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Was there a “standard” DB 2-10-0?


jools1959
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I was looking through some old railway books and I came across one about DB’s 2-10-0. The pictures were interesting but it was in German, so I couldn’t understand it (I sometimes struggle with English after my stroke and it’s more gibberish at times :blush:).

 

I was looking through them and what struck me was they all looked very similar, so I was wondering if anyone could explain the difference between them.  I appreciate that some were two cylinder machines and the rest three, also some were converted to oil firing.  
 

Also, some were fitted with what I’d assume was a guards compartment in the tender.  Was that for a particular reason or just a certain class that had them?  The pictures in the book, seemed to shown just the Class 051 had them fitted.

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The history of the Deutsche Reichsbahn standard 2-10-0s begins during the First World War. during which the sundry railways of the German Empire, then under the administration of its constituent states and hence fairly disparate in their motive power, faced wartime conditions which had exacerbated the supply and maintenance problems inherent to the operation of unstandardized equipment to the point of intolerability. The national railway administration therefore chose the Prussian Class G12 to serve as their common standard design of heavy freight locomotive. It is of note that this was a three cylinder machine, and that this influenced subsequent design.

 

After the war, and the merger and nationalization of the state railways, the nascent Reichsbahn pursued standardization further; proscribing the construction of several standard classes (literally translated construction series, or baurehie). (It is, however, interesting to note that the German standard locomotive policy anticipated the British; prior to the development of these standard classes, the DR continued to build certain pre-nationalization classes under its own auspices). The first of these standard classes relevant to this expostulation were the BR 43 and BR 44. In accordance with contemporary disputes as to the relative merits of 2-cylinder locomotives vs. 3 and 4-cylinder locomotives, the otherwise-identical BR 43 and BR 44 were built with 2 and 3 cylinders, respectively. The BR 43 was slightly more economical (at low speeds), but the BR 44 had better performance; the BR 44 was therefore built in greater numbers.

 

The Reichsbahn, thus possessed of a very satisfactory heavy freight engine, continued to build and operate it as their pre-eminent standard class thereof—until 1939, when the war and consequently increased traffic rendered necessary the procurement of more motive power, and for lines too light to take the BR 43's axle loading. A smaller engine, the BR 50, was therefore developed, and owing to their greater versatility built in greater numbers. As the war continued and material shortages developed, the BR 44 and BR 50 were therefore simplified, first into "transitional war locomotive" versions thereof, and finally into further simplified separate classes, the Kriegsloks: the BR 42 and Br 52. The BR 42 was too heavy for the lighter railways of most of the territories occupied by the Third Reich, so that the BR 52 was built in greater numbers, eventually becoming the single most numerous class of German 2-10-0.

 

As to the fates of the engines dispersed to other countries after the war; that is rather involved, and would constitute a digression. Suffice to say that the Deutsche Bundesbahn considered the BR 52s too oversimplified and roughly built for their service, and dismantled them for common parts to rebuild their BR 50s, while the East German Deutsche Reichsbahn rebuilt theirs into better engines, having fewer class 50s available. 

 

The DB 050, 051, 052, and 053 were just subclasses of the class 50 as determined by the 1968 DB renumbering, distinguished by such minor variations as oil firing and brakeman's cab. This was to obviate the use of the similar cab fitted to some covered wagons, which was, of course, not present on all rolling stock.

 

 

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The fact DB was still giving the 50s heavy overhauls and converting them to oil firing as late as 1971 shows how useful they were. If it hadn't been for the oil crisis who knows if they might have lasted beyond 1977.

 

DR was building new boilers for theirs into the 1960s and coal-fired ones survived until 1987.

 

Cheers

David

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I agree thoroughly with Cunningham Loco Works' remarks - but would add that as far the Deutsche Reichsbahn der DDR was concerned, the most ubiquitous 2-10-0, right up to the end of steam, was the BR 52, which has also survived preserved in good numbers. They were designed to be cheap, quick to build and robust and to have a limited life. They are certainly robust!

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13 hours ago, jools1959 said:

I was looking through some old railway books and I came across one about DB’s 2-10-0. The pictures were interesting but it was in German, so I couldn’t understand it (I sometimes struggle with English after my stroke and it’s more gibberish at times :blush:).

 

I was looking through them and what struck me was they all looked very similar, so I was wondering if anyone could explain the difference between them.  I appreciate that some were two cylinder machines and the rest three, also some were converted to oil firing.  
 

Also, some were fitted with what I’d assume was a guards compartment in the tender.  Was that for a particular reason or just a certain class that had them?  The pictures in the book, seemed to shown just the Class 051 had them fitted.

 

 

In simple terms, the Deutsche Reichsbahn  Gesellschaft (DRG) of the inter-war years set out to have a complete fleet of 'standard locomotives'. These are known as 'Einheitslokomotive'.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einheitsdampflokomotive

 

Virtually every one of these DRG design locos shared the same style, which is why post WW1 German locos feature for example similar cabs on a loco as small as an 0-6-0 to one as large as a 2-10-2.  

 

There were three classes of 'Einheitslok' with 2-10-0 wheel arrangement, Class 43, 44 and 50

 

Due to the computer numbering introduced by DB (west Germany) in 1968, the class 50 became 050, 051, 052 and 053. This always confuses 'lay enthusiasts' because an 052 was nothing to do with the wartime class 52.

 

The class 52 austerity war locomotive (Kriegslok) was very 'standard' fleet but was not an 'Einheitslok' 

 

To explain the 050, 051, 052 etc conundrum, as there were more than 3000 in the fleet. The DB had to do it this way because of their chosen way of computerising the class number fixed to 3 digits. So the 050 was simple 50 167 became 050 167, but 50 1568 had to become 051 568, 50 2774 = 052 774, and 50 3008 = 053 008

 

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8 hours ago, DavidB-AU said:

The fact DB was still giving the 50s heavy overhauls and converting them to oil firing as late as 1971 shows how useful they were. If it hadn't been for the oil crisis who knows if they might have lasted beyond 1977.

Cheers

David

 

There were never any oil fired DB class 50s to my knowledge

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2 hours ago, Gordonwis said:

 

 

In simple terms, the Deutsche Reichsbahn  Gesellschaft (DRG) of the inter-war years set out to have a complete fleet of 'standard locomotives'. These are known as 'Einheitslokomotive'.

 

There were three classes of 'Einheitslok' with 2-10-0 wheel arrangement, Class 43, 44 and 50

 

 

I should clarify that the original 1920s Br43 all ended up in the GDR, so when DB computerised they used the available designation 043 for the oil fire conversions of DB class 44s. The DB class 043 were the last 2-10-0s in service on DB, lasting to the end of DB steam on Rheine-Emden in autumn  1977.

 

Indeed 043 904 hauled the last ever DB steam train in October 1977

2 hours ago, Gordonwis said:

 

 

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European locos are also described by the number of axles, not wheels.  e.g 1-5-0.  Pacifics are 231s. etc.

 

I also found that learning some German was the only way forward when dealing with German model rail.

There are many translators available on the internet.

 

Here's some reliable history in English at DBTrains Website.

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7 hours ago, Vinedusk said:

European locos are also described by the number of axles, not wheels.  e.g 1-5-0.  Pacifics are 231s. etc.

 

That is true for France; the Germans however use a letter for the number of driving axles, 231 becomes 2C1 and a 150 is a 1E.

Regards

Fred

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8 hours ago, Vinedusk said:

European locos are also described by the number of axles, not wheels.  e.g 1-5-0.  Pacifics are 231s. etc.

 

I also found that learning some German was the only way forward when dealing with German model rail.

There are many translators available on the internet.

 

Here's some reliable history in English at DBTrains Website.

 

One confusing quirk of German is that a tank loco is called a Tenderlok

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21 hours ago, Gordonwis said:

 

There were never any oil fired DB class 50s to my knowledge

 

72 were converted and were reclassed as the 50.50.

 

Also one 50.40 was converted.

 

504011oel.jpg.157f0ed252ea81f51b0f54f6e05f4749.jpg

 

Cheers

David

 

 

Edited by DavidB-AU
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The Class 50 was definitely the "Standard" heavy freight locomotive of the DB, particularly after 1955 or so. The Kriegsloks were not built to last, it appears, and they were removed from service relatively quickly in West Germany. The DB also kept and cherished their remaining 44s, using them on many very heavy freights, but the 50 was very much the "maid of all work". 

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On 30/07/2021 at 12:50, DavidB-AU said:
On 29/07/2021 at 15:17, Gordonwis said:

 

There were never any oil fired DB class 50s to my knowledge

 

72 were converted and were reclassed as the 50.50.

 

Also one 50.40 was converted.

 

 

50.4011, which was a Franco-Crosti rebuild (1958), became the only example of a DB class 50 to be converted to oil firing (in 1959, the loco was withdrawn in 1967).

 

It was the DR that used the classification 50.50 for its oil-fired locos - which were re-numbered in the 50.00xx-x series from 1969 (and hence commonly referred to as 50.00).

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On 30/07/2021 at 20:40, WM183 said:

The DB also kept and cherished their remaining 44s...

 

The 44 was a beautiful smooth riding beast... 

 

 

If BR had followed the DB einheitsdampflok programme, we might have had a 3 cylinder version of the 9F, and a standard 2-8-2 based on the Clan.... analogous to the the 01/44 03/42 pairing of DB.

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On 04/08/2021 at 12:51, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

 

If BR had followed the DB einheitsdampflok programme, we might have had a 3 cylinder version of the 9F, and a standard 2-8-2 based on the Clan.... analogous to the the 01/44 03/42 pairing of DB.

 

Hi,

 

just to be consistent, the Einheitsdampflok programme was the standardisation programme of the inter war-time German state railways (Deutsche Reichsbahn Gesellschaft, DRG). Post-war west German Deutsche Bundesbahn (DB) and east German Deutsche Reichsbahn (DR) set up their own programmes in the early and mid-fifties. However, as the DRG standard locos were in service in vast amounts post-war (and until the end of steam), both post-war companies maintained, improved and modernised their Einheitsloks

 

Classes 01 and 44 were related but not really twins - class 01 is a two-cylinder while class 44 is a three cylinder engine. Moreover, the class 01 boiler is longer and thus, class 01 is a bit stronger (2240 hp in contrast to 1910 hp of class 44, both related to coal fired versions). More related to the class 01 is the 2 cylinder version of class 44, class 43.

 

In contrast to that, classes 03 (Pacific) and 41 (Mikado) are related, their major difference is the driving gear. Boiler and cylinders are of the same dimensions.

 

Btw, also class 50 had a passenger train sister: 2-6-2 class 23 of 1941. Very smooth engine, unfortunately built during the war, just two prototypes built. Predecessor of post-war developments of DB class 23 and DR class 23.10.

 

Back to the 2-10-0 engines bult by the Reichsbahn. Basically, it is just two loco families, one light (classes 50/52) and one heavier (classes 43/44 and 42):

 

standard programme:

class 43 (two cylinder, axle load 20 tons, 1880 hp), built 1926-2, 35 altogether;

class 44 (three cylinder, axle loand 20 tons, 1910 hp), pre-series 1926, principal series built 1937-43, approx. 2000 altogether;

class 50 (two cylinder, axle load 15 tons, 1625 hp), built 1939-43, approx. 3000 altogether;

 

 

 

 

war time austerity programme:

class 42 (two cylinder, axle load 18 tons, 1800 hp), built 1943-49, 1061 altogether incl. engines built post-war.

class 52 (two cylinder, axle load 15 tons, 1610 hp), built 1942-51, approx. 7000 altogether incl. engines built post-war.

 

Class 52 basically is a simplified class 50. Class 42 provides for a newly developped loco chassis with a shortened boiler of class 44, but 2 instead of three cylinders.  

 

Of course, due to the sheer amount and partially long operating period, various subclasses have been created by modernisation (e.g. oil-firing, wind deflectors of different type), special purposes (class 52 condensation tender), rebuilding (class 52.80 of DR rebuilt as of 1961, today the most widespread hisoric steam loco type in Germany).

 

 

Having said this, some of the engines as pictures for comparison purposes:

 

41824499np.jpg

Class 43 engine 43 007. Ex works condition 1926/27 without wind deflectors. Model by Fleischmann.

 

31669603kq.jpg

Class 44 engine 44 244. Classes 43 and 44 share the same boiler, but mind the boiler superstructures which have changed from 1926 to 1939 when 44 244 was outshopped. The tender also has changed from a riveted type to a welded type. Epoch II (era 3) version, model by roco.

 

39524199tc.jpg

Class 50 with its smaller boiler and smaller tender. Epoch II (era 3) version, model by roco.

 

37937843od.jpg

Class 42 in its initial epoch II livery. Germany's first loco class equipped with Witte wind deflectors. Coupled with a "trough" (Wannen-) tender (as this tender is based on the lower part of a tank wagon), which is typical for classes 42 and 52. Model by Trix.

 

 

Best regards,

Mark

 

    

 

 

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Hi,

a lot of correct information.

I have two additional comments:

 

The simplified "Kriegslokomotiven" 42 and 52 were built with a planned life span of 15 years. That was the easiest way to reach the reduction in material and labor. Isn't this a strange decision to loose a whole fleet of engines just after the planned capture of Europe?

The class 50 was the only tender engine with the same max speed of 80km/h forward and backward. This means that it could be used on branch lines without turntables at the terminal stations.

 

Michal

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3 hours ago, michl080 said:

The class 50 was the only tender engine with the same max speed of 80km/h forward and backward. This means that it could be used on branch lines without turntables at the terminal stations.

 

And that's why I have three to run my branch line.  Actually it might be 4, I'd have to check!

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On 30/07/2021 at 11:19, Andy Kirkham said:

 

One confusing quirk of German is that a tank loco is called a Tenderlok

 

That is not unique to German. In French a tank locomotive is a 'locomotive-tender'. It is actually British parlance that is exceptional. 'Tenderlok'  is  logical linguistics, as the 'tender' is attached to the loco.

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On 04/08/2021 at 11:37, EddieB said:

 

50.4011, which was a Franco-Crosti rebuild (1958), became the only example of a DB class 50 to be converted to oil firing (in 1959, the loco was withdrawn in 1967).

 

It was the DR that used the classification 50.50 for its oil-fired locos - which were re-numbered in the 50.00xx-x series from 1969 (and hence commonly referred to as 50.00).

 

Thanks - I thought I wasn't mistaken

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On 30/07/2021 at 20:40, WM183 said:

The Class 50 was definitely the "Standard" heavy freight locomotive of the DB,

 

Not sure that's completely true. The 50s were 'lightweight' compared to the 44s, and were more of a 'go anywhere' freight and mixed traffic loco , rather than heavy freight locos.

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On 21/08/2021 at 00:46, Gordonwis said:

 

Not sure that's completely true. The 50s were 'lightweight' compared to the 44s, and were more of a 'go anywhere' freight and mixed traffic loco , rather than heavy freight locos.

 

Yes. And in the rest of my post - which you did not quote, I see - I said precisely that.

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The spread of the 8000 or so Br52 "Kriegslok" after the war was considerable, extending throughout Eastern Europe, the then Soviet Union, Turkey, and I believe Vietnam and possibly Cuba.

 

This link shows one of the Romanian ones, taken when part of their museum fleet, at Sibiu in 1996. I think most Romanian steam was oil-burning, as is the case here.

 

Sibiu - 150.1105 plus railcars

 

 

John.

Edited by John Tomlinson
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On 28/08/2021 at 14:33, John Tomlinson said:

The spread of the 8000 or so Br52 "Kriegslok" after the war was considerable, extending throughout Eastern Europe, the then Soviet Union, Turkey, and I believe Vietnam and possibly Cuba.

 

This link shows one of the Romanian ones, taken when part of their museum fleet, at Sibiu in 1996. I think most Romanian steam was oil-burning, as is the case here.

 

Sibiu - 150.1105 plus railcars

 

 

John.

 

Nicely turned out locomotive & i do like the "whitewalls".

 

Is it me or are the smoke deflectors on the wrong way round ?

 

 

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2 hours ago, SamThomas said:

 

Nicely turned out locomotive & i do like the "whitewalls".

 

Is it me or are the smoke deflectors on the wrong way round ?

 

 

 

I suspect they aren't the originals, and have been improvised somewhere in the course of the loco's life. If you click on the picture I put a history of the loco with the post on Flickr.

 

I agree, they do look odd. The pictures above of the DB and DR models show both tapering larger towards the front. Given the turnunder, its more as if they've been put on the wrong sides of the loco, right should be left and v.v.

 

John.

Edited by John Tomlinson
added "Given the turnunder..."
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