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New GWR iron mink


ikcdab
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I see that Rail of Sheffield have announced their exclusive new OO iron mink.

The model looks excellent in the photos.

But it is £37 plus £4 p+p.

£41 for a OO wagon? I know it's exclusive, and I know about development costs, but it seems a lot to me. Is it that the only other option is the venerable ratio kit?

 

Am I being overly price-sensitive?

Ian C

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I think we might just have to adjust  ourselves to this new reality I’m afraid.  Do I like it?  Not particularly but I’ve ordered a BR version and as I’ve got some Oxford Rail wagons on pre order will have them all  shipped in one go which saves on the postage.  Oh and talking to the chap at Rails there’s a distinct possibility that we’ll get a yellow Portland Cement version in the future.

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6 minutes ago, ikcdab said:

I see that Rail of Sheffield have announced their exclusive new OO iron mink.

The model looks excellent in the photos.

But it is £37 plus £4 p+p.

£41 for a OO wagon? I know it's exclusive, and I know about development costs, but it seems a lot to me. Is it that the only other option is the venerable ratio kit?

 

Am I being overly price-sensitive?

Ian C

 

The venerable ABS kit.... :prankster:

 

I think you have probably answered your own question.

 

 

Are we really getting to the stage that people would rather pay £35 to £40 for a 00 Gauge RTR wagon than build an £8 kit that is so simple a ten year old child could build?

 

For the record I built loads of them when I was ten. Even easier than an Airfix Spitfire.

 

The Ratio kit is a bit wrong in the width and radius of the roof. But nothing you would notice. You even get proper wheels and bearings with them now.

 

 

Jason

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38 minutes ago, ikcdab said:

I know it's exclusive, and I know about development costs, but it seems a lot to me.

 

It's a limited production run on the same basis as the SECR van which quickly sold out. Yes, you may be able to produce it cheaper using traditional production methods but then Rails would probably need to produce, say, 10,000 which is a major outlay before sales.

 

Eagle E-Types seem pricey to me but they don't knock out a 1,000 a week of those.

 

No more price comments please (they're boring) unless you understand the economics and have a better alternative.

 

 

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.

 

The e-mail from Rails includes the words ;

 

"... Following on from the success of the SECR 1424 box van, we are excited to be able to offer a new model built using the same tried and tested method. ..."

 

So I assume it's another of their 3D fine printed wagons.

 

What I don't understand is as Iron Minks are so popular I cannot understand why it isn't just an ordinary injected moulded wagon.

 

.

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Yep these prices seem to be the new normal now, is what it is.

 

I'd feel more inclined to do kits if they were a bit more like airfix kits, with clear building and painting instructions and transfers included.

 

A couple of wagon kits I've tried have had dreadful instructions and not gone together particularly well and just not been remotely enjoyable for me. 

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Here's the real thing to compare:

 

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F

 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrb1787.htm

 

They're very nice models, but two things hit me right away - thick roof and the 'horse hook' holes in the solebars seem oversize (4½" dia. IIRC) plus the wheels seem to the standard Dapol product which is a bit heavy in the tyre. OK pedantic, but considering the price!

 

I'll stick with my ancient Ratio kits. They have their faults but....

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24 minutes ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

Yep these prices seem to be the new normal now, is what it is.

 

I'd feel more inclined to do kits if they were a bit more like airfix kits, with clear building and painting instructions and transfers included.

 

A couple of wagon kits I've tried have had dreadful instructions and not gone together particularly well and just not been remotely enjoyable for me. 


Ratio now Parkside kits include transfers and I’ve always found the instructions simple enough to follow.

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Hello everyone

 

All  the best to Rails on this announcement!

 

The van was High Polling in The 00 Wishlist Poll 2019 (as it was in 2018 and 2016. The Poll didn't run in 2017).

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

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There is nothing wrong with any kit as long as it the correctish dimensions and actually looks like what is supposed to be representing. Preperation and if needed research are the keys , before you start building anything and check for fit all the time.

 

The one big problem is ? how many new kits are actually being produced these days ?? Hardly any that I am aware off. Price is then immaterial, if people are willing to buy,  job done for the retailer, if the demand actually exists for a 1000 vans all virtually  the same, bar minor livery details .

 

I do not model the GWR , the Iron Mink, is it actually that much different from the Rapido Gunpower van ?? that will be injected mouded and presumably much better detail and more robust/stronger, 3D models are still very fragile and prone to warping.  I know which kind of model version I would go for !.   Looking at some photos it looks like just the doors are different ?

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6 minutes ago, Aire Head said:


Ratio now Parkside kits include transfers and I’ve always found the instructions simple enough to follow.

 

In the case of the iron MINK it almost puts itself together!  :rolleyes:

 

Some had the doors replaced in later years and the main difference from the gunpowder van is the end ventilator.

 

Note there are variations in the brakes - originally they had one side lever, then DC-1.

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10 minutes ago, Il Grifone said:

They're very nice models, but two things hit me right away - thick roof and the 'horse hook' holes in the solebars seem oversize (4½" dia. IIRC) plus the wheels seem to the standard Dapol product which is a bit heavy in the tyre.

I had been looking at the photos thinking something didnt look quite right (the huge NEM sockets under the wagon dont help, nor do the crude wheels).   But I think you are right, its the thick room that really spoils the look of it (particularly on such a small wagon.)   The brake gear looks a little on the crude side as well, especially at that sort of price point.  

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52 minutes ago, micklner said:

Looking at some photos it looks like just the doors are different ?

 

The body is identical apart from the roof, the corners, the strapping, the fittings; and the doors. :rolleyes:

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59 minutes ago, Aire Head said:


Ratio now Parkside kits include transfers and I’ve always found the instructions simple enough to follow.

My problem is no matter how good the instructions I always seem to end up with a slightly warped wagon which runs like a 3 legged dog...

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1 hour ago, phil gollin said:

 

What I don't understand is as Iron Minks are so popular I cannot understand why it isn't just an ordinary injected moulded wagon.

 

.

Much bigger (probably an order of magnitude or two more)  up front financial risk for injection moulding.  Then there's the risk of an 'accidental' Hornby / somebody else duplication spoiling sales. Plus, if the wagon sells relatively well it shouldn't be too difficult to bang out another 50 or so to meet orders I would think; whereas a second run of an injection moulding will need to be in the hundreds/thousands quantity wise so once again a big financial risk.

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Rapido SECR open wagons RRP £32,95.  Rails GWR Mink van RRP £36.95.

 

Both might seem pricey but it depends what you compare them with and, above all, there is something none of us should overlook.  - purchase of these items is not compulsory.  So the price is irrelevant if you do not wish to purchase them and presumably it is acceptable if you do decide to purchase them.

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There was a discussion within the last few hours on the Rapido SECR wagons thread about the difficulty of finding pre-Grouping wagon prototypes that lasted in quantity until the 1950s - a period modelled by many, and therefore seen as essential for a viable model. The conclusion drawn was that manufacturers were forced by this criterion to select prototypes that are "late pre-Grouping" - post Great War for the Rapido SECR wagons; the Rails SECR van goes back to 1909.

 

Rails are offering the Iron Mink in three liveries: with the 16" G W initials introduced in 1920 (which they describe as "late condition"); with the RCH 1936 standard small lettering; and in BR grey with black number panel. 

 

There were 4,901 Iron Minks built (including a handful of non-standard vehicles) between 1886 and 1901. The normal life in service of a 19th century goods wagon would be about a third of a century; one would on that basis expect Iron Minks to be more-or-less extinct before the 1936 livery was adopted. 

 

I have questioned the BR livery before in the thread on the Minerva 7 mm version, without getting a straight answer. I'll ask straight out here: can anyone actually say how many Iron Minks were still in ordinary revenue service in, say, 1939 and 1952? I'm willing to bet a Rails Mink to a Ratio one that the answer is, very few.

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2 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

The body is identical apart from the roof, the corners, the strapping, the fittings; and the doors. :rolleyes:

Well thats good to know how informative !! Good luck to the GWR modellers :locomotive:

 

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34 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

There was a discussion within the last few hours on the Rapido SECR wagons thread about the difficulty of finding pre-Grouping wagon prototypes that lasted in quantity until the 1950s - a period modelled by many, and therefore seen as essential for a viable model. The conclusion drawn was that manufacturers were forced by this criterion to select prototypes that are "late pre-Grouping" - post Great War for the Rapido SECR wagons; the Rails SECR van goes back to 1909.

 

Rails are offering the Iron Mink in three liveries: with the 16" G W initials introduced in 1920 (which they describe as "late condition"); with the RCH 1936 standard small lettering; and in BR grey with black number panel. 

 

There were 4,901 Iron Minks built (including a handful of non-standard vehicles) between 1886 and 1901. The normal life in service of a 19th century goods wagon would be about a third of a century; one would on that basis expect Iron Minks to be more-or-less extinct before the 1936 livery was adopted. 

 

I have questioned the BR livery before in the thread on the Minerva 7 mm version, without getting a straight answer. I'll ask straight out here: can anyone actually say how many Iron Minks were still in ordinary revenue service in, say, 1939 and 1952? I'm willing to bet a Rails Mink to a Ratio one that the answer is, very few.


Whilst admittedly it’s on its way to the knackers yard, there’s an iron mink in post-1936 livery in 1947 on Warwickshire Railways website here: https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrb1787.htm

 

 

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4 minutes ago, County of Yorkshire said:


Whilst admittedly it’s on its way to the knackers yard, there’s an iron mink in post-1936 livery in 1947 on Warwickshire Railways website here: https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrb1787.htm

 

 

 

Fourth photo?

 

Wrong length I'm afraid. Ex TVR design.

 

 

 

You might not be seeing them as they were mostly converted to Improvised Gunpowder Vans and were still in use by the military until the mid 1950s. One at the SVR.

 

https://www.svrwiki.com/GWR_58725_Improvised_Gunpowder_Van

 

 

Jason

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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

There was a discussion within the last few hours on the Rapido SECR wagons thread about the difficulty of finding pre-Grouping wagon prototypes that lasted in quantity until the 1950s - a period modelled by many, and therefore seen as essential for a viable model. The conclusion drawn was that manufacturers were forced by this criterion to select prototypes that are "late pre-Grouping" - post Great War for the Rapido SECR wagons; the Rails SECR van goes back to 1909.

 

Rails are offering the Iron Mink in three liveries: with the 16" G W initials introduced in 1920 (which they describe as "late condition"); with the RCH 1936 standard small lettering; and in BR grey with black number panel. 

 

There were 4,901 Iron Minks built (including a handful of non-standard vehicles) between 1886 and 1901. The normal life in service of a 19th century goods wagon would be about a third of a century; one would on that basis expect Iron Minks to be more-or-less extinct before the 1936 livery was adopted. 

 

I have questioned the BR livery before in the thread on the Minerva 7 mm version, without getting a straight answer. I'll ask straight out here: can anyone actually say how many Iron Minks were still in ordinary revenue service in, say, 1939 and 1952? I'm willing to bet a Rails Mink to a Ratio one that the answer is, very few.

 

A question I would like to know - plus how widespread did they get in BR days?

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9 minutes ago, JohnR said:

A question I would like to know - plus how widespread did they get in BR days?

 

After the introduction of pooling during the Great War, Iron Minks in general service could in principle be seen anywhere on the railways of Great Britain, so the 1920 livery version should be popular with anyone modelling the 1920s and perhaps early 30s, irrespective of location. But i suspect that any late survivors were retained for specific local requirements. Anyway, I'm waiting to be told the quantities!

 

Even before the Great War, they did travel off home metals - there's a photo I can't just now locate of a Webb Class A 3-cylinder compound 0-8-0 entering Carlisle on an express goods train, the first vehicle of which was an Iron Mink. That would be around the turn of the century. Which reminds me that several railways including the LNWR used Iron Mink clones as gunpowder vans, from c. 1904/5 when, I think, new RCH standards for such vehicles were introduced.

 

Those used to be available RTR too:

 

image.png.6edf859a6d05d7c25442e7a6352a39cf.png

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