Uniforms for staff and crew SER, SE&CR, L&SWR

[jaym481]

I've just received some of Andrew Stadden's excellent Edwardian figures and must get to painting. There is quite a bit on line about fashions worn by typical folk, but I haven't been able to find anything specific for engine crews and station staff. I've seen a few pictures, but guessing clothing colours from a black and white photo is not my forte. My inclination is that most coats would be a shade of blue (various shades if the photos are an accurate indication), to distinguish them from the dark greys and blacks common in gentlemen's fashion. Can anyone offer confirmation, suggestions or guidance? Unfortunately, I'm a few thousand miles from the UK, so a museum visit is out of the question.

[bbishop]

LSWR staff wore red ties.  Bill

[Michael Hodgson]

Don't know about the companies in question but some railways had a red lining to the uniform cap so that it could be used as a danger signal in the absence of flags.

[Nick C]

10 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Don't know about the companies in question but some railways had a red lining to the uniform cap so that it could be used as a danger signal in the absence of flags.

That, so I'm told, was the reason for the red ties, as Bill mentioned above - continued by the SR and BR(S)

[jaym481]

Noted on the red ties. Nobody has a cap in hand, so no lining visible. A couple of the firemen are in waistcoat, which I suspect would match the colour of the coat, but I may be wrong.

 

Am I safe with a shade of dark blue for the uniform coats and trousers?

[Regularity]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Don't know about the companies in question but some railways had a red lining to the uniform cap so that it could be used as a danger signal in the absence of flags.

Also true of flannel petticoats…

[Michael Hodgson]

I don't think many pre-grouping drivers and fireman wore flannel petticoats, or at least not while on duty.

[Edwardian]

8 hours ago, jaym481 said:

A couple of the firemen are in waistcoat, which I suspect would match the colour of the coat, but I may be wrong.

 

Footplate crew probably don't have a uniform as such.  Some Edwardian drivers were still wearing those Victorian white fustian coats. Dark coats, trousers and waistcoats are not necessarily in the same colours and materials.  One SW driver pictured I am sure wears dark corduroy tousers.

 

 

8 hours ago, jaym481 said:

Am I safe with a shade of dark blue for the uniform coats and trousers?

 

Not necessarily.

 

Porters and shunters, for instance, often wore corduroy trousers. I read of one company that specified green corduroy trousers (with blue coats etc).

 

Generally I think yours is an important question and that modellers may often make assumptions in this area that are not necessarily correct.

 

I cannot give you the answer though; the question warrants further research. 

[Regularity]

Probably someone in the respective "line societies" would be able to help.

[jaym481]

Thank you gentlemen, especially for pointing out the danger of making assumptions. Perhaps I should send a query to one or two of the societies as suggested.

Edited July 21, 2021 by jaym481

[wainwright1]

Hi Jaym.

 

I am a member of the South Eastern and Chatham Railway Society. We had a talk about uniforms a couple of years ago by our former chairman and I can recall the following items:

 

Indoor staff - Station Masters, Guards, Ticket Collectors, Indoor Porters etc. Formal uniforms dark blue or black with brass buttons. Badges on caps and other embellishments on lapels etc embroidered with gold thread. I cannot remember for certainty what colour the ties were, but I think that it was green.

 

Outdoor staff - Principally porters, green corduroy trousers and waistcoats, the waistcoats having grey sleeves. The badges on their caps being cast in whitemetal.

 

If you email Chris Wilson on Chris Wilson • secronward@gmail.com, he should be able to refer your enquiry on to the relevant society members for a more detailed reply.

 

All the best

Ray

 

 

[bbishop]

I'm the custodian of the South Western Circle's photographic collection.  Locomotives were often posed for photographs with the crew draped in front of the buffer beam and in the cab.  Typical dress were baggy trousers, shirt, tie, waistcoat, pocket watch (driver) and maybe a high buttoned jacket.  I reckon these were blue cotton jackets.  And always a hat, more often than not a cloth cap, but older drivers could sport a bowler.  Bill

[wainwright1]

12 minutes ago, bbishop said:

I'm the custodian of the South Western Circle's photographic collection.  Locomotives were often posed for photographs with the crew draped in front of the buffer beam and in the cab.  Typical dress were baggy trousers, shirt, tie, waistcoat, pocket watch (driver) and maybe a high buttoned jacket.  I reckon these were blue cotton jackets.  And always a hat, more often than not a cloth cap, but older drivers could sport a bowler.  Bill

Afternoon Bish, what no petticoats ?

 

All the best

Ray

[bbishop]

42 minutes ago, wainwright1 said:

Afternoon Bish, what no petticoats ?

 

All the best

Ray

Not on the South Western; however, the Brighton was another matter.  Bill

[jaym481]

Thank you gentlement for the information. Certainly a good starting point. I plan to crack on with a few figures this weekend.

[flyingbadger]

On 22/07/2021 at 12:38, wainwright1 said:

Hi Jaym.

 

I am a member of the South Eastern and Chatham Railway Society. We had a talk about uniforms a couple of years ago by our former chairman and I can recall the following items:

 

Indoor staff - Station Masters, Guards, Ticket Collectors, Indoor Porters etc. Formal uniforms dark blue or black with brass buttons. Badges on caps and other embellishments on lapels etc embroidered with gold thread. I cannot remember for certainty what colour the ties were, but I think that it was green.

 

Outdoor staff - Principally porters, green corduroy trousers and waistcoats, the waistcoats having grey sleeves. The badges on their caps being cast in whitemetal.

 

If you email Chris Wilson on Chris Wilson • secronward@gmail.com, he should be able to refer your enquiry on to the relevant society members for a more detailed reply.

 

All the best

Ray

 

 

Hi Wainwright 1. Can you remember who that was?