Cardiff-Bristol- Portsmouth

[TravisM]

15 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

Cosham became a regular stop.  The Brightons called only at Havant, Chichester, Barnham, Worthing and Brighton at that time.  Subsequently the remaining (now GWR) service along the Sussex coast has had stops at Hove and Shoreham added as much for pathing as passenger traffic as the trains are timed very closely behind others and invariably close up to red signals even with the extra stops.  

 

For a number of years the Brighton service ran via Portsmouth (though I cannot recall whether they ran up to the Harbour) at a considerable time penalty but taking advantage of the then multiple-unit formation with no need to run round.  

I forgot Cosham and to be honest, it’s over 15 years ago and I’m getting old 

[pc3163]

Realtrack's RT156-311 in Regional livery has destination Cardiff-Portsmouth. According to Hattons this would be Era 8 1983-1994. Agreed? Does anyone have any pictures of this configuration on the Cardiff-Portsmouth service?

[The Pilotman]

20 minutes ago, pc3163 said:

Realtrack's RT156-311 in Regional livery has destination Cardiff-Portsmouth. According to Hattons this would be Era 8 1983-1994. Agreed? Does anyone have any pictures of this configuration on the Cardiff-Portsmouth service?

How about this one:

 

http://www.hondawanderer.com/156438_Sherrington_1989.htm

 

which looks like it was taken at the same location as the one on Realtrack’s website.

 

 

[Tim Hall]

There was a Saturday 31 t and t train into 2004, seen here on 2nd Jan 04 at Bath. Can't remember the destination though...

[pc3163]

Thanks Western Aviator. That'll do nicely.

[Gwiwer]

2 hours ago, pc3163 said:

Realtrack's RT156-311 in Regional livery has destination Cardiff-Portsmouth. According to Hattons this would be Era 8 1983-1994. Agreed? Does anyone have any pictures of this configuration on the Cardiff-Portsmouth service?

No pictures but 156s did operate this service for a short time before the 158s became available.  

[andy stroud]

156 470 together with 205 032 at Salisbury on 6 May 1989, which co incidently is the same date as the above link to Martin Loaders' website.

 

 

[Dibatag]

16 hours ago, Tim Hall said:

There was a Saturday 31 t and t train into 2004, seen here on 2nd Jan 04 at Bath. Can't remember the destination though...

That would mostly probably be the Bristol to Weymouth ( saturdays only?) summer service which I used several times during the early noughties.

[Dibatag]

2 minutes ago, Dibatag said:

That would mostly probably be the Bristol to Weymouth ( saturdays only?) summer service which I used several times during the early noughties.

 

[Tim Hall]

11 minutes ago, Dibatag said:

That would mostly probably be the Bristol to Weymouth ( saturdays only?) summer service which I used several times during the early noughties.

Ah, that would make sense, as I went to Weymouth a couple of times with 31s in the early 2000s....I'd forgotten that.

[SP Steve]

On 12/09/2020 at 21:54, Gwiwer said:

For a number of years the Brighton service ran via Portsmouth (though I cannot recall whether they ran up to the Harbour) at a considerable time penalty but taking advantage of the then multiple-unit formation with no need to run round.  

 

I have a number of the destination labels to Brighton and I can't recall them displaying a Harbour stop - the one below was for Class 159s in the days of services from the West Country.

 

 

 

 

Here's one more appropriate to the route in question featuring some of the smaller stops - it's identified on the rear as being for the 20:25 ex CDF and would date from c1988 (no prizes for spotting that Mottisfont Dunbridge has been listed as Mottisfont then Dunbridge stops!).

 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by SP Steve

[stovepipe]

Re the 37s on Portsmouth - Cardiff, in the early 80s a 37 often worked 1V32 16:10 ex Portsmouth, from Bristol at 19:05 M-F, sometimes twice a week, otherwise it was a 31 or very occasionally a 47 or a 33. 

 

In theory the loco came back on 2B76 21:40 ex Cardiff - Bristol, but not many were around midweek to record the details.

Edited October 21, 2020 by stovepipe

[Gwiwer]

3 hours ago, SP Steve said:

Mottisfont Dunbridge has been listed as Mottisfont then Dunbridge stops

A swift reversal at Kimbridge Junction and a slightly bumpy ride up and down the former track bed to Mottisfont's real station could achieve that   

[Gwiwer]

3 hours ago, SP Steve said:

destination labels to Brighton

An interesting calling pattern.  Almost every station to Yeovil then fast to Salisbury.  Those trains might have reversed in P&S Low Level.  I had in mind that they served the Harbour as a part of the more regular service between there and Bristol / Cardiff.  They also used to run fast Worthing - Brighton but had Shoreham and Hove stops added largely for pathing (because they are of necessity pathed close behind an all-stations train) quite some time ago.  

[MJI]

I will have to look up a few sets from early 80s

[Darius43]

I used to catch the Sunday Brighton to Bristol train in the mid 1980s returning to Bristol and University after visiting my Grandparents in Seaford for the weekend.  It was Class 33 hauled with about six Mk1 coaches and was a great journey - much better than the alternative route via Victoria and Paddington*.

 

On one of these journeys, somewhere between Salisbury and Westbury, squadron of USAF A-10s undertook what appeared to be mock attacks on the train - very entertaining.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

* Although I did enjoy taking advantage of the yellow sticker £1 “Bargain First” seats on the Sunday evening HSTs from Paddington To Bristol.

Edited October 23, 2020 by Darius43

[pc3163]

What headcodes would be used on Class 33 pulling 4-TC to Portsmouth & also pushing 4-TC to Portsmouth and likewise pulling/pushing to Cardiff?

[brushman47544]

1 minute ago, pc3163 said:

What headcodes would be used on Class 33 pulling 4-TC to Portsmouth & also pushing 4-TC to Portsmouth and likewise pulling/pushing to Cardiff?

Portsmouth - Bristol - Cardiff trains were headcode 89. The type of (SR) rolling stock being used wouldn’t affect that.

[pc3163]

Thanks Andrew. Was it 79 in the opposite direction?

[Gwiwer]

6 minutes ago, brushman47544 said:

Portsmouth - Bristol - Cardiff trains were headcode 89. The type of (SR) rolling stock being used wouldn’t affect that.

89 was used between Portsmouth Harbour and Bristol Temple Meads. Its use after reversal / loco-change there depended very much upon who was driving. 
 

SR crews signed the road to Bristol but not beyond. Bristol-based WR crews were type-trained on SR stock and all those who needed to know were trained that the headcode was a front-of-train marker and double red blanks the rear. Both were accepted in lieu of lamps.  The headcode therefore had to be displayed. 
 

Cardiff-based crews were not necessarily familiar with SR operating practice but did sign the traction. IIRC a red tail lamp had to be fitted over that section. The headcode was often set to double white blank though 89 and sometimes 33 (for the locomotive class) were seen. Bristol-based crews working those trains to Cardiff probably adopted the practice used by their Cardiff colleagues.   
 

99 incidentally was used for Brighton - Bristol / Cardiff trains. 
 

 

[Gwiwer]

1 minute ago, pc3163 said:

Thanks Andrew. Was it 79 in the opposite direction?

79 would have been used for Portsmouth & Southsea - Bristol / Cardiff which would have been unusual. All workings normally ran up to and from Harbour.
 

SR headcodes generally applied in both directions over a route.  Exceptions existed where a train reversed en route and confusion might have been caused, or for circular services. 
 

Thus Brighton - Hastings was 16 but Hastings - Brighton was 18 as both trains served Hampden Park in both directions. Waterloo - Richmond - Kingston - Waterloo trains were 21 but 32 the other way around. 

[2E Sub Shed]

42 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

SR crews signed the road to Bristol but not beyond. Bristol-based WR crews were type-trained on SR stock and all those who needed to know were trained that the headcode was a front-of-train marker and double red blanks the rear. Both were accepted in lieu of lamps.  The headcode therefore had to be displayed.

 

 

Just to add

 

The Ian Allen book, "Rail Portfolio, The Cromptons" shows on page 49 a Class 33 captioned as "on the 09:15 Bristol-Taunton local at Bridgwater on 29/03/85" displaying "89", further states this was a diagrammed working

[Gwiwer]

31 minutes ago, 2E Sub Shed said:

 

Just to add

 

The Ian Allen book, "Rail Portfolio, The Cromptons" shows on page 49 a Class 33 captioned as "on the 09:15 Bristol-Taunton local at Bridgwater on 29/03/85" displaying "89", further states this was a diagrammed working

Class 33 had booked workings on Taunton stoppers. It is quite likely that the diagram was Portsmouth - Bristol - Taunton and that the 89 was simply left up because WR staff knew no different. It was never an official Bristol - Taunton headcode. 
 

Likewise when class 33 had Exeter - Barnstaple duties these sometimes showed 62 having used the locos off the Waterloo - Exeter service. It has also been suggested that some drivers used 62 to Barnstaple as a statement that this used to be SR territory with through trains from Waterloo.   As with 89 to Taunton 62 to Barnstaple was never an official SR headcode. 

[The Stationmaster]

4 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

89 was used between Portsmouth Harbour and Bristol Temple Meads. Its use after reversal / loco-change there depended very much upon who was driving. 
 

SR crews signed the road to Bristol but not beyond. Bristol-based WR crews were type-trained on SR stock and all those who needed to know were trained that the headcode was a front-of-train marker and double red blanks the rear. Both were accepted in lieu of lamps.  The headcode therefore had to be displayed. 
 

 

There was no mention in the WR Instruction for the route indicator on SR units to be either displayed or not displayed,  The only Instruction in respect of the route indicator was as that it was to be illuminated at those times at which headvodes were required to be illuminated.  If the route indicator could not be illuminated at a time it was required to be illuminated a lamp was to be used instead..  

 

The situation in respect of the red panels at the rear of the SR DEMUs was quite complicated and also varied between different batches of units - basically as long as two red panels were displayed and could be illuminated at the time they were required to be illuminated then all was well.  Beyond that different levels of degradation in what could be displayed/illumainted were allowed but if red panels could not be displayed, or be illuminated when they were required to be u illuminated, a tail lamp had to be provided.

[Rivercider]

4 hours ago, 2E Sub Shed said:

 

Just to add

 

The Ian Allen book, "Rail Portfolio, The Cromptons" shows on page 49 a Class 33 captioned as "on the 09:15 Bristol-Taunton local at Bridgwater on 29/03/85" displaying "89", further states this was a diagrammed working

There were some booked through workings, in 1983 this included the 15.10 Portsmouth Harbour to Weston-super-Mare.

 

33001 approaches Warminster on the 15.10 Pomo - W-s-M 9/6/83.

 

4TC 418 and 33112 approach Westbury on a service for Portsmouth Harbour. 20/8/83

 

cheers