Inspiration sought: 6x4 OO gauge tail-chaser, but high degree of realism!

[Andrew D]

Hi folks, I’ve searched multiple permutations of what I’m after in the search box but keep drawing a blank.

 

Basically, I’ve scaled my ‘big layout’ plans right back to a mere 6x4 board in the spare room. I love running my old (and new) OO gauge stock and I’m sick of the faff of setting it all up on the kitchen floor - not to mention the fact that I’m getting a bit old to get down there! 

 

My plan is to make the layout as realistic as possible (Code 75 track, electrofrog, high degree of realism) despite the sharp curves (min radius 3). Let’s face it, even most smooth curves on any continuous loop layout are normally way tighter than in real life. 

 

I’m seeking inspiration, and am all ears for anyone who has built or knows of any layouts that fit this bill that are on RM Web or elsewhere accessible. I know ‘Porth Emmet’ by Chris Nevard very well. It inspired me to emulate the style in N gauge with my layout Dale Green, but now I regret the coarse code 80 track and insulfrog Setrack points. 

 

I also enjoy ‘Havant Aclew’ which morphed into ‘Parstiche’ on YouTube - a great example of refurbishing an old 6x4 train set to a high scenic standard. 

 

If anyone knows of any other layouts like this, please suggest them! 

 

Many thanks, 

 

Andrew 

 

PS Mods - if have asked this in the wrong sub-forum, please move! 

 

 

[Matt]

I would strongly recommend looking at some of Paul Lunns layout designs in Model Rail. He did a series in past year on 6x4 layout ideas which I thought were very inspiring. M

[PMP]

One worth looking at is Bredon which was used by Peco as an example of creating a realistic looking model on a 6x4’ base. 
 

One issue you will immediately face if using Cd75 electrofrog track is that the streamline geometry doesn’t match set track geometry, the streamline being larger radii. This means  a plan designed for set track to fit 6x4, will highly likely require a larger footprint to accommodate it.

[Andrew D]

59 minutes ago, PMP said:

One worth looking at is Bredon which was used by Peco as an example of creating a realistic looking model on a 6x4’ base. 
 

One issue you will immediately face if using Cd75 electrofrog track is that the streamline geometry doesn’t match set track geometry, the streamline being larger radii. This means  a plan designed for set track to fit 6x4, will highly likely require a larger footprint to accommodate it.

 

Thanks PMP, will check that out. I appreciate that I’ll get fewer points/turnouts and a shorter runaround loop etc in the space provided, but for the main circle curves I intend to use a 533mm radius Tracksetta template which is half way between radius 3 (505mm) and radius 4 (571.5mm). If that doesn’t work I’ll have to go down to the smallest Tracksetta at 457mm, between R2 and R3. I’ve already got the points from an abandoned planned layout so I’ve had a tinker with part of the plan. 

[PMP]

8 minutes ago, Andrew D said:

 

Thanks PMP, will check that out. I appreciate that I’ll get fewer points/turnouts and a shorter runaround loop etc in the space provided, but for the main circle curves I intend to use a 533mm radius Tracksetta template which is half way between radius 3 (505mm) and radius 4 (571.5mm). If that doesn’t work I’ll have to go down to the smallest Tracksetta at 457mm, between R2 and R3. I’ve already got the points from an abandoned planned layout so I’ve had a tinker with part of the plan. 

A good way of ‘making’ more space is using curved points to extend loops for example, they also break the monotony of designs purely based on L/R turnouts. The streamline track will work fine down to R2 and using tracksetta or similar templates will aid good track alignment. You’ve not mentioned what locomotives you’ll be using, but many RTR models these days now recommended R2 as the minimum, so if you can go larger than that, your running will potentially be better, as well as it’s appearance 

Edited July 2, 2021 by PMP

[shanks522]

Hi Andrew, 

 

 take a look at Steve farmers lymebrook yard, it’s N gauge but I think very doable in 00 gauge. 
 

 

Graham 

 

 

[Andrew D]

23 minutes ago, PMP said:

A good way of ‘making’ more space is using curved points to extend loops for example, they also break the monotony of designs purely based on L/R turnouts. The streamline track will work fine down to R2 and using tracksetta or similar templates will aid good track alignment. You’ve not mentioned what locomotives you’ll be using, but many RTR models these days now recommended R2 as the minimum, so if you can go larger than that, your running will potentially be better, as well as it’s appearance 

 
I’ve just spent a VERY pleasant half hour down a rabbit hole watching YouTube videos of Bredon - thanks again for the suggestion @PMP
 

I would love to use curved points, but IMHO the setrack ones have way too large a gap at the frog, and the streamline ones are too gentle for my purposes. Although I get what you mean if they are used at the ‘end’ of the curve, where you’d have a shorter straight section to compensate (but slightly longer loops). 
 

The problem I’m experiencing with setrack isn’t so much the dead frog, it’s wheels falling into the frog, which is what leads to stalling. This even happens on Bredon I noticed, but the current owner uses DCC and stayalives to remedy. I want to stick to DC.
 

Locos will be mostly 0-6-0s, Bo-Bos or smaller. My Bachmann 4MT 2-6-4 even struggles on radius 3, it cannot handle setrack r2 points, but it’s a little better now it’s run in. 
 

 

[SRman]

Here are a few of my thoughts. Please treat them as my own personal views and accept or reject them as suits your own views and expectations.

It is possible to get some interesting operation into a small space, but there will always have to be compromises. One thing I would suggest of at all possible is to add a few inches onto the 4 foot width - that way you have room for radius 4 track with a little margin to spare at the edges. I worked on 4' 3" for the wider ends on my own dumbbell shaped layout for this reason.

Also, as suggested above, curved points may help, but not the tight set track ones which are nominally radius 2 but actually a bit tighter in places. On a previous layout, I found some Roco curved points that bridged various larger radii, with the radius 3 to 4 ones being of particular use to me. They were code 83, but easily blended into my code 100 track with a little packing under them; for code 75 track, the packing would have to be under the approaches to the points on the plain track.

If at all possible, use transition curves. These will help disguise the tighter radii and reduce the end throws of coaches.

You may already have stock you wish to use, but again, if at all possible, try to keep to shorter rolling stock as this will reduce end and centre throws. Even the real railways had to do this on certain lines (thinking here of the Moorgate 'widened' lines, where 57' or 59' passenger stock or DMUs were the usual limit). Short trains would be the order of the day.

If you are any good at gradients, a folded figure-8 formation allows for a much longer run, but will then cause compromises on the lengths and shapes of sidings.

[Andrew D]

Some useful tips there, thanks @SRman  If anyone needs me today, you’ll find me down a rabbit hole researching Roco track

Edited July 3, 2021 by Andrew D

[Metropolitan H]

I can't help with a direct 4mm scale plan, but I do have an "0" gauge double track layout in-build, in a 11ft 6 in x 7ft 6in room - which is sort of equivalent, when you divide by 7 and multiply by 4. It is of course "Coarse Scale" modern tinplate etc. and a close relative of Nearholmer's "Birlstone" and "Paltry Circus" - see "Deliberately Old-Fashioned 0 Scale" topic in "7mm+ modelling".

 

 

As yet I'm enjoying running trains on bare boards - scenic development is to come. It will all (what I can get in without it being too cramped) be very urban - but one of my favourites sdets of trains are the Metropolitan ones and LNER "Widened Lines" types.

 

Maximum sensible train lengths - that can just be accomodated in any of the 3 storage loops - is a Met Bo-Bo (or similar length) loco plus 4x 35cm (50 foot equivalent) coaches.

 

 

 

But sometimes the big engines come out to play - but are limited to three coach trains, or just circulating for fun.

 

 

Finally - Note that there are no reverse curves on this layout, which saves bother and you have to view it from the inside!

 

Regards

Chris H

 

 

[Andrew D]

Looks like a lot of fun @Metropolitan H - exactly what I'm after too. Cheers! 

[Andrew D]

Parking a couple of YouTube videos I have found here mostly for my own reference, but also for anyone else interested in this kind of thing. 

 

I found one 6 x 4 layout from about 6 years ago, so the upload quality/resolution isn't as good as it would be today, but what is interesting about this layout is the use of Streamline turnouts. This chap has used the curved Streamline points as was suggested to me, and the necessity of a tight curve before and after them does somewhat negate the effect. I'll definitely be giving the Roco ones a look. 

 

 

 

The other channel I very much enjoy is KV12543 - which started as the renovation of Havant Aclew, and has developed into Parstiche. This is my favourite video of Keith's, showing some Southern running on Havant Aclew. Enjoy!