Hornby Limited Edition, Limited Production, Special Edition - what is the difference?

[G-BOAF]

Looking at some of my boxes, there are various terms that could mean or imply similar things:

 

Waterman Collection Castle Class - 'Limited Production' (no stated number made)

Diamond Jubilee Royal Britannia and Coaches 'Special Edition 1700'

Commonwealth Collection 60010 'Limited Edition 1000' (with numbered certificate supplied)

 

These are just three examples from my collection, but I am aware of other in recent years from Hornby (e.g. Collectors Centre Prototype Black Britannia 'Limited Production 1350, with numbered sticker on box, but no certificate)

 

What is the meaning of these different terms, and how comes they are so inconsistent - e.g. some Special Production models as individually numbered, some not. How is a numbered special production model different to a limited edition?

Why then would a 'limited production' be produced without stating the number produced...?

Would a 'limited edition' of 2000 with numbered certificate be more valuable to collectors than a 'special edition' of 1700 pieces without a certificate...

 

Can someone offer explanation over what the terms exactly mean?

 

Not that this impacts my behaviour. I've 'butchered' quite a few limited and special editions in recent years to produce new variants and details not captured by Hornby, but I'm curious as to why Hornby have such a wide terminology.

Edited July 13, 2021 by G-BOAF

[andyman7]

Limited production is just marketing-speak to encourage people to buy, all modern superdetail RTR is by definition 'Limited Production' these days. The use of named production numbers (either with or without certificates) is another way to make a product appear 'special' and encourage purchase. There are quite a few regular releases that have been made in fewer numbers than certificated 'Limited' or 'Special' editions. It's all just marketing, there's no magic code to it all.

 

Back in the late 1980s Wrenn issued many Limited Editions. It was only after their closure, the boom in Wrenn collecting and the issuing of really detailed production data (thanks mainly to Maurice Gunter's book) that it became apparent that not only had many of their Limited Editions been issued in considerably lower numbers than indicated on the certificates; but that many supposedly regular issue items had been issued in even fewer numbers - I seem to recall that one variation of the 2-6-4T had a production figure of 5 (yes, five!). No wonder people went nuts trying to find them.

[RyanN91]

Yes I always assumed limited editions eg 1000 or whatever that are produced. They  also come with a certificate usually singed by Simon Kholer. (Minus his sabatacle) also in retro or period packaging the 40th Anniversary Evening star in 1972 in 2012 in Hornby Railways inspired packaging. And the recent centenary range with Period packaging of each of the decades era more recently. 

 

And special editions I think are uncertificated with eg special packaging etc and I think the production run isn't as large as the normal range.

Edited July 13, 2021 by RyanN91
Missed info typo fix uncertificated.

[Steamport Southport]

Limited Production is normally time limited. Airfix used to do that with the wagon kits. They would make them for a few weeks and when they were gone, they were gone. You would then have to wait years for another batch.

 

Limited Edition is normally amount limited. Such as they are making 500 or 1000 only. But don't usually get repeated.

 

Special Edition is like the above, but usually based around an event. Usually not limited by amount.

 

 

Jason

[andyman7]

19 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Limited Production is normally time limited. Airfix used to do that with the wagon kits. They would make them for a few weeks and when they were gone, they were gone. You would then have to wait years for another batch.

 

Limited Edition is normally amount limited. Such as they are making 500 or 1000 only. But don't usually get repeated.

 

Special Edition is like the above, but usually based around an event. Usually not limited by amount.

 

 

Jason

'Limited Production' for the wagon and loco kits applied from the late 60s to the mid 70s and reflected the kits' removal from the standard Airfix distribution list - for this period they were generally offered via railway model shops. Kit production in the 60s and 70s was in the many hundreds of thousands - much higher volumes than today; the sheer number of unmade Airfix railways series kits that still turn up today are testament to the numbers made, perhaps contributed to by the tendency for people to buy and hoard these kits for use 'one day'. Loft quantities of the darn things regularly appear these days as estates are cleared. 

[Steamport Southport]

19 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

'Limited Production' for the wagon and loco kits applied from the late 60s to the mid 70s and reflected the kits' removal from the standard Airfix distribution list - for this period they were generally offered via railway model shops. Kit production in the 60s and 70s was in the many hundreds of thousands - much higher volumes than today; the sheer number of unmade Airfix railways series kits that still turn up today are testament to the numbers made, perhaps contributed to by the tendency for people to buy and hoard these kits for use 'one day'. Loft quantities of the darn things regularly appear these days as estates are cleared. 

 

Yes. But the ones that had "Limited Production" on the boxes were just that. A production for a limited time.

 

They are proper legal terms, not a made up thing to shift models like many seem to think.

 

 

Jason

[DonnyRailMan]

2 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

Looking at some of my boxes, there are various terms that could mean or imply similar things:

 

Waterman Collection Castle Class - 'Limited Production' (no stated number made)

Diamond Jubilee Royal Britannia and Coaches 'Special Edition 1700'

Commonwealth Collection 60010 'Limited Edition 1000' (with numbered certificate supplied)

 

These are just three examples from my collection, but I am aware of other in recent years from Hornby (e.g. Collectors Centre Prototype Black Britannia 'Limited Production 1350, with numbered sticker on box, but no certificate)

 

What is the meaning of these different terms, and how comes they are so inconsistent - e.g. some Special Production models as individually numbered, some not. How is a numbered special production model different to a limited edition?

Why then would a 'limited production' be produced without stating the number produced...?

Would a 'limited edition' of 2000 with numbered certificate be more valuable to collectors than a 'special edition' of 1700 pieces without a certificate...

 

Can someone offer explanation over what the terms exactly mean?

 

Not that this impacts my behaviour. I've 'butchered' quite a few limited and special editions in recent years to produce new variants and details not captured by Hornby, but I'm curious as to why Hornby have such a wide terminology.

 

I totally agree with above. Sam from Sam's Trains on YouTube going back to about 2015 & 2016  did video reviews on 3 of the  Hornby Tornado all 3 videos are worth a view.

Edited July 13, 2021 by DonnyRailMan

[G-BOAF]

Interesting discussion.

So would a 'Limited Production' Earl Cairns (the waterman castle) be a smaller batch than one of the 'regular' models of that run (e.g. Ince Castle).

In both cases however it seems like a single production batch was made and had not been repeated, so as noted above, both models are to an extend limited.

 

I'm still unclear on the difference between a 'Special Edition' with stated batch size on the box, potentially including a numbered sticker, and a 'Limited Edition' with numbered certificate....

[G-BOAF]

1 minute ago, DonnyRailMan said:

 

I totally agree with above. Sam from Samsung Trains on YouTube going back to about 2015 & 2016  did video reviews on 3 of the  Hornby Tornado all 3 videos are worth a view.

Wrong thread???!!

[adb968008]

All those terms are obsolete marketing to me.

 

Newer terms like “Sold out at the warehouse”, “Factory production volumes locked”, “Batch nearly sold out”, “Not many remaining” are also wearing thin.

 

Unless I see tooling smashing parties, more can be made.. by any one manufacturer or their later replacement.

 

if prices get too high, and UK entities fail, another will pick up the tooling in China and make more.

Edited July 13, 2021 by adb968008

[DonnyRailMan]

What I menti was difference in price for slightly different spec , and was the price difference justyfyed. 

[andyman7]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Yes. But the ones that had "Limited Production" on the boxes were just that. A production for a limited time.

 

They are proper legal terms, not a made up thing to shift models like many seem to think.

 

 

Jason

The legal niceties on toys back in the late 60s were not nearly as onerous as they are now. However, whatever the intention, there was in practice no practical restriction on availability of these items.
 

The quote on P188 of Steve Knight's 'Let's Stick A Little Bit More' (Irwell Press 2012) admirably sums up the so-called 'Limited Production' Airfix wagons: 'The era of "Limited Production" kits in Type 3 boxes produced vast quantities of stock which lasted throughout the Seventies. The only limit seemed be how many they thought the Dealers would take".

[adb968008]

15 hours ago, andyman7 said:

The legal niceties on toys back in the late 60s were not nearly as onerous as they are now. However, whatever the intention, there was in practice no practical restriction on availability of these items.
 

The quote on P188 of Steve Knight's 'Let's Stick A Little Bit More' (Irwell Press 2012) admirably sums up the so-called 'Limited Production' Airfix wagons: 'The era of "Limited Production" kits in Type 3 boxes produced vast quantities of stock which lasted throughout the Seventies. The only limit seemed be how many they thought the Dealers would take".

Interesting take, in the 1980’s I heard a rep with an updated take on that phrase…

”Limited to as many as we can sell”.

 

I suppose 2021 its probably “Limited to as many as China will make”.

[Steamport Southport]

18 hours ago, andyman7 said:

The legal niceties on toys back in the late 60s were not nearly as onerous as they are now. However, whatever the intention, there was in practice no practical restriction on availability of these items.
 

The quote on P188 of Steve Knight's 'Let's Stick A Little Bit More' (Irwell Press 2012) admirably sums up the so-called 'Limited Production' Airfix wagons: 'The era of "Limited Production" kits in Type 3 boxes produced vast quantities of stock which lasted throughout the Seventies. The only limit seemed be how many they thought the Dealers would take".

 

I'm not talking about back in the day though. Maybe they fell fowl of the 1968 Act?

 

If you put Limited Edition or Limited Production on an item then you need to obey the Trades Descriptions Act. Which is now the Consumer Rights Act.

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/contents/enacted

 

Which is a law. Doesn't matter if it's "toys" or Rolex watches. It applies to everything. Including second hand and used goods.

 

 

Jason

[Legend]

To answer the OP directly , whats the difference I'd say £20-£50 depending on model .   Its just marketing hype applied inconsistently . Largely meaningless as production runs tend to be small these days anyway. 

[andyman7]

8 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I'm not talking about back in the day though. Maybe they fell fowl of the 1968 Act?

 

If you put Limited Edition or Limited Production on an item then you need to obey the Trades Descriptions Act. Which is now the Consumer Rights Act.

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/contents/enacted

 

Which is a law. Doesn't matter if it's "toys" or Rolex watches. It applies to everything. Including second hand and used goods.

 

 

Jason

There's a sense of proportion needed too. These were 2/- (10p) plastic kits. There was no obvious benefit to Airfix from marking these as such and no-one got hurt - well not unless someone with 1000 of the Airfix Mineral Wagon kits in their shed is preparing to sue on the basis that 50 years on you can still pick them up for a fiver each and their retirement dreams are in tatters....(based on the number of these that turn up I wouldn't be surprised if someone still has 1000 of these in their shed)