The return of exhibitions - a further poll

[PhilJ W]

5 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

I saw a great mask sign today, outside a shop.

 

”Please wear a mask in this shop.

 

If you are not wearing a mask, I will have to take your temperature before you come in, and I only have one, RECTAL, thermometer.”

 

 

I'm borrowing that and posting it on another thread. (If thats OK).

[Nearholmer]

44 minutes ago, Bomag said:

From the 19th this will go and you should be able to identify high risk locations by the measures they need to apply to be safe.

Hmmm, I’m not convinced.

 

I think that now, and after 19th, the indicators of high risk are the same: indoors; poorly ventilated; busy with lots of people; few/no masks being worn; people talking loudly or shouting; profile of people present makes for a low likelihood of them being vaccinated; lots of physical contact between people; etc.

 

A student union bar in ‘normal’ mode might top the list; standing alone in the middle of a big field, in a howling gale might be near the bottom (you can still do internet shopping, if there’s a phone signal).

 

As for risk assessment in the sorts of environments we are talking about, the manager/owner is very likely to focus on controlling risks to the staff (very obvious H&SaW obligation), and merely to following any prescriptive law (there won’t be any), with maybe, but only maybe, some diligence around “duty of care” to customers.

 

Might create a curious position legally, because an obvious risk will exist in a climate where HMG have effectively said “none of our business to legislate to control this risk; over to you”. It could be that branches of government themselves will set benchmarks that then get cited in legal cases, so maybe if job centres dispense with all precautions that will signal to everyone else that’s OK, whereas if they insist on mask-wearing, it will signal that shops should do the same. The first time a shop owner is sued for costs arising from failure to do obvious things to protect a customer will be interesting.

[APOLLO]

Crazy times indeed. More than fed up, overfed statistics, graphs, opinions. it's all getting silly now.

 

Anyway, I'm double jabbed and tomorrow, I'm

 

 

With my mask and sanitiser !!!!

 

Brit15

[bradfordbuffer]

13 hours ago, Solo said:

 

Yes - FFP3 medical-grade masks as used by healthcare professionals.  Pricey and unfortunately disposable but will protect the wearer.  Problem with the mask rule in the UK is of course that it was always just 'face coverings'.  A random piece of cloth or those disposable blue 'surgical'-type masks that you see so many people with (and should be banned) do very little for both wearer or those around them.  The blue disposable ones are good for about half an hour before they need to be binned and added to the growing worldwide mask-mountain.

 

I will be ditching my mask as soon as the law allows but you're right in that if there are those that wish to continue wearing for personal protection then you would need to be thinking about something that actually gives you protection.

 

 

Rather off-topic but yes, they're my regular commute - certainly on the firm side but I like Azumas in general - clean and spacious with very nice loos!

Have you seen the color of some blue masks?.....I must say as a observation the over 60s population....thay look like they gave been raking out mortar with a angle grinder on a building site for a month....defo covid safe....more harm than good....plenty of life in it yet there 50 each!....

(although a local corner shop was flogging them for 1.50 each..do hope he bought 50 plus boxes as thay are now selling at 50p...soon to be worth.....5p)Ò

[Bomag]

1 hour ago, Widnes Model Centre said:

 

If you decide to visit our shop, please let me know. We will dim the lights in case you are dazzled and fall over the Humbrol stand.

 

Stay Safe and Well 

 

You seem to be mistaking defuse illumination for veiling luminance while in search of wit. Getting back to exhibitions if managers are looking to keep halls cool  and pleasant, decent low power layout lighting which provides good, even, illumination may be less of an issue than for the radiator like spots which provide a lot of glare, a lot heat and not much clarity.   

[Widnes Model Centre]

4 minutes ago, Bomag said:

 

You seem to be mistaking defuse illumination for veiling luminance while in search of wit. Getting back to exhibitions if managers are looking to keep halls cool  and pleasant, decent low power layout lighting which provides good, even, illumination may be less of an issue than for the radiator like spots which provide a lot of glare, a lot heat and not much clarity.   

 

I have a sense of humour which l apply in my everyday life’. Keeps me going, being light hearted.

 

You seem to be a leading light on this subject and l bow to your knowledge.

[Nearholmer]

Diffuse, rather than de-fuse. Electric lights won’t work if the fuse is taken out.

[Barry O]

There are some posters on here who have been very negative about life during and post covid lockdown. If you don't want to go to an exhibition.. fine.. but stop being so negative. I and many others intend to organise and attend exhibitions. Our venue has had lots of precautions in place (and have never closed all the way through the pandemic). Layouts are over 1m from the vieweers and we have very wide aisles. Sanitisation stations will be available. Wear a mask by all means.. and if we have to check temperatures or ask for proof of jabs by law we will do so.

 

So..if you don't want to go stop spoiling it for those who do!

 

Andy has aked some very good questions, some negative comments on here donline up with what the results show.

Baz

[grahame]

9 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

The first time a shop owner is sued for costs arising from failure to do obvious things to protect a customer will be interesting.

 

I suspect that the possibility of identifying and proving where and when someone catches covid might be very difficult and make the chances of successful litigation unlikely. They seem to be struggling to pin down responsibility for tennants safety in the Grenfell enquiry.

 

 

[Nearholmer]

I think you’re right, but grief can cause people to go to extraordinary lengths to pin the responsibility for the death of a loved one on a particular party. It would be a civil, not a criminal, case, so no CPS in the chain to prevent a very thin case getting to court.

 

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Bernard Lamb]

20 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

I suspect that the possibility of identifying and proving where and when someone catches covid might be very difficult and make the chances of successful litigation unlikely. They seem to be struggling to pin down responsibility for tennants safety in the Grenfell enquiry.

 

 

Unless you are in Australia.

Bernard

[PhilJ W]

I for one intend to visit a few shows when they are up and running. With that in mind I have ordered some surgical standard masks and will be wearing them. I will check carefully the precautions taken by show organisers before deciding to attend that show. 

[GoingUnderground]

47 minutes ago, Barry O said:

There are some posters on here who have been very negative about life during and post covid lockdown. If you don't want to go to an exhibition.. fine.. but stop being so negative. I and many others intend to organise and attend exhibitions. Our venue has had lots of precautions in place (and have never closed all the way through the pandemic). Layouts are over 1m from the vieweers and we have very wide aisles. Sanitisation stations will be available. Wear a mask by all means.. and if we have to check temperatures or ask for proof of jabs by law we will do so.

 

So..if you don't want to go stop spoiling it for those who do!

 

Andy has aked some very good questions, some negative comments on here donline up with what the results show.

Baz

As I, and others, have said, attending exhibitions is not something that I currently want to do because of the risk as I see it to me and my family. That is simply a statement of my intentions, nothing more, nothing less.

 

I've been through nearly 16 months of lockdown, near lockdown and social distancing, like everyone else. I've given up much, much more than just getting to model railway shows. Members of my family are hospital doctors one of whom had Covid in Spring 2020 and took almost 2 months to get over it despite being fit and healthy and in their early 30s. I've seen very little of them in person in the last 16 months because they are in daily contact with patients any one of whom could be asymptomatic, and they don't want to run the risk of giving me or my wife covid because of our ages and health.

 

I'm not going to blow it all now just for the sake of getting to a show or a similar event in the near future when things are still so uncertain.

 

I can't see how anything that I've said here or earlier can in anyway be taken as being "negative" or "spoiling it" for others.

 

Go ahead and organise a show, or go to shows organised by others if you feel that the risks are acceptable to you, I won't stop you.

[Barry O]

1 hour ago, GoingUnderground said:

 

I can't see how anything that I've said here or earlier can in anyway be taken as being "negative" or "spoiling it" for others.

 

I can't see that I named you as one of those being negative. Attendance is not mandatory and I  would not like to see that happen which, obviously , it won't.

 

Baz

[GoingUnderground]

2 minutes ago, Barry O said:

I can't see that I named you as one of those being negative. Attendance is not mandatory and I  would not like to see that happen which, obviously , it won't.

 

Baz

You didn't name anyone. 

 

Your comment "If you don't want to go to an exhibition...fine... but stop being so negative." made it very clear to me at any rate that it did apply to me as I am one of those who have previously said that I won't be going to shows, which, incidentally, applies to all shows, not just model railway ones. Only this morning I turned down an invitation to go to a tribute band gig later this year.

 

Oh, and I'm so pleased that attendance will remain voluntary. 

[bradfordbuffer]

33 minutes ago, GoingUnderground said:

You didn't name anyone. 

 

Your comment "If you don't want to go to an exhibition...fine... but stop being so negative." made it very clear to me at any rate that it did apply to me as I am one of those who have previously said that I won't be going to shows, which, incidentally, applies to all shows, not just model railway ones. Only this morning I turned down an invitation to go to a tribute band gig later this year.

 

Oh, and I'm so pleased that attendance will remain voluntary. 

I think we are all on a 65ft turntable caught in the wind!...(as we all going round in circles! )please choose a siding to shunt in to and drop the fire box and cool down!....remember for most of us it's just a hobby...for some it's a living!

G

[Gilbert]

Is the lock countdown clock ticking....?

Edited July 7, 2021 by Gilbert

[Phatbob]

13 hours ago, APOLLO said:

Crazy times indeed. More than fed up, overfed statistics, graphs, opinions. it's all getting silly now.

 

Anyway, I'm double jabbed and tomorrow, I'm

 

 

With my mask and sanitiser !!!!

 

Brit15

Goin' "Daarn tha Pub" in the Black Country by the look of it.  I recognised some of those venues. :-)

 

[SamThomas]

[Not Jeremy]

If Warley happens this year, which I hope it does, then I will definitely be attending with Wild Swan Books.

 

I am booked in and very much hoping that the show takes place. If it does then I look forward to meeting with and talking to as many folk over the weekend as is possible.  Whether it is busy or quiet, no matter how much money I do or don't take, it will be just great to be back there. I will be, and am, very grateful to all of the organisers for all of their hard work - no doubt all made more difficult and challenging by the prevailing situation. 

 

What I will most definitely not be doing is worrying myself witless about what might or might not happen, as some folk appear to be. I am very grateful to have been double jabbed, have read the statistics, listened to news reports and am happy with the situation.

 

Of course there is a risk. "Zero risk" is about as likely as perpetual motion, although some of the pointless drivelling and pontificating guff in this thread would appear to challenge this notion.

 

I will very much miss seeing Owen Gibbon and will be remembering him with affection.

 

I absolutely respect anyone else who makes any different judgment, and will quite understand if I don't see some people there at all, or perhaps some folk still wearing masks. I will not feel any need to comment on anyone else's behaviour, just keeping myself together and going hopefully forwards is quite challenging enough for me.

 

Finally, it absolutely astonishes me to read that the exercising of one's personal judgement rather than being told what to do by the state is seen by some folk as "being cast to the Lions".

 

History rather indicates the opposite I think.

 

Simon

 

OK Barry, can I have that packet of gobstoppers now....

Edited July 7, 2021 by Not Jeremy
missing word

[AY Mod]

A balanced perspective from Simon there making a suitable point to close this off.

[AY Mod]

The months have moved on and I'm looking from the sidelines at this weekend's GETS event in Milton Keynes as a barometer for how people think or feel.

 

From https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/161359-great-electric-train-show-2021/&do=findComment&comment=4593122 this image is enlightening.

 

 

Obviously I can't say if that's high or low in attendance terms but there are a number of people to make observations upon.

 

Mask wearing seems low.

Distancing seems minimal.

Barriers, or not, seem to be positioned as traditional.

 

The points are not raised to criticise the event but to observe behaviour. From a personal perspective, having maintained caution and precaution, I ask myself if I would feel comfortable with the behaviours evident?

 

[BMacdermott]

Hello Andy

 

I attended with Advance Ticket this morning.

 

I wore a mask inside - except for a few moments where it was easier to speak to someone on a stand, where I was 'distanced' anyway.

 

I was surprised how few masks were in evidence. 

 

I didn't go anywhere in the hall that was 'crowded' although - being an early bird - there wasn't much crowding in evidence anyway. 

 

I was out by 10.00am (before 'normal' opening time) as I have to match hobby with 'caring duties'. As is usual, I was fully focussed on seeing the handful of layouts that I wanted to see.  And they were well worth my entrance fee!

 

As I left, cars were queueing to get in, so I guess it got busier later.

 

Brian

[woodenhead]

24 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

The points are not raised to criticise the event but to observe behaviour. From a personal perspective, having maintained caution and precaution, I ask myself if I would feel comfortable with the behaviours evident?

 

It's interesting when trying to gauge the actual risk of infection.

 

The Government messaging throughout the pandemic was 'stay apart', it was drilled into us and we as a result became careful.  When the country unlocked, the messaging was still evident albeit turned down but there has not been any (and I don't expect there will be) messaging to say that we're all now at less risk and just treat it carefully.  So our brains are still in the 'danger' mode and it will take time for it to rationalise that we're not all infected with Covid and everyone has to be a couple of metres from you.

 

I have stopped mask wearing but I do not spend time drinking in pubs, never in clubs and I don't go to festivals which I consider high risk, really the only place I now come into contact with people is at the supermarket and sometimes in restaurants both of which I consider low risk environments.

 

Put me on a train though full of people and I do become more aware of people around me, the short hop I had to suffer between Oxford Rd and Piccadilly last month had my wife in a bit of a panic and I had to remind both myself and her it was just going to be 2 minutes (should have walked it and picked up the train at Piccadilly maybe).  I was going to go to GETS, but I couldn't get a cheap seat (which I may or may not then have upgraded) to make the journey and if it was a full train I am not sure I would have wanted to do the journey.  For Stafford I am contemplating doing a stopper to Crewe and an LM service to Stafford rather than put myself on a Cross Country service which will be packed.

 

For some reason, perhaps because I haven't tested myself in the environment, I see the people who would come to GETS as being in the lower risk categories of passing it on and may actually feel comfortable once I am there, it's the travel I am unsure of.

[PhilJ W]

I have only visited outdoor events during the summer with the exception of a local swap meet that wasn't very crowded. There were very few masks being worn and a few groups hovering around.