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Shapeways Post BREXIT - A nasty surprise


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The limit for the supplier collecting that VAT is actually €150. At todays exchange rate (at the time of writing) that's about £128.50. Suppliers may, of course, use a less favourable exchange rate to cover their bank or payment processor's  fees.

 

The limit is €150 as that is the EU duty free limit. Above that anything imported into the EU will be assessed for both duty and VAT. There is no mechanism for pre-payment of duty.

 

See Nick C reply below. 

Edited by Crosland
Completely wrong
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10 minutes ago, Crosland said:

The limit for the supplier collecting that VAT is actually €150. At todays exchange rate (at the time of writing) that's about £128.50. Suppliers may, of course, use a less favourable exchange rate to cover their bank or payment processor's  fees.

 

The limit is €150 as that is the EU duty free limit. Above that anything imported into the EU will be assessed for both duty and VAT. There is no mechanism for pre-payment of duty.

Nope, it's £135, as the discussion is about items being imported into the UK, not the EU - https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty. It'd be €150 for stuff going the other way.

 

 

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20 hours ago, Mike Harvey said:

I must be missing something here. As far as I can see every item in a Shapeways shop has a price which is clearly stated. The price applies for sales into any market. What happens after that is that shipping costs are added, and then tax applied, or not, depending on the tax regime of the destination country. One tip is that if the items are being shipped from the Netherlands (as happens for most European destinations) it is best to view the prices in euros for an accurate picture of what the total price is, because the charge will be in euros. Like HMRC and many other businesses, I believe that Shapeways adjusts the exchange rates for displayed prices once per month, so sometimes the conversion from the displayed price makes the item apparently more or less expensive depending on the relative movement between euros and the user-chosen price display currency.

 

Brexit FAQ – Help Center (shapeways.com)

I don't object to Shapeways, or anybody else, showing a price in local currency in the manner you suggest but what should be made clear is that the price does not include local taxation rates in  the customer's country if they are - in this instance - shopping from somewhere outside the EU.   The need is to make clear to the customer exactly what the price does or does not include and blanket comments such 'do not include local s taxes and shipping' makes little sense, and even more so where they are able to charge VAT on UK purchases below a certain level but not above it.  So all they need to say is VAT/sales tax at your local rate has been added to your' order or that it has not been included and will be collected by an agent in your home country.

 

It is of course illegal to advertise VAT exclusive prices in the UK unless it is made precisely, and very obviously, clear that VAT, ata particular rate, is not included.  However it is not quite so clear cut when it comes to prices shown on the internet the big problem there being the method of enforcement which is less than clear when compared with a price shown in a shop or in a magazine advert etc.  However the natural assumption can be that as we are used to seeing, as the norm, VAT inclusive prices in the UK then any price we see quoted in £s will include VAT.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I just received my order via shapeways from order to receiving it took 5 days the price quoted out of that it was about £13 shipping they said 6th August it come from Netherlands.

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On 05/07/2021 at 14:32, Nick C said:

Nope, it's £135, as the discussion is about items being imported into the UK, not the EU - https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty. It'd be €150 for stuff going the other way.

 

 

That was only up the the first of July. Now there is no minimum annount before taxes are added: http://www.wcoomd.org/en/media/newsroom/2021/june/the-european-union-introduces-new-value-added-tax-rules-for-e-commerce-from-1-july-202.aspx  quote :

 

"First, VAT will now have to be applied on all goods that are sold online in the EU regardless of their price. The current VAT de minimis threshold of 22 EUR will no longer be applied. Studies and experience have shown that the de minimis exemption is being abused with even goods such as smartphones being declared at a value less than 22 EUR. The new rule means that from 1 July 2021 VAT will have to be charged on all goods entering the EU, ensuring a level playing field for EU businesses."

 

Trust me. I have already been charged vat on a package costing £6. VAT in Denmark is 25% so that was £1.50 + a £20 piracy 'handlingcharge'. I chose to let them throw the package away.

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28 minutes ago, Vistisen said:

That was only up the the first of July. Now there is no minimum annount before taxes are added: http://www.wcoomd.org/en/media/newsroom/2021/june/the-european-union-introduces-new-value-added-tax-rules-for-e-commerce-from-1-july-202.aspx  quote :

 

"First, VAT will now have to be applied on all goods that are sold online in the EU regardless of their price. The current VAT de minimis threshold of 22 EUR will no longer be applied. Studies and experience have shown that the de minimis exemption is being abused with even goods such as smartphones being declared at a value less than 22 EUR. The new rule means that from 1 July 2021 VAT will have to be charged on all goods entering the EU, ensuring a level playing field for EU businesses."

 

Trust me. I have already been charged vat on a package costing £6. VAT in Denmark is 25% so that was £1.50 + a £20 piracy 'handlingcharge'. I chose to let them throw the package away.

Again though, that's going the other way; the discussion here is for stuff coming into the UK. Imports into the UK (from anywhere, including Denmark) should be charged VAT at source when they're under £135, and by HMRC upon import over that. I've just ordered £125 of stuff from the US, assuming I don't get charged anything then I'll place a couple more £125 orders as it's cheaper than one larger order!

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Prior to Brexit, the price of Shapeways included 21 per cent Dutch VAT. Now Shapeways sells its products without Dutch VAT to the UK, but now the buyer has to pay 20% UK VAT at the border. Theoretically, the price is now one percent cheaper than before. If you buy something from Finland, the benefit is even greater, because Finnish VAT is 24%. :)  I do not know whether you have to pay customs in addition to the tax. In the post-Brexit period, I will have to pay 3.7% duty at Finnish border in addition to VAT if I buy BA screws in the UK. On the other hand, there is no need to pay customs duties on model railway equipment coming from UK.

 

Petri Sallinen

Helsinki, Finland

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There is an extensive discussion on buying and selling between Great Britain and the EU on the German Railways section of RM Web - VAT, duties, carriers' charges and conformity assessment -  if you want to become thoroughly frustrated or depressed... 

 

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On 02/08/2021 at 10:21, Petri Sallinen said:

Prior to Brexit, the price of Shapeways included 21 per cent Dutch VAT. Now Shapeways sells its products without Dutch VAT to the UK, but now the buyer has to pay 20% UK VAT at the border. Theoretically, the price is now one percent cheaper than before. If you buy something from Finland, the benefit is even greater, because Finnish VAT is 24%. :)  I do not know whether you have to pay customs in addition to the tax. In the post-Brexit period, I will have to pay 3.7% duty at Finnish border in addition to VAT if I buy BA screws in the UK. On the other hand, there is no need to pay customs duties on model railway equipment coming from UK.

 

Petri Sallinen

Helsinki, Finland

Again, depends on value. No VAT (or anything) due at the UK border for orders under £135. 

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On 28/07/2021 at 21:23, col.stephens said:

 

Actually, outside the Savoy Hotel in Savoy Court, off London's Strand, vehicles do drive on the right.  Apparently, it is the only road in the UK where vehicles do so.

We also drive on the right at certain parts of Portsmouth Docks. Entering the wharf requires you to drive on the right. Apparently, it's do with French drivers.......

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On 03/09/2021 at 04:59, tomparryharry said:

We also drive on the right at certain parts of Portsmouth Docks. Entering the wharf requires you to drive on the right. Apparently, it's do with French drivers.......

There is a roundabout just outside Farnham where you drive on the right on one of the roads joining / leaving it.


Roy 

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14 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

There is a roundabout just outside Farnham where you drive on the right on one of the roads joining / leaving it.


Roy 

Not only that, but also use the innermost lane of the roundabout to access it...

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I last ordered from SW 30th Nov 2020. Just for grins, I thought I would try and make the same order again today.

 

Only 1 item available - Guy Rixon has removed his products due to the spiralling costs. Don't blame him.

 

Prices are before tax and  the 10% discount that was offered last year and today.

 

So, if I were to order the one item - last year it was EUR20.14

 

Shipping for that one item and 3 other items - EUR8.54

 

Today - the one item EUR27.42 and the shipping on JUST that one item - EUR17.99

 

To coin a phrase, I don't believe it! They add the 20% tax at the point of sale so the shippers won't be charging a brokerage fee - so the product has increased by over 30% and shipping a little over 200%.

 

I think I'll pass.

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12 hours ago, Bucoops said:

I last ordered from SW 30th Nov 2020. Just for grins, I thought I would try and make the same order again today.

 

Only 1 item available - Guy Rixon has removed his products due to the spiralling costs. Don't blame him.

 

Prices are before tax and  the 10% discount that was offered last year and today.

 

So, if I were to order the one item - last year it was EUR20.14

 

Shipping for that one item and 3 other items - EUR8.54

 

Today - the one item EUR27.42 and the shipping on JUST that one item - EUR17.99

 

To coin a phrase, I don't believe it! They add the 20% tax at the point of sale so the shippers won't be charging a brokerage fee - so the product has increased by over 30% and shipping a little over 200%.

 

I think I'll pass.

 

Buy your own printer, Martin on Templot has just bought one for £90 and has added a video link to a clip demonstrating it.

 

I am really surprised there are no professional local alternative to Shapeways giving a cheaper service

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32 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

Buy your own printer, Martin on Templot has just bought one for £90 and has added a video link to a clip demonstrating it.

 

I am really surprised there are no professional local alternative to Shapeways giving a cheaper service

 

If I needed lots I would consider it - I only really looked on shapeways because of the 10% discount, but was fully expecting it to be far too expensive. Wasn't expecting that much of a jump though!

 

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It really is a shame as the prices of things become to the point of not being economic. I'd love to buy some of the printed SECR railmotor bodies but at nearly 80 for one with no frames, or bogies just puts them way above what I could afford, @rue-d-etropal does great designs but the changes with Shapeways means they will always have to be a wish., especially when the page says 78 which is a lot and in the basket its then 93, how does that work? It becomes with postage over 200 for two coach bodies and then bits on top.

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It's interesting to see that in the wargaming/fantasy world buying and trading print files seems to be the norm and implies widespread printer ownership, or at least access to one. 

 

There seems to be several firms offering print files for sale on a commercial basis. 

 

I can't help thinking the Shapeways business  model will rapidly become outmoded (thankfully!). 

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On 01/12/2021 at 09:45, hayfield said:

I am really surprised there are no professional local alternative to Shapeways giving a cheaper service

 

17 hours ago, Argos said:

I can't help thinking the Shapeways business  model will rapidly become outmoded (thankfully!). 

 

The cheap Chinese printers have more or less killed off the one-off model market. The likes of Shapeways have been moving into the B2B market for sometime, especially promoting low volume production in the 10-1000 unit range. There is a commercial advantage of being able to dedicate a complete build to a single order, rather than having to label and sort multiple, ie 50+, orders that can be printed in a single build. 

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Bill

 

Thanks for the information/thoughts. Looking at the way Templot is going finding a commercial source who can print the chairs especially and the track bases will be very useful, these very cheap printers may ? be useful for the bases but are not good enough at the moment for chairs

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Shapeways has always been expensive because they act as the shop front. So their %age has to be built in.

Recently I had cause to order some stuff and the seller was posting his private email address online. I contacted him privately and got what I wanted at around half of what it would have cost me via shapeways. 

On the basis that he doesn't have an excusivity deal with shapeways, I had no qualms about doing this.

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