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Tavistock (GWR)


John Brenchley
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8 hours ago, John Brenchley said:

Hi Andy

 

Thanks for your kind  comments on the Tavistock goods shed model.

 

The only information I can find about cranes in goods yards comes from the publication "Great Western Way" which states on page 169 of the 2009 edition that "Cranes, where installed, were medium grey".

 

Hopefully, this helps, though I'm not sure of the definition of "medium grey".

 

Best wishes

 

John

John, I saw this in GW Way but equally there a good few photos showing interior goods shed cranes in white with black metalwork. I wonder if the book really just means external yard cranes?

Along these sort of lines:

https://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=663&forum_id=14

and

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3043812

For the moment I am going black and white which seems more in tune with GWR shed interiors but am aware the links above are not to GWR sheds?

Also I have to confess my crane (as per my thread) is really a very approximate representation!

regards

Andy

ps - have now found a picture in "GWR Branch Line Modelling" by S williams that supports the grey colour all over but it appears to be quite a dark colour, though it is a B&W photo - ho hum.

Edited by Andy Keane
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I'm not with my books right now, but black and white would surprise me a bit. I've only ever seen grey, or a dark uniform shade for the timber cranes. Are the photos you've seen from GWR sheds? Otherwise I think you're safe with the famous "medium grey".

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  • 4 weeks later...

Such water tanks often did have a lid, this would be just two or three pieces of steel angle or similar across the top supporting with wooden planks.

A hatch was fitted at the point the ladder goes to for access.  Over time the hatch could be missing along with some or most of the boards.

 

Pete

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Would there not be an overflow pipe to prevent over-filling?

 

Here is my attempt. I really must get around to fitting the outlet and hose on the wall so my Terriers can actually top up. However, this side is not normally visible.

 

water_tower_1s.jpg.3e807c5c6c9f10bb549872275c9e05f0.jpg

 

Edited by Ian Morgan
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17 hours ago, IWCR said:

Such water tanks often did have a lid, this would be just two or three pieces of steel angle or similar across the top supporting with wooden planks.

A hatch was fitted at the point the ladder goes to for access.  Over time the hatch could be missing along with some or most of the boards.

 

Pete

 

That's very interesting thanks Pete.

Looking at the aerial photograph from 1928, I did wonder if there was some sort of frame or partial cover but the image wasn't clear enough to be certain.  Even one of the much later pictures taken from ground level seems to show something overhanging the top of the tank near the ladder, but I had no idea what it might be.

I think I'm going to assume that it is all missing unless I can find pictures from which I could base an addition to the model - its something that would be easy to add at a later time though.

Best wishes

John

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16 hours ago, Ian Morgan said:

Would there not be an overflow pipe to prevent over-filling?

 

Here is my attempt. I really must get around to fitting the outlet and hose on the wall so my Terriers can actually top up. However, this side is not normally visible.

 

 

 

Hi Ian

An overflow pipe is an interesting thought but how would it work in a pillar tank - where does the overflowing water go?  Also just out of interest, how did water get into the tank in the first place - pumped from a source nearby presumably , but was it pumped up through the center of the pillar (probably not as many similar tanks were on top of a steel section frame)  or through  a hose just temporarily hung into the tank?  Not really relevant to the model but just a bit of extra general knowledge is always interesting.

Best wishes

John

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Thanks Ian and Jerry for showing your water tanks - lovely models.

I'll be picking your brains when it comes to building a similar one of my own.

Tavistock was well endowered with water sources - a simple pillar supply near the main signal box, the one I am now making near the goods shed and a large rectangular tank on 4 metal legs sited near the turntable.

 

2029575980_GWRJColourpic-southend.JPG.d0754d0a92fe9670d2befee09f5d6c8a.JPG

 

I won't get round to that one till after the next baseboard is built but I'll be looking for ideas on how best to build the tank - etched (don't let Henk see that word) or maybe 3d printed - at least this tank clearly has a roof.

Best wishes

John

Edited by John Brenchley
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5 hours ago, John Brenchley said:

Thanks Ian and Jerry for showing your water tanks - lovely models.

I'll be picking your brains when it comes to building a similar one of my own.

Tavistock was well endowered with water sources - a simple pillar supply near the main signal box, the one I am now making near the goods shed and a large rectangular tank on 4 metal legs sited near the turntable.

 

1203699041_GWRJColourpic-southend.JPG.e47e8056fa01f4e800b608419ef0d754.JPG

 

I won't get round to that one till after the next baseboard is built but I'll be looking for ideas on how best to build the tank - etched (don't let Henk see that word) or maybe 3d printed - at least this tank clearly has a roof.

Best wishes

John

3d Print for the main tank with etching for the details would seem to be the way forward for this tank. 

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11 hours ago, John Brenchley said:

 

Hi Ian

An overflow pipe is an interesting thought but how would it work in a pillar tank - where does the overflowing water go?  Also just out of interest, how did water get into the tank in the first place - pumped from a source nearby presumably , but was it pumped up through the center of the pillar (probably not as many similar tanks were on top of a steel section frame)  or through  a hose just temporarily hung into the tank?  Not really relevant to the model but just a bit of extra general knowledge is always interesting.

Best wishes

John

I think the incoming water would go up through the centre of the supporting pillar - refilling from a temporary hose wouldn't really be workable (you'd be doing it after every 2 or 3 locos used the tank potentially). Where there was a steel stanchion supporting the tanks it appears to be a sort of fabricated 'box' section so the water supply pipe must run up the middle (fixing a leak must have been fun!);

 

https://locoyard.com/2012/08/12/didcot-railway-centre/029-didcot-railway-centre-didcot-halt-water-tower/

 

Incidentally, there are drawings for few different types of  GWR "fire grates" for water cranes in Great Western Journal number 4. Unfortunately the drawing is reproduced to quite a small scale and it's not very easy to see the dimensions on it.

 

Andy

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16 hours ago, John Brenchley said:

Thanks Ian and Jerry for showing your water tanks - lovely models.

I'll be picking your brains when it comes to building a similar one of my own.

Tavistock was well endowered with water sources - a simple pillar supply near the main signal box, the one I am now making near the goods shed and a large rectangular tank on 4 metal legs sited near the turntable.

 

1203699041_GWRJColourpic-southend.JPG.e47e8056fa01f4e800b608419ef0d754.JPG

 

I won't get round to that one till after the next baseboard is built but I'll be looking for ideas on how best to build the tank - etched (don't let Henk see that word) or maybe 3d printed - at least this tank clearly has a roof.

Best wishes

John

John,

Lovely work. 
My water tank at Totnes was, IIRC, constructed of that new-fangled material, reinforced concrete, during the 1930s. I made mine out of mount board with thin card overlays, sanded and painted, and with etched brass and wire details - gauge, ladder and guard rails. I don’t think that GWR painted the concrete.

Attached is a photo.

49C55352-A736-47FB-85D5-2E8A8DC2A027.jpeg.b5d592bb4f02a48b316286621c08d8fb.jpeg

 

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12 hours ago, 2mm Andy said:

I think the incoming water would go up through the centre of the supporting pillar - refilling from a temporary hose wouldn't really be workable (you'd be doing it after every 2 or 3 locos used the tank potentially). Where there was a steel stanchion supporting the tanks it appears to be a sort of fabricated 'box' section so the water supply pipe must run up the middle (fixing a leak must have been fun!);

 

https://locoyard.com/2012/08/12/didcot-railway-centre/029-didcot-railway-centre-didcot-halt-water-tower/

 

Incidentally, there are drawings for few different types of  GWR "fire grates" for water cranes in Great Western Journal number 4. Unfortunately the drawing is reproduced to quite a small scale and it's not very easy to see the dimensions on it.

 

Andy

 

Thanks Andy

I have issue 4 so will have a look at that and see if i can get the size approximately correct

Best wishes

John

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Excellent buildings.

 

I have often  wondered about the ownership arrangements of merchant's structures like these on railway land.  I assume they paid to be there, but I wonder what the terms were. And who owned and maintained the structures. I assume the merchant's did, but would there have been cases where a merchant went out of business and the structure was taken over by someone else, or even by the GWR itself...

 

I have looked for such info in some of the GWRJ station articles I have, but no luck yet. 

 

Edited by Mikkel
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15 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

I have often  wondered about the ownership arrangements of merchant's structures like these on railway land.  I assume they paid to be there, but I wonder what the terms were. And who owned and maintained the structures. I assume the merchant's did, but would there have been cases where a merchant went out of business and the structure was taken over by someone else, or even by the GWR itself...

 

Thanks Mikkel

Although there are extensive comments on the various merchants that operated at both Tavistock stations in the excellent article in GWRJ Issue 17, it is not clear who owned what.  My gut feeling is that non railway sheds such as those used for the wool storage might have been owned and maintained by the merchants with maybe a rent paid to the railway for use of the land.  However the article also refers to Levers who handled agricultural supplies and says "Levers were accommodated in a corrugated iron pagoda shed at the south end of the goods shed, and later in the former stables".  Since I think both these buildings would be of GWR origin, maybe they were just rented to Levers, rather than owned by them.

Best wishes

John

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  • 1 month later...

I seem to have had several projects on the go at the same time recently including finishing off the water tank, continuing with the vegetation at the front of the layout and starting one of the two etched kits I have bought for the 6 ton yard cranes.

 

The first project to be completed was the water tank with a close up picture below.

 

923269953_PB200114adjusted.jpg.07633cbb9542ecc3bdb3e19bcdc9207a.jpg

 

The main change since I last posted has been painting the model in GWR light and dark stone colours (using the RailMatch range of paints), followed by weathering with washes of "roof dirt" and dry brushing with a variety of paints mixed to rust colours.  Thread has been used to represent the chains and the etched ladder is now fixed in place.

 

The fire devil has also been scratch built from bits of scrap brass - I initially tried plastic but it wasn't strong enough nor delicate enough in appearance.

 

PA230109cropped.jpg.5696dbff9778a5a4bdbf6e4495e93315.jpg

 

The legs have ended up slightly shorter than they should be but I had so much difficulty soldering them all on that I'm not going to try changing them now and once painted and located on the layout, its not really going to be noticed.

 

Finally, a view from the other side.

 

PB200121.JPG.a911e704c5c3a7d73b0b581115180131.JPG

 

In both pictures, the unpainted crane can be seen (I'll post some construction notes as I build the second one). This one is complete apart from deciding on the chain which is just placed loosely in position at the moment.  The finest chain I could find was 40 links per inch whereas from counting links on pictures, I think 70 per inch would be more correct.  In effect, is is almost twice as large as it should be.  So I have to make a decision.

 

1. I could take the view that the eye expects to see a chain so it is better to have a proper one even if it is overscale.

 

2. The alternative approach would be to say that scale size is the most important factor and some other representation of the correct thickness would be preferable, even if links can't be seen. i.e. something similar to the thread used to represent the even finer chain on the water tank.

 

What do others think?

 

(I have tried twisting wire together to try to create a chain appearance, but so far, haven't managed to achieve an acceptable result.)

 

Best wishes

 

John

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by John Brenchley
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Looking at the really nice photo halfway down the RMweb thread /Home/Modelling Zone/Modelling Questions, Help and Tips/GWR 6 Ton Yard Crane for 4mm/   

it is clear the real chain is way finer, so I would tend to vote for using thread rather than chain.

I know it sounds mad but have you thought of spotting a thread with a different light colour paint?

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