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New layout help


Greg Moore
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Hello all, 

I have never properly constructed a model railway before and so would like to turn to you all for advice. I have a space of 38 in x 70 in (approx 3.2 ft x 5.8ft) and would like to model the cotswolds in n gauge, for this I have looked towards the Midland & South Western Junction Railway (M&SWJR) as a source of inspiration. Particularly the termini at Foss Cross, Withington and Chiseldon. I am particularly interested in constructing the scenery and buildings and have an idea as to what the layout would hopefully look like

IMG-5271.jpg.1b772d101ebb4b5fbbcc3e5651eddd6c.jpg

With the "ideal" trackplan being

Plan_1.jpg.e86e026eb7a4f2bf6be966e515520a07.jpg

I have little understanding of actual railway operations, so if anyone more knowledgeable has any ideas then that'd be great. Also what would such a design be like from a track laying and wiring viewpoint.

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Welcome to RMweb, Greg.  This looks like a good plan, but I think you need to draw it to scale, to see whether it can actually be done in the space you have.  It looks like it might work, but it is very easy to err on the optimistic side with freehand sketches and the pointwork and fiddle yard in particular will almost certainly take more space than you think.  There are computer based tools available (several free, or with free limited versions) if you prefer to work that way.

 

There's also the issue of accessibility: 38" is really too far to reach over, so you will need to be able to get to at least three sides of the layout as it stands.   If you have this space it might be better used by expanding the layout and operating from a hole in the middle.

 

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Looks like the layout has some great potential for scenery and operation. Track plan looks simple enough to wire should you require any help.

 

The Cotswolds is one of my favourite places to visit so I look forward to seeing it develop. I’ve got some great photos of the area and buildings should need any inspiration!

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37 minutes ago, Flying Pig said:

 

Welcome to RMweb, Greg.  This looks like a good plan, but I think you need to draw it to scale, to see whether it can actually be done in the space you have.  It looks like it might work, but it is very easy to err on the optimistic side with freehand sketches and the pointwork and fiddle yard in particular will almost certainly take more space than you think.  There are computer based tools available (several free, or with free limited versions) if you prefer to work that way.

 

 

Greg,

 

Anyrail is free but limits you to fifty pieces of track. However it will give you the chance to test the practibility of your plan and is easy to use.

https://www.anyrail.com/en/download

 

Good luck and enjoy yourself

 

Dave

 

p.s.  Where it says "Village" put a cutout that you can stand or sit in to play operate the layout.

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Hi Greg

 

 First impression - operationally a lot of fun, but I would consider rotating the layout through ninety degrees, so the fiddle yard is along the top and has more room for longer trains and the station is along the other long side. This would also allow more freight handling without the "long spotting roads" (to quote C J Freezer). You might also then be able to reverse the crossover currently at the top of the plan and put a loop around the outside platform to allow goods trains from the anticlockwise line to clear the mainline and shunt. I love designing so having poked the bear if you like I'll have a go at that plan.

 

Also, how long are your trains going to be?

Edited by CameronL
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Thanks for everyones comments, I might be easier to put something here than to respond to everyone.

So the layout will go under my bed for ease of storage. This is useful but naturally gives a height limit of 6''. Regarding having something at the centre, while 38'' is long with the layout not being against the wall means I can access all sides. But more importantly for me the construction of the scenery and model buildings is just as, if not more, important than running locos so I would like the keep that. 

 

In terms of prototypical modelling I intend to scratchbuild bridges based on the one at South Cerney and and the, now demolished, one at Chedworth using brick sheets. 

 

As for trackplans I initially fancied basing the layout on the M&SWJR section between Cirencester and Andoversford so making it double tracked and looking at Foss Cross and Withington as inspiration. I tried using any rail 6 to make a diagram but ran into issues making curves using flexitrack. Using settrack curves at third and fourth radius I got

TP_1.PNG.49ce33031ecac2cd6ce054d955f56cdc.PNG

This design leaves half a foot at the sides from using set track, but more importantly only leaves a foot between the end of the track and tunnel mouth, hardly enough for  a long bridge and embankment leasing up to the tunnel mouth. 

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1 hour ago, LDM34046 said:

Looks like the layout has some great potential for scenery and operation. Track plan looks simple enough to wire should you require any help.

 

The Cotswolds is one of my favourite places to visit so I look forward to seeing it develop. I’ve got some great photos of the area and buildings should need any inspiration!

I went a while ago and was struck how lovely it was and thought it would be good to model. Thanks for the offer of photos, currently Im looking for places on google earth, finding prototype buildings in Bourton-on-the water, Northleach and the surrounding areas. Im trying to scratchbuild  these buildings, heres one Ive done 

 

IMG-4651.JPG.0c4aca2f5c5a3371f9743c9e285abe57.JPGIMG-4652.JPG.812b2839feb3aa714b5ef9c5515980da.JPG

I've also found some interesting prototype bridges to model, those being South Cerney (above) and Chedworth (Below).

image.png.3cb2aaf45c102880ff43c1549b91ccad.png

image.png.088fa5751824564cbfe06d6de3cb9c92.png

 

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34 minutes ago, Greg Moore said:

I tried using any rail 6 to make a diagram but ran into issues making curves using flexitrack. 

 

Right click an unconnected piece of flexitrack and select "curve flex" from the popup menu.  Enter angle (in degrees, maximum 90) and radius.  The result is a pure arc, like a piece of setrack.

 

I think you could increase the radius of your main line to 15" or 16" which might be enough to reduce the track spacing and use streamline points.  

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43 minutes ago, CameronL said:

Hi Greg

 

 First impression - operationally a lot of fun, but I would consider rotating the layout through ninety degrees, so the fiddle yard is along the top and has more room for longer trains and the station is along the other long side. This would also allow more freight handling without the "long spotting roads" (to quote C J Freezer). You might also then be able to reverse the crossover currently at the top of the plan and put a loop around the outside platform to allow goods trains from the anticlockwise line to clear the mainline and shunt. I love designing so having poked the bear if you like I'll have a go at that plan.

 

Also, how long are your trains going to be?

I get what you mean, often the fiddle yard is done this way. I was hoping to maximise the amount of scenery and buildings on display, even if this means reducing the length of trains. I intend not to run too much stock, mostly praries and collett goods like things carrying milk, coal minor passenger services and maybe some wartime traffic to add interest. I quite like the "Dartmoor scene" like thing of having two opposing bridges and the curved platforms. The loop around the top was another idea I was considering after seeing Foss Cross 

image.png.43d80e05d357664ccce71ddc5b1140fd.png

But I was wondering about where to position the protruding sidings coming of the top loop.

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8 minutes ago, Flying Pig said:

 

Right click an unconnected piece of flexitrack and select "curve flex" from the popup menu.  Enter angle (in degrees, maximum 90) and radius.  The result is a pure arc, like a piece of setrack.

 

I think you could increase the radius of your main line to 15" or 16" which might be enough to reduce the track spacing and use streamline points.  

Ah thanks. What track spacing would be correct for n gauge?

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Hi Greg, 

 

One of the things I find most helpful is to print out the free to download point images from PECO as I have found that whilst Anyrail can be helpful for initial ideas it is easy to underestimate curves/the space needed to pass over points. Printing the points out and laying them on the board just helps illustrate everything to me.

 

https://peco-uk.com/collections/turn-out-crossing-plans/narrow-gauge+n-9mm

 

That should be a link if you'd find it helpful. This assumes of course you're using Peco track.

 

All the best

Edited by Karl
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46 minutes ago, Greg Moore said:

I went a while ago and was struck how lovely it was and thought it would be good to model. Thanks for the offer of photos, currently Im looking for places on google earth, finding prototype buildings in Bourton-on-the water, Northleach and the surrounding areas. Im trying to scratchbuild  these buildings, heres one Ive done 

 

Bourton-on-the-water offers some great buildings. I'd also recommend places such as Burford and Lower Slaughter.

 

1773261469_Screenshot2021-07-26at20_58_44.png.8f72f1c592ad2a78e062b46f8cf2381f.png

 

 

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