Mol_PMB Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 I'm modelling the mid to late 1960s, and trying to get the livery details right on some BR wagons. At the moment I'm building a couple of HIGHFITs (ex soda-ash type) but this question is much more general. By the end of the 1960s, most wagons seem to have a painted panel with maintenance data on it. Usually it is a black panel with white lettering toward the right-hand end of the wagon. The style of these panels varies a fair bit. Here is one of Paul Bartlett's photos which shows an example quite clearly, on a wagon which otherwise has much of its original lettering: https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/bropenmerchandisesteel/e99ce088 This one seems to have two such panels; possibly one of them is for another purpose: https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/bropenmerchandisesteel/e547da11 I have seen photos from 1968 showing these panels, such as this one: https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/bropenmerchandisesteel/e180ac523 But here's a 1967 photo without a panel: https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/bropenmerchandisesteel/e33f52ef So, some questions which I hope someone knowledgable can help me with? - In which year were these panels first introduced (as a policy)? - After the policy decision, if they were first applied when each wagon next came into works for maintenance, roughly what were the maintenance intervals? - Or in other words, how long did it take for them to be applied to most wagons? For bonus points, a follow-up question: - What are the yellow rectangular stickers visible on some of the wagons above, and perhaps more clearly on this one? https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/bropenmerchandisesteel/e13951d06 Any info much appreciated. Best Regards, Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted July 1, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 1, 2021 From our good friends on the GCR; https://quornwagonandwagon.co.uk/features/ Mike. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted July 1, 2021 Author Share Posted July 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said: From our good friends on the GCR; https://quornwagonandwagon.co.uk/features/ Mike. Wonderful! Even scoring the bonus point. Many thanks for the link. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 2, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 2, 2021 4 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said: From our good friends on the GCR; https://quornwagonandwagon.co.uk/features/ Mike. Alas some of the information given on that site is incorrect. What they refer to r to as the 'HMLE sticker' was introduced as the Wagon Data Panel as part of the new national Freight Train Loads system introduced in 1968. It had nothing to do with with the presence of two different braking systems but provided the information needed to calculate the load (in tons), available continuous brake power, and maximum permitted speed of the wagon in its various states of loading. The XP marking remained in use until October 1972 (having been revised but still in use, as late as March 1971). The Data Panel on its own did not replace the XP marking as one critical item was not included on it - the wagon's wheelbase. As can be seen on the GCR link that remained shown separately towards the right hand end of the wagon. The only part the Data Panel played if it was on a vehicle which was permitted to be attached to a passenger train is that it showed the maximum speed at which that vehicle was permitted to run instead of the previous blanket restrictions of speed applicable to various vehicles marked XP. The big difference from October 1972 was that the end of the XP system coupled with a revised Instruction totally banned the conveyance on passenger trains of vehicles with a wheelbase of less than 15ft. 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted July 2, 2021 Author Share Posted July 2, 2021 (edited) Many thanks! So to summarise: The offical lettering style remained pretty constant from 1948 to 1963, as illustrated on the GCR page. When looking at photos, if there is a symbol under the tare weight it indicates which year the wagon was painted, which may be a useful nugget of information. The official lettering style changed in 1964, with the information grouped into a box. This change seems to have been implemented very slowly, with many wagons still carrying the previous style into the late 1970s. The black maintenance data panel was also introduced in 1964: again it grouped existing information into a box, but that information had previously been scattered around the underframe and had been less visible. Based on photos it was implemented a bit more quickly with the majority of the wagons having this by 1968/9. The yellow wagon data panel sticker was introduced in 1968. It seems to have been applied across the fleet pretty quickly, but with much variation in the position of the sticker. Many more changes were introduced in the early 1970s including changing then abandoning the XP system, metric tare weights, TOPS codes etc. Fortunately, that's well outside my time period. Edited July 2, 2021 by Mol_PMB clarification 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted July 2, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said: Many more changes were introduced in the early 1970s including changing then abandoning the XP system, metric tare weights, TOPS codes etc. Fortunately, that's well outside my time period. Me and you both! Mike. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 (edited) The boxed style lettering was first introduced very early in 1963, not 1964. There are some examples of it in the April 1963 Modern Railways in an article by Brian Haresnape 'Towards a B.R. "House Style". Incidentally it was at this same time that the short-lived 'freight arrow' symbol was introduced along with yellow for collection and delivery vehicles (e.g. Scammel Scarabs) and Ice Blue replaced white for insulated vans and containers. Edited July 2, 2021 by BernardTPM 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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