Cardiff-Bristol- Portsmouth

[Downendian]

Class 37s made an occasional appearance.

and back to DMUs, just before the 31s took over in late 1976, class 123s were certainly being used.

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/bristol-to-salisbury.html

in early 1979 us Bristol spotters joined the bashing (haulage) craze, transitting between Temple Meads and Bath spa. We were pleasantly surprised to see 33s appearing on the route, indeed I recall a 33 taking us to Swindon for the works open day in May, a few months later they were firmly in charge of the route.

 

Another question though, did the Portsmouth-Cardiff stock then be used on the Cardiff-Crewe services? This would coincide with the 31s taking over in late 1976 when class 25s were being used on the Cardiff-Crewes.

[brushman47544]

11 hours ago, Downendian said:

Class 37s made an occasional appearance.

 

 

37269 near Newport according to flickr. I doubt that the 37 got further than Bristol TM because of issues with traction knowledge of SR drivers.

[pc3163]

Thanks guys. Might have a go with the DC Kits 119 at some stage but I'll make do with the 31, 33/1 & 205 for the moment.

[Northroader]

The main trouble with the class 123 intercity dmus seemed to be the batteries, or more particularly the demands made on them. When they appeared on the Portsmouth run, I did a few trips on them.The Southern drivers were instructed to shut down engines whilst on turn round at Portsmouth Harbour, but we soon realised if they did, they’d never restart when the departure time came. It looked like sets were running an engine short through flat batteries quite often.

[keefer]

Regarding the cl.119, only one unit got early blue livery (BSYP with white roof domes), the rest went from green to blue/grey from c.1967.

https://railcar.co.uk/type/class-119/liveries

[jonny777]

1 hour ago, brushman47544 said:

 

37269 near Newport according to flickr. I doubt that the 37 got further than Bristol TM because of issues with traction knowledge of SR drivers.

 

Most probably, but the reversal of trains at Temple Meads was a pretty slick operation, with the next loco sitting in a short spur between platforms at the north/eastern end of the station, ready to back on as quickly as possible. I cannot remember any loco actually running round its train. 

[brushman47544]

3 hours ago, jonny777 said:

 

Most probably, but the reversal of trains at Temple Meads was a pretty slick operation, with the next loco sitting in a short spur between platforms at the north/eastern end of the station, ready to back on as quickly as possible. I cannot remember any loco actually running round its train. 

 

I agree, but equally some diagrams involved locos arriving from Portsmouth and continuing later to Cardiff (and vice versa) to allow an exchange of locos for the marches line, whereas the 37 will have probably gone straight back to Cardiff.

[Gwiwer]

By the later 1970s (not sure of the exact date) the Portsmouth - Cardiff stock was all based at Canton.  As such it was probably common-user with the Marches line though those trains were not always as long as the Pompeys.  5 or 6 on the latter, 4 sometimes 5 to Manchester or Crewe in my memory.  The random formation were also a feature.  Dilton Marsh required precise stopping where ever the guard was in the train as it only accommodated a single coach (and today only the front door on the train is released) but the stock might have one or two brakes anywhere and not infrequently a BG somewhere in the rake including - sometimes - in the middle which confused passengers walking through hoping to find seats farther along the train.  

 

After the RMB was withdrawn (which took the CF sets down from 6 to 5 coaches most of the time and resulted in the withdrawal of blue/grey Gresley buffet W9135E) a trolley service was occasionally provided without any prior notice.  I have found this in the BG, in the BSK cage and on other occasions actually being taken through the train.  I only spoke with a couple of the attendants both of whom said that they normally worked the Marches line but when spare were sent to Portsmouth.  

[jonny777]

Thanks Gwiwer, you have answered a question which used to bug me 35-40 years ago; which was why occasional BSKs seemed to be found in multiple on the Portsmouth services than any others I travelled on in those days. 

[Joseph_Pestell]

Back in the early 70s I was not interested in traction. But this thread has reminded me of a trip with the school Army Cadets to Sennybridge in July 1971. We changed at Newport onto a Class 123 for the leg to Abergavenny.

[Northroader]

One peculiarity with the 123s on the Portsmouth run was going over the Junction at Romsey, where the rails for Eastleigh passed underneath a set heading for Southampton. They were of course fitted with the old Western AWS gear, and the shoe would hit the rail on the cant and sound the hooter.

[St. Simon]

Hi,

 

I’m going to go slightly off topic, but did Wessex Trains run their 31-hauled stock on the Portsmouth - Cardiff runs (I assume via Fareham?) 

 

I can’t find any photographic evidence, but it seems that they did.

 

Sorry to pull the thread off the original timescales, but it seemed the most appropriate place.

 

Simon

[br2975]

2 hours ago, St. Simon said:

Hi,

 

I’m going to go slightly off topic, but did Wessex Trains run their 31-hauled stock on the Portsmouth - Cardiff runs (I assume via Fareham?) 

 

I can’t find any photographic evidence, but it seems that they did.

 

Sorry to pull the thread off the original timescales, but it seemed the most appropriate place.

 

Simon

My son lived in Southampton for several years, and would come home occasionally by train.

.

I picked him up one Friday evening at Cardiff Central, after he had made the journey behind a brace of Cl.31s and IIRC air con stock.

.

This would be post 2000.

.

Brian R

[br2975]

18th March, 1989 and 33106 and 4TC 8026  arrive at Cardiff with a Wales v England 'Rugex' ex Southampton.

.

Brian R

[young37215]

On 09/09/2020 at 15:44, Gwiwer said:

By the later 1970s (not sure of the exact date) the Portsmouth - Cardiff stock was all based at Canton.  As such it was probably common-user with the Marches line though those trains were not always as long as the Pompeys.  5 or 6 on the latter, 4 sometimes 5 to Manchester or Crewe in my memory.

 

I was a frequent user of the Portsmouth Cardiff services around the Bristol area in the late 70's and early 8o's as a desperate youthful haulage basher. I am in no position to challenge the above assertion but the late 70's, early 80's Pompey trains were ETH and the Cardiff Crewe were steam heat. If the Canton Mk1 stock was dual heat then no issues with it being interchangeable but I don't recall the Cardiff Crewe stock being dual heat until the 33's took over in the early 80's. From memory the Cardiff Crewe stock was particularly dilapidated and usually on its last legs which suggests to me that it would likely have been steam heat only. 

[Kris]

21 hours ago, St. Simon said:

Hi,

 

I’m going to go slightly off topic, but did Wessex Trains run their 31-hauled stock on the Portsmouth - Cardiff runs (I assume via Fareham?) 

 

I can’t find any photographic evidence, but it seems that they did.

 

Sorry to pull the thread off the original timescales, but it seemed the most appropriate place.

 

Simon

I never saw them on that service and I was living in Wilts at the time. 

 

[Grampus]

On 09/09/2020 at 09:44, brushman47544 said:

 

37269 near Newport according to flickr. I doubt that the 37 got further than Bristol TM because of issues with traction knowledge of SR drivers.

Evening all,

 

sorry I'm late to this discussion but on  one occasion I certainly witnessed a blue 37 on a Bristol-Portsmouth service at Salisbury.  Sadly I cannot  recall either the loco's identity or the date (my notes are long gone), but it was a Saturday evening (there was a departure at about 1820, i recall)  in early summer, almost certainly 1983.  All a bit vague, I know, but it stuck in my memory because it was unusual.  Certainly the loco continued on past Salisbury, presumably returning west later in the evening.  I would love to know if anybody knows more.   Happy days.

 

Best wishes, 

 

Paul

[Miserable]

Re the 37. In the late 70s/early 80s a 37 on this train would only be due to engine shortages/a failure, it was very much a 31 turn, replaced in part by 'Hampshire' units for a while, then by a mixture of 33 +5 and 2x3 car units that split at Westbury, first half to Portsmouth, second half to Weymouth. This was my links only passenger turn - we never had ticket training, so freebies all round (the public worked it out). As an aside, 37s were standard on the Eastleigh and Northam yards to Severn Tunnel Junction, East Usk, Carlisle and a couple of others I can't remember just now.

 

[MidlandRed]

On 9 September 2020 at 10:43, keefer said:

Regarding the cl.119, only one unit got early blue livery (BSYP with white roof domes), the rest went from green to blue/grey from c.1967.

https://railcar.co.uk/type/class-119/liveries

 

Off main topic but may be of interest I recorded W51062, W59421, W51090 and W51065, W59424, W51093 in blue syp at Birmingham New Street on 30/8/67. As stated on railcar.co.uk, W51062 in that livery was a photo in the 1970 Ian Allan Combined Volume. 

 

Conversely, W51055, W59417, W51083 at BNS in blue/grey fye on 21/8/67 (the first DMU set id seen in this livery). 

 

There were a several batch 1 and batch 3 class 120 cross country sets and cars around in the early Swindon blue syp (included red buffer beam and white cab roof). 

 

The class 123 sets were employed on Cardiff - Portsmouth in the 60s when quite new. 

Edited September 11, 2020 by MidlandRed

[TravisM]

On 10/09/2020 at 21:51, St. Simon said:

Hi,

 

I’m going to go slightly off topic, but did Wessex Trains run their 31-hauled stock on the Portsmouth - Cardiff runs (I assume via Fareham?) 

 

I can’t find any photographic evidence, but it seems that they did.

 

Sorry to pull the thread off the original timescales, but it seemed the most appropriate place.

 

Simon

As I worked for Wessex Trains at the time, the top and tailed Class 31’s worked the FO BTM-BTN service only, leaving Bristol about 13.00 if I remember right.

[St. Simon]

9 hours ago, jools1959 said:

As I worked for Wessex Trains at the time, the top and tailed Class 31’s worked the FO BTM-BTN service only, leaving Bristol about 13.00 if I remember right.

 

Hi

 

That's fine, I was looking more at them running through Fareham on the Cardiff - Brighton Axis.

 

There's videos on YouTube of them departing Havant for Brighton, which I assume means that they went via Fareham, but nothing (that I've seen) to say they did go through Fareham.

 

Simon

[Grampus]

13 hours ago, Miserable said:

Re the 37. In the late 70s/early 80s a 37 on this train would only be due to engine shortages/a failure, it was very much a 31 turn, replaced in part by 'Hampshire' units for a while, then by a mixture of 33 +5 and 2x3 car units that split at Westbury, first half to Portsmouth, second half to Weymouth. This was my links only passenger turn - we never had ticket training, so freebies all round (the public worked it out). As an aside, 37s were standard on the Eastleigh and Northam yards to Severn Tunnel Junction, East Usk, Carlisle and a couple of others I can't remember just now.

 

By the time of my sighting,  Bristol-Pompeys were solid Crompton, unless, as you say, there was a shortfall or the loco sat down somewhere west, so the one I saw was certainly not normal fare and certainly a replacement.  Pairs of 37s also turned up at Salisbury on Yeoman PGAs for a while during that period (early 80s) so again,  as you say, they were by no means unknown in the area, if not common at that stage.  

 

Cheers, 

 

Paul

[TravisM]

4 hours ago, St. Simon said:

 

Hi

 

That's fine, I was looking more at them running through Fareham on the Cardiff - Brighton Axis.

 

There's videos on YouTube of them departing Havant for Brighton, which I assume means that they went via Fareham, but nothing (that I've seen) to say they did go through Fareham.

 

Simon

 

Hi Simon, 

 

They certainly would have gone through Fareham as the route was;  Bristol Temple Meads, Bath Spa, Bradford-on-Avon, Trowbridge, Westbury, Warminster, Salisbury, Romsey, Southampton Central, Fareham, Havant and on towards Brighton.  I can't remember the rest of the stops as I wasn't on that link.  I hope that helps.

[acg5324]

As has been said the c31s worked the BTM to BTN..... I was duty Train service Manager for the Sussex Coast area when one of the Locos was reported out of fuel at Worthing. The second loco ran out of fuel at Southwick. All around it class 377s. We had one 4VEP at Lovers Walk and this was sent wrong road to Southwick to drag the train into Hove and clear the line. This duly happened with the grids on the 4VEP glowing a bit! 

A couple of days later the 4VEP blew up whilst on an East Grinstead working bring the job to a stand still......can’t remember the unit number.

[Gwiwer]

7 hours ago, jools1959 said:

Havant and on towards Brighton.  I can't remember the rest of the stops

Cosham became a regular stop.  The Brightons called only at Havant, Chichester, Barnham, Worthing and Brighton at that time.  Subsequently the remaining (now GWR) service along the Sussex coast has had stops at Hove and Shoreham added as much for pathing as passenger traffic as the trains are timed very closely behind others and invariably close up to red signals even with the extra stops.  

 

For a number of years the Brighton service ran via Portsmouth (though I cannot recall whether they ran up to the Harbour) at a considerable time penalty but taking advantage of the then multiple-unit formation with no need to run round.