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Lyneworth Phase 2


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Hi All,

Some months ago you all chipped in to help me with "Lyneworth"  and as you can see from the first pic it's taking shape nicely. I'm now looking at phase 2! Having bought SWMBO a puppy and a shed to put gardening things in, I now have the whole garage to play with!

 

I want to bring the mainlines at the top right round and down the long vertical board at the far right, and possibly have a few lanes along that bit to store trains on, then the tracks continue up the other side of the garage to the bottom left in the pic which will be "Millhampton".

 

My problem is trying to get the turn right from the top. I have used Setrack up to now but want to try and use Streamline 100 if possible.

 

For anyone who would like to have a go in AnyRail, the base board sizes are (clockwise from top left in inches)

 

69 x 18, 32 x 24, 96 x 48, 15 x 96, 119 x 24, 78 x 36

 

The garage door is in the gap to the left but I was considering a "lift-up flap" or "swing gate" so I can run trains around in a complete circuit.

 

Any ideas?????

 

Clive

 

(Not so Newbie!!)

Lyneworth.jpg

AnyRail Lyneworth Phase 2.PNG

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  • RMweb Gold

How do you reach across the 2 large boards? Ie the existing 48” wide one, and the 36” one? The answer may affect track design.

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My first thought is that if you want to use Set-track radii for your 90 degree bends (which you probably do in most of your corners, especially if the track is hidden, to save length in between them for more interesting stuff), there's absolutely no point in using flexitrack instead.  It's difficult to get smooth bends at tight radii and you are likely to get distortions, especially if there are track joiners (fishplates) halfway round the bend.  But I'd be 100% in favour of using Streamline points ......

 

The first question is, do you want to keep what you've built already, or are you offering us a fresh start?  Because while the roundy-roundy with reversing loop on the 8' x 4' did the job you wanted last time, I don't think many of us would include it in a design using the extra scope you've got now.

 

Other questions  (apart from ITG's which is a good one):

What length of train do you want to run now?

Do you want to include at least semi-realistic freight operations?

Do you enjoy your current operations (out and back from a terminus), or are you more keen on establishing a continuous run round the whole garage?

Are the board sizes you've given us absolutely fixed?

 

There'll be lots more .....

 

Nice work so far, by the way!

 

 

Edited by Chimer
Add a bit about Streamline points
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On 19/07/2021 at 07:36, ITG said:

How do you reach across the 2 large boards? Ie the existing 48” wide one, and the 36” one? The answer may affect track design.

One Piece of advice I was given at the start was to put an access hatch in, I didn't listen! I REALLY should have!! LOL!!! Reaching accross the large board is quite hard, which will be even more difficult once the station is in, although that will be removable - Still! Lesson learned!!

 

The 36" one is not too bad I have part of that in now which I am using as a work bench.

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Chimer said:

My first thought is that if you want to use Set-track radii for your 90 degree bends (which you probably do in most of your corners, especially if the track is hidden, to save length in between them for more interesting stuff), there's absolutely no point in using flexitrack instead.  It's difficult to get smooth bends at tight radii and you are likely to get distortions, especially if there are track joiners (fishplates) halfway round the bend.  But I'd be 100% in favour of using Streamline points ......

 

The first question is, do you want to keep what you've built already, or are you offering us a fresh start?  Because while the roundy-roundy with reversing loop on the 8' x 4' did the job you wanted last time, I don't think many of us would include it in a design using the extra scope you've got now.

 

Other questions  (apart from ITG's which is a good one):

What length of train do you want to run now?

Do you want to include at least semi-realistic freight operations?

Do you enjoy your current operations (out and back from a terminus), or are you more keen on establishing a continuous run round the whole garage?

Are the board sizes you've given us absolutely fixed?

 

There'll be lots more .....

 

Nice work so far, by the way!

 

 

I'd Like the roundy round bit to stay. I'm sort of modelling that as a "Preservation" railway. I take your point about using setrack for the tighter curves.

 

I'm not after masssively long trains about 4-5 carriages max.

Yes I want to make Millhampton more Freight orientated.

Definitely want to be able to run trains around acomplete circuit.

Boad sizes are not fixed except the original 8' x 4' board, The rest Ives sized up allowwing the maximum modelling space with the maximum in central access, but I'm happy to look at changing anyof those.

 

Cheers

 

Clive

Edited by Newbie2020
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  • RMweb Gold
Posted (edited)

If I calculate your board dimensions correctly, it seems the gap in the middle (alongside your 48” wide board) is 24”? That, for most of us, is just about doable, but tight! Depends on one’s girth etc, but easing that up to 30” would be better, although that would impact on the depth of that bottom board….. assuming you retain the 48” board. How do you uncouple stock in the sidings alongside the back wall? You’d need to have a very reliable automated/remote method surely, as doing so by hand at arms length would be a stretch, wouldn’t it?

 

I would not want to do anything other than a quick fix (replace a derailed item) at 36”. Working on scenery is tough and uncomfortable at that distance for most modellers.

 

I fully get why you’d wish to keep what you already have, and extend it. I faced a similar dilemma, when my first layout with central operating well, occupied a 6’6” x 7’ space, in a compromise to have the other part of that room as an office. Result - too much of a compromise! Office ditched. So, allowing for door opening space, I could have added an extension of some 4’6” along a wall with a depth of up to 3’. Every option I considered just didn’t add enough logical railway. So, I ditched the whole lot, put 2’ wide boards around the room with a diagonal section across the door opening, and ended up with a better track plan (I think). The dilemma you face is:

1. Do I add to what I’ve got, which may build in any flaws in the track plan, and which one day you may say “I wish I had done x” OR

2. Do I start all over again now, learn from what you’ve already done, but plan anew?

 

Interestingly, I too had a reverse loop on my first layout, and I so wanted to keep that feature, that I designed the new plan to have a 2’6” span removable girder bridge section across the middle of the central area, linking the 2’ wide boards either side. That could work for you as well.
 

PS. Think about where you wish to operate from. Where is any fixed control panel likely to be? With your 8’x4’ board, it’s likely to be along the inner 8’ side I suspect, but with a whole garage, it may be different.

 

No right answer, only you can decide! Good luck.

Edited by ITG
Added PS
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Is the original 8x4 section more or less complete? Im asking as there is no track beyond the point that allows access to the sidings inside the 8x4 section, according to the photo. Could we have another picture of the built section?

 

I didnt see the first thread so I dont know about eras etc - if you want a freight facility they vary a lot by era. But first the baseboard scenario has to be dealt with, then what is left is the basis for the track plan. Presumably you have sat opposite the roundy section when nothing was behind it, but when you put those baseboards in position you will only be able to sit or stand facing the roundy section at an angle. Then there's the access; being a garage I would guess the door opens inwards although thats not certain, but if it does then the movable track section has to sit beyond the swing of the door, which will impinge on the space where you might sit. If the track section is inside the door travel that has big implications too for the layout.

 

Presumably to create the larger circuit (I think thats what you are implying Mr Newbie but Im not 100% sure)  you will continue tracks from the main station and swing them round onto the long baseboards on the opposite side. This is an opportunity for a sweeping run of track that modellers generally love. The actual bridge section doesnt have to be longer than the space you need to ease through, so you can build out from existing boards to some extent - dont have a 4' removable section if 2' is do-able and more convenient.

 

Finally for now, once you have a larger running loop in place, the operations with basically 2 layouts spliced together will be distinctly peculiar, however you plan it. You could finish up just operating the outer loops with the new goods facility and not operating what is basically a trainset layout, albeit a very good one. Thats why folk have questioned whether you should revise the first part of the layout.

Edited by RobinofLoxley
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13 hours ago, RobinofLoxley said:

Is the original 8x4 section more or less complete? Im asking as there is no track beyond the point that allows access to the sidings inside the 8x4 section, according to the photo. Could we have another picture of the built section?

I had to stop doing the inside sidings as that is the only way I can get access to model the back (Yep! should definitely have listened about the access panel!) so that will be done as I work forwards. sidings then carpark then Lyneworth Station itself.

 

Far left is the mainline station but all I've done so far is put platforms in as I was hoping I'd get the go ahead on extending that way! The big cupboard behind that is going in the shed!

 

Clive

Lyneworth3.jpg

Lyneworth4.jpg

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  • RMweb Gold

Is it the two tracks which go into the tunnel top right, which you are suggesting to extend round as the new round-the-room circuit? Or are you thinking to break into the existing double track roundy?
 

If the former, trains will have to run into your existing station, and then reverse out (maybe new loco) to get onto the current double track. The opposite is true as well. Seems a little unwieldy to me. More so as those two tracks exiting that tunnel, then condense down into a short single track section to enter the station.

 

I think if I were in your position, I’d be very tempted to start over.

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Just now, ITG said:

Is it the two tracks which go into the tunnel top right, which you are suggesting to extend round as the new round-the-room circuit? Or are you thinking to break into the existing double track roundy?
 

If the former, trains will have to run into your existing station, and then reverse out (maybe new loco) to get onto the current double track. The opposite is true as well. Seems a little unwieldy to me. More so as those two tracks exiting that tunnel, then condense down into a short single track section to enter the station.

 

I think if I were in your position, I’d be very tempted to start over.

Yes the top two tracks are the ones I want to extend towards the garage door. I agree the other end of that need redesigning a bit so that there are two separate lines going into the station to the left. Need to take the platform back to enable this .

 

There are a few reasons I don't want to start over, not least of which is sentimental as my dad had a lot of input into that plan! 

 

The rest is all fair game! I'm open to any suggestions for the rest!

 

Clive

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  • RMweb Gold
6 minutes ago, Newbie2020 said:

Yes the top two tracks are the ones I want to extend towards the garage door. I agree the other end of that need redesigning a bit so that there are two separate lines going into the station to the left. Need to take the platform back to enable this .

 

There are a few reasons I don't want to start over, not least of which is sentimental as my dad had a lot of input into that plan! 

 

The rest is all fair game! I'm open to any suggestions for the rest!

 

Clive

Fair comment. Personally, I’d still worry about how to access that far wall area after those sidings are laid, and also fully sceniced the 8x4 board. There will be some derailments or fault finding, etc! 
But I guess the question is - how much change is ok? As a compromise, I’d consider chopping off the bottom left corner (ie both track and board) of the existing twin circuit, but leave the reverse loop in place. That would still leave the top right hard-to-reach area, but at least it would improve the left hand side access. Which, incidentally, would make it easier to access the very area where you plan to alter the station entry/exit tracks.

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7 minutes ago, ITG said:

Fair comment. Personally, I’d still worry about how to access that far wall area after those sidings are laid, and also fully sceniced the 8x4 board. There will be some derailments or fault finding, etc! 
But I guess the question is - how much change is ok? As a compromise, I’d consider chopping off the bottom left corner (ie both track and board) of the existing twin circuit, but leave the reverse loop in place. That would still leave the top right hard-to-reach area, but at least it would improve the left hand side access. Which, incidentally, would make it easier to access the very area where you plan to alter the station entry/exit tracks.

I was thinking the same thing, but that dictates quite a lot of surgery to the points network, because the tracks there dont really work as spurs or sidings.

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  • RMweb Gold
3 minutes ago, RobinofLoxley said:

I was thinking the same thing, but that dictates quite a lot of surgery to the points network, because the tracks there dont really work as spurs or sidings.

True. This all reminds me of trying to work out how to extend a house, when the room you wish to add, doesn’t really fit onto the rooms which face the area for the extension! Such as a potential new bedroom but you can only access it off the existing kitchen! Do you live with that quirk, or do you move the kitchen to another room in the house? No right answer, but whatever choice is made, you gotta live with it!

 

Or in this instance, Newbie has!

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If you keep the 8' x 4', you really have to replace that mountain with a manhole.  It might just be feasible to make the mountain removable, maybe by pushing up from below, but otherwise when you bring the extra double track round that corner on the extra board you've got a completely unreachable hidden section.  One derailment in there and you are completely stuffed.

 

Track planning wise, the throat of the existing station obviously has to be redesigned so your new double track along the back runs into the two main platforms.  The junction onto the bit with the reversing loop is going to be tricky to make work, but something can probably be done, if the existing pointwork in the throat can be lifted.  I may have a go later .....

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If you want to keep the 8x4, does it have to be exactly where it is in the space? Or can you juggle the boards around.

 

It would probably work best as the return loop for a terminus which is along the opposite wall.

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33 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

If you want to keep the 8x4, does it have to be exactly where it is in the space? Or can you juggle the boards around.

 

It would probably work best as the return loop for a terminus which is along the opposite wall.

Possibly. The mainboard is only screwed to the wall, but the back scene boards are fixed in place.

 

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Posted (edited)

1922439709_LyneworthPhase21.1.JPG.17a8afe7ee54bf953c2a05d7d71564b6.JPGThis is how I pictured things in my mind. As you can see my idea of sidings along the long vertical board at the right, whilst good in theory, seems very difficult to make work without resorting to R1 curves.

Edited by Newbie2020
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Just had a thought. What if the long vertical was modelled as normal but two lines of track "descend to a hidden fiddle yard under  the board I've marked  A. First question is would that be a manageable incline/decline? allowing enough room under A so that the "fiddle Yard" is accessable?910007782_LyneworthPhase21.2.JPG.61b082b848921c499e722921a031c41e.JPG

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  • RMweb Gold
Posted (edited)

WHY do you want a hidden fiddle yard with all the problems that will bring??? :banghead:

 

And why do you want all the problems that inclines bring with them? Remember you need to gain enough clearance between upper and lower levels for a train (~70mm), baseboard (call it 10mm) and support structure (call that 50mm). Add in another 100mm to get your hand in, if it really is a fiddle yard, and that's 230mm in total. At the absolute steepest gradient you should contemplate, 1 in 35, that means you need a run of just over 8m to change levels, not including transitions.

 

You've just quadrupled the space available over your original board so there ought to be room for a proper fiddle yard on the level!

 

(There's a very good song by Orange Juice you need to listen to... :wink_mini:)

 

Edited by Harlequin
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58 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

WHY do you want a hidden fiddle yard with all the problems that will bring??? :banghead:

 

And why do you want all the problems that inclines bring with them? Remember you need to gain enough clearance between upper and lower levels for a train (~70mm), baseboard (call it 10mm) and support structure (call that 50mm). Add in another 100mm to get your hand in, if it really is a fiddle yard, and that's 230mm in total. At the absolute steepest gradient you should contemplate, 1 in 35, that means you need a run of just over 8m to change levels, not including transitions.

 

You've just quadrupled the space available over your original board so there ought to be room for a proper fiddle yard on the level!

 

(There's a very good song by Orange Juice you need to listen to... :wink_mini:)

 

That's definitely out then!! 

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OK, how about this?  Purple track is existing, blue is new.  You have a dedicated platform for your preservation line which can access the reverse loop (probably needs a run-round loop, but the whole of the preservation side can be developed further).  There is a trailing connecting crossover from the preservation side to the mainline.  A couple of storage loops on each mainline down the right hand side, long enough for loco + 5.  The curves bottom right are R2 - R5 at 2.625" centres.  The mainline between the right hand station throat and the bottom end of the storage loops is at 2" (Streamline) track spacing so your second station can be built using larger radius points.  And I've missed a trailing crossover in the left hand station throat which adds operational possibilities with trains reversing.

 

1316560975_newbie2020bgif.gif.21d8e484a269dc7442216e5ba0cfaa67.gif

 

Oh, and you'll see there's a manhole ........ :jester:

 

I could develop this further, but only if you are happy with the essentials.  I still think if it was me I'd start again entirely from scratch, mind!

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