Trelothen - a Cornish fishing harbour

[Stubby47]

Planning.

 

 

I think I've got the track layout sorted, which means I can cut the board.

I have had to lose the carriage siding (at least from this board) to give enough length to the platform line.

 

I should get 4 wagons in the yard loop, which is fine as it will be easier to ascend the incline with a small train.

 

There are also 3 sidings to shuffle wagons into, so plenty of operational scope.

[St Enodoc]

11 hours ago, Stubby47 said:

I've been wondering what would be the best method to operate the points.

 

I think the simple answer is to mount the Cobalts on the nearest baseboard rib, horizontally, and take two spring wires off the operating wire (the bit that usually goes through the baseboard). This will give me the best 'throw'. I can then take each wire to this sort of contraption:

 

 

 

which will be cheap and adjustable.  The tube for the wire is held by the choc block, allowing finite adjustment to ensure the tiebar moves correctly.

 

At the motor end, I can just hotglue the tube to the baseboard.

Thinking back to @Clive Mortimore's wide-to-gauge trap point, could you use the Cobalt to drive a double crank and thereby impart the movement to your WiTs?

 

I was going to crack a joke about how, when the wire reached the tiebar, you were at your WiT's end but I thought better of it.

[Stubby47]

5 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Thinking back to @Clive Mortimore's wide-to-gauge trap point, could you use the Cobalt to drive a double crank and thereby impart the movement to your WiTs?

 

I was going to crack a joke about how, when the wire reached the tiebar, you were at your WiT's end but I thought better of it.

When I thought about it, the two tiebars for points for a cross over need to move in opposite directions. Also, the distance between those tiebars is almost twice the length of a point, and possibly more if they are not toe to toe.

As Mike questioned, the baseboard ribs are not directly in the way, but are in between the two tiebar positions. 

 

As I can bend the WiT as needed, taking two wires off the Cobalt, one in either direction, gives the necessary alternative movement without the need for cranks.

[Stubby47]

Of course, thinking still further, as the WiT can be bent in any direction, if I take both wires off the motor in the same direction, I can use a twin choc block to hold the tube ends, a much neater option.

 

From an engineering perspective, that would put uneven stress on the motor, in each direction of movement,  which could cause reliability issues. Except of course Trelothen is not Clapham Junction, so the probable total number of movements will be in the low hundreds. 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Stubby47

[5BarVT]

OR . . .

With the right clamp at the cobalt you could have a single wire from tie bar to tie bar!

Paul.

[Stubby47]

Yes.... I could drive both ties bars from one wire.

 

But, it limits the fettling ability and would mean an uneven positioning of the motor.  I'm hoping to mount the cobalt roughly equally in between the two points, hopefully on a rib rather than the underside of the baseboard.   This will allow the adjuster pivot bar thingy to be moved nearer the actuating arm, to give more throw to compensate for any slackness in the WiT & dowels. 

[St Enodoc]

5 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

OR . . .

With the right clamp at the cobalt you could have a single wire from tie bar to tie bar!

Paul.

OR...

 

You could mount the Cobalt to one of the points in the usual way then run Paul's single wire to the other point.

 

The possibilities are (almost) endless.

[St Enodoc]

1 minute ago, Stubby47 said:

Yes.... I could drive both ties bars from one wire.

 

But, it limits the fettling ability and would mean an uneven positioning of the motor.  I'm hoping to mount the cobalt roughly equally in between the two points, hopefully on a rib rather than the underside of the baseboard.   This will allow the adjuster pivot bar thingy to be moved nearer the actuating arm, to give more throw to compensate for any slackness in the WiT & dowels. 

I always move the fulcrum bar as close to the throw arm as possible. Even with hand-built points and flexible switches, there's still plenty of force to move them across and you get a good bend in the wire to act as a spring, holding the switch blades against the stock rails.

 

If you need to move the fulcrum bar to trade off force against throw, then I reckon there's something wrong with the points.

[Stubby47]

Just now, St Enodoc said:

OR...

 

You could mount the Cobalt to one of the points in the usual way then run Paul's single wire to the other point.

 

The possibilities are (almost) endless.

 

Yes, but that again, I think, will limit the adjustment needed for the 2nd tiebar.  If the movement is restricted by the 1st tiebar, then there is no leeway for more movement to compensate for any slack over the 12" - 18" to the 2nd tiebar.

 

The possibilities are almost endless, but finding the right option is worth a bit of thinking & discussion. 

[St Enodoc]

4 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

Yes, but that again, I think, will limit the adjustment needed for the 2nd tiebar.  If the movement is restricted by the 1st tiebar, then there is no leeway for more movement to compensate for any slack over the 12" - 18" to the 2nd tiebar.

True enough. There are ways round that, such as slipping clutches, but the simple ways are usually the best.

 

You might recall that I use an equalising bar on my double slips for exactly the same reason.

[Stubby47]

I'll also be retaining the oversprings in the Peco points, and not rely on the WiT and Cobalt to hold the blades over.  Previous experience of WiT is good, but using manual slide switches and not a with a motor, so I want to hedge my bets and use as much assistance as I can.

[MrWolf]

A more mechanical approach would work, all of which is out of sight. The Z link is fairly easy to fabricate.

 

[Stubby47]

On 15/07/2021 at 21:20, Stubby47 said:

 

I have had to lose the carriage siding (at least from this board) to give enough length to the platform line.

 

 

This decision was made based on not leaving a coach over the point. However, by running the train up to the stops, the last coach would be clear of a siding point anyway. When the train is pushed back to allow the run round, as long as the train doesn't impede the loop, all should be good.

 

So I think I can revert to the earlier plan and

means just 4 tracks will cross the board join.

[Andrew D]

Glad to have stumbled across this thread in the early stages. I'm excited about this build, and look forward to learning from a pro! 

 

Another vote here for the Class 22 rather than the Warship, simply because I have a thing for the unloved and unpopular Bo-Bos. 

[Stubby47]

Thanks Andrew.Not sure about the pro tag, but this is my long-term project where I want to build everything to the best of my ability.

 

Meanwhile, this section of track will be on a raised piece of ground, with no easy vehicle access.

 

 

It could be used as a siding for an extra coach, but that would be difficult to access by a single loco.

It could be a parcels bay, if the local sorting office was built high enough, but I'm not sure a small holiday town would need such a large-scale service.

I could dispense with it altogether,  but would that just look strange?

 

Again, much more pondering needed.

[Chimer]

It has the look of somewhere stock might be dumped out of harm's way if unlikely to be wanted for a while.  I think it looks better in than out, so my vote would be keep it.

[Graham T]

Maybe stick an out of service wagon on there?  I seem to remember a photo of such a beast in one of Paul Karau's books, it was at Lambourn I think.

[simonmcp]

1 hour ago, Stubby47 said:

Thanks Andrew.Not sure about the pro tag, but this is my long-term project where I want to build everything to the best of my ability.

 

Meanwhile, this section of track will be on a raised piece of ground, with no easy vehicle access.

 

 

It could be used as a siding for an extra coach, but that would be difficult to access by a single loco.

It could be a parcels bay, if the local sorting office was built high enough, but I'm not sure a small holiday town would need such a large-scale service.

I could dispense with it altogether,  but would that just look strange?

 

Again, much more pondering needed.

Reminds me of Helston's carriage siding. Simon

[The Stationmaster]

3 hours ago, Stubby47 said:

Thanks Andrew.Not sure about the pro tag, but this is my long-term project where I want to build everything to the best of my ability.

 

Meanwhile, this section of track will be on a raised piece of ground, with no easy vehicle access.

 

 

It could be used as a siding for an extra coach, but that would be difficult to access by a single loco.

It could be a parcels bay, if the local sorting office was built high enough, but I'm not sure a small holiday town would need such a large-scale service.

I could dispense with it altogether,  but would that just look strange?

 

Again, much more pondering needed.

Ideal place to stable a spare coach, or a Cordon gas tank car. or .....  

 

Now let's get clever - fish are being landed and there's a need to get a wagon or two a good transit on the back of a passenger train so the lower yard pilot shunts the loaded vans to somewhere they will be easy to readily attach to the next passenger.  And the only place that allows that to happen easily would be that siding  because as an engine runs round it would be a matter of only a couple of minutes to collect those vans of fish and then shunt them onto the front of the passenger coaches - and away to go.   And as the passenger train makes its way back up the branch it would obviously overtake the freight trip shunting intermediate stations and taking forever to get to the junction

[mdvle]

3 hours ago, Stubby47 said:

It could be used as a siding for an extra coach, but that would be difficult to access by a single loco.

It could be a parcels bay, if the local sorting office was built high enough, but I'm not sure a small holiday town would need such a large-scale service.

 

A small harbour town, with limited space thanks to geography, which needs space to say hold an extra coach for a small number of busy Saturdays in the peak season wouldn't necessarily care about how easy access was for something used once a week I would guess.

 

Or, perhaps not a parcel bay, but a luggage bay - a place to unload, keep for the week, and then load an older piece of stock used for the service of taking holiday guests luggage ahead of time to their destination.

 

 

[rcf]

The consensus seems to be to keep the siding, but you know me, simple in everything, and if you are struggling to find a use for it, then in my book, it is surplus to requirements and should come out. I think it would look ok without it, just my personal opinion. I will watch the build with interest.

 

Rob

[Fishplate]

Hi @Stubby47. If freight trains normally arrive at the platform before being shunted to the lower part of the plan, this would be an ideal location to drop, and later pick up, the brake van.

 

I like the fish van idea by @The Stationmaster as well.

 

Looking forward to watching this develop.

 

John

[Stubby47]

Gents, wow, many thanks for all your thoughts, very much appreciated. 

 

As you can probably tell, my preference is to keep the siding, though the option to remove it was there, based on supporting feedback.

 

If there is a defunct wagon, it would probably be left in the lower yard somewhere, awaiting a special movement.

 

I could see a use for storing a special use wagon - I have a couple of these already.

 

I guess the use for a spare coach could be an option, but it would need the pilot from the lower yard.

I also like the idea of adding fish vans to a passenger train.

 

Freight will normally (!) arrive directly in the lower yard,  and be shunted by either the train loco or the pilot if needed.

 

The factory will also be shunted by the pilot, so transferring a van or two to the station would be feasible.

 

I should be able to purchase the cork tiles tomorrow,  before visiting Andy P and The Pod, prior to returning to Cornwall with No.2 son and all his kit.

 

I then need to adapt the points, as shown by @Mick Bonwick, to improve the electrical connections.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Stubby47

[Andrew P]

Great to meet you today Stu, and finally put a face to a name. 

 

You came up with some really good ideas and suggestions for the new project and I hope I can incorperate some into the build.

Watch this space. Well not actually THIS SPACE, but my new thread when it starts.

 

Cheers again.

[The Stationmaster]

One little problem regarding putting a coach in the siding -once it has been taken out how would it get back?  If it leaves on a passenger train in order to strengthen that traiin logic didtates that it would come back on a passenger train.  But the train would then be too long for the engine to run round and shunt off the coach.  

It always pays to think a couple of moves ahead of the one you have in mind