"Big Four" Light Railways

[Nearholmer]

An interesting thread about conversion of a layout to become a representation of an LNER Light Railway, set in the 1930s, has started my cogs whirring .......

 

Model light railways seem mainly to represent tentacles of Lt Col Stephens' empire, and very seldom (bits of Suffolk possibly excepted) lines that were inherited (or even built) by The Big Four (which should be The Big Five really, given the traffic carried by London Transport). Uckfield MRC has a very good model of Leysdown, and there are a few others, but they are few.

 

So, can I start the ball rolling by suggesting a few worthy contenders:

 

- The North Lindsey Light Railway (LNER), which seems so obscure that I can only find one photo of its terminus at Whitton, which doesn't show a train, and it doesn't appear on any map in the NLS on-line collection that I can find.  

- The North Devon & Cornwall Junction (built by the SR); has there ever been a layout? (I may have asked that before).

- The Wrington Vale LR (GWR), because modern Hornby have made ten zillion copies of the loco designed for it (Blagdon has been modelled, I'm pretty sure).

- The Leek & Manifold Valley, because my ignorance of standard gauge LR's operated by the LMS knows no bounds. Was there a LRO coveing the Prestatyn & Dyserth passenger operations? Did the Garstang & Knott End* get grouped?

- The Brill Tramway, which I don't think was technically a LR, but was in the same spirit, and was operated by LT.

 

What would your nominations be (especially if you know about the LMS and/or Scotland)? Are there any good "grouping" LR layouts out there?

 

As usual, I've broken the "no questions" rule in this section, because I don't know how to initiate a discussion without asking questions, except by making a bold, and provocative, statement. Here we go:

 

There were no interesting light railways operated by any of the Big Four.

 

Kevin 

 

*Which wasn't built under an LRO, but the draft bill for the extenssion, published in 1907 says: "To provide that the said railways may be constructed and worked as light railways, and to apply the provisions or such of the provisions of the Regulation of Railways Act, 1868, or the Light Railways Act, 1896, so far as may be necessary as to the crossing of roads on the level limiting the speed of engines and otherwise in such manner as the Bill may prescribe.".

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Nearholmer

[brianusa]

Does the P D & S W J Ry count?

     Brian.

[009 micro modeller]

A little bit different but this was technically a light railway, and operated by the LMS (previously the Midland): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burton_and_Ashby_Light_Railway

[Nearholmer]

29 minutes ago, brianusa said:

Does the P D & S W J Ry count?

 

It does, because it became part of the LSWR, then the SR,  and it sort of crosses the boundary, because Colonel Stephens was the consulting engineer for the extension to Callington, which was the LR bit, and he even managed it (from afar) for a couple of years, but it was never part of The Empire Proper.

[phil_sutters]

The GWR did buy the assets of the Weston, Clevedon & Portishead Railway with the intention of using it to store surplus coal wagons during WW2, but very little use was made of it. All traffic had ceased in 1940 after decades of operating in Receivership.

[pH]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

What would your nominations be (especially if you know about the LMS and/or Scotland)? 

 

An existing topic on light railways in Scotland:
 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/100647-light-railways-in-scotland/

 

[Steamport Southport]

Prestatyn and Dyserth was a proper railway. Just that it was an early victim of buses and lost it's passenger service in 1930.

 

 

Last passenger train was composed of DMUs for a railtour in the late 1960s. I think it was then the Flint and Deeside Railway Preservation Society was proposed to save it. But Llangollen was a better option.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Bomag]

The LMS had some very interesting light railways - Ballamena to Larne and Red Bay, Ballycastle railway and half of the CDJR with the GN.

[Harlequin]

A very well-known light railway in GWR territory was the Culm Valley Light Railway.

The terminus station, Hemyock, with its eccentric plan, compact proportions and picturesque location, has been modelled several times and has inspired many fictional layouts.

 

[Harlequin]

In Wales (working around the compass gradually Northwards) another light railway eventually absorbed by the GWR: was the Lampeter, Aberayron and New Quay Light Railway.

 

Opened with optimistic celebrations in 1911, it never reached Newquay and never made a profit. The line lasted until 1973, by which time it had been truncated and was working only milk traffic.

Here’s one layout on RMWeb: 

 

[Nearholmer]

4 hours ago, Bomag said:

The LMS had some very interesting light railways - Ballamena to Larne and Red Bay, Ballycastle railway and half of the CDJR with the GN.

The legislation in Ireland was different from in Britain, but were they light railways in a legal sense?

 

Here is the LR (Ireland) Act 1889 http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1889/act/66/enacted/en/print.html

Edited August 3, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Nearholmer]

4 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Prestatyn and Dyserth was a proper railway.

So it was a light railway then?

 

Seriously though: under what legal arrangement was the passenger service commenced? Whatever it was, having seen photos of the ‘platform’ in the six-foot, I’m amazed that the Prestatyn end got BoT approval.

 

The extension was definitely intended as a LR.

 

 

[TomJ]

I believe the Lambourne Valley Railway was built under the light railway act. Like many it was built by an independent company - but in this case had its own rolling stock and locos. Later taken over by the GWR who rebuilt Lambourne station and introduced their stock 

[Zomboid]

There's the Basingstoke and Alton, built by the LSWR, and reluctantly operated by the Southern for a while.

 

Aside from being in a couple of films, I think it was one of the very first railways to be authorised by an LRO.

[Nearholmer]

50 minutes ago, TomJ said:

Lambourne Valley Railway was built under the light railway act

Frayed knot.

 

It was a legislatively conventional railway that went around dressed-up as a LR.

[eastglosmog]

The Totton, Hythe and Fawley, built by the SR opened 1925.

[Harlequin]

Since the legal status of some of these railways has been questioned and the level of interest may be in doubt:

 

I hereby state for the record that the Culm Valley Light Railway and the Lampeter, Aberayron and New Quay Light Railway were Interesting Light Railways Operated by the Big Four, henceforth known as ILR4s.

 

[JohnR]

Basingstoke and Alton Light Railway, of course. 

[009 micro modeller]

What was the status of Elsenham & Thaxted? I know it was always operated by the GER with their own stock and the LNER took over the line at the grouping, but was the company technically independent initially? I think  there were a few lines like this with similar situations, where not enough capital was raised so the service ended up being operated by the local main line railway, who also eventually ended up taking over the line itself.

[Nearholmer]

35 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Since the legal status of some of these railways has been questioned

It is perennially difficult to pin down what was/wasn’t a LR, because those built or operated under the 1868 Act are very difficult to spot, and the 1896 Act could be used either as the vehicle to authorise a new line, or simply the route to allow a change of operating practices on an existing one, sometimes without the need for an LRO.

 

Then there was The different law in Ireland.

 

Then there is common usage of the term.

 

Case in point: was the Axholme Railway, specifically the Fockerby branch (‘cos I like it) authorised or operated as a LR? I’ve read summary histories and concluded that the authors don’t know themselves!

[Nearholmer]

20 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

think  there were a few lines like this with similar situations, where not enough capital was raised so the service ended up being operated by the local main line railway, who also eventually ended up taking over the line itself.

Many, many, many, and by no means all of them LRs. The GWR was particularly good at encouraging local businessmen to waste their money building branch lines that could never service their capital costs, then buying them out at tuppence in the pound when the locals couldn’t afford a new engine/track/staff wages.

 

Once ‘de-capitalised’ in this way, and with overheads pooled into a bigger company, such lines were a paying proposition, because they only had to cover operating, maintenance, and (eventually) renewal costs.

 

“Big company capitalised and built” branch lines were possibly the exception, rather than the rule, in Victorian times.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Nearholmer

[31A]

19 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

What was the status of Elsenham & Thaxted? I know it was always operated by the GER with their own stock and the LNER took over the line at the grouping, but was the company technically independent initially? I think  there were a few lines like this with similar situations, where not enough capital was raised so the service ended up being operated by the local main line railway, who also eventually ended up taking over the line itself.

 

Yes, Elsenham and Thaxted was built as a Light Railway, as was Kelvedon and Tollesbury which also passed to the LNER.  Elsewhere in East Anglia the LNER had the Wisbech and Upwell Tramway which was a light railway in effect (although it pre-dated the Light Railways Act), and another LNER one that springs to mind was Fraserburgh & St. Combs (referred to in the other topic linked above).

 

[Nearholmer]

The W&U brings up the other legislative complexity: passenger-carrying street tramways (urban, rural, and Irish). They assuredly were not railways, let alone LRs, the distinction being that they operated “on line of sight”, rather than by block-working.

 

Then there were those passenger-carrying tramways that require no legislative authority to build, usually because they were on land that didn’t need to be purchased compulsorily, the Brill Tramway, and the Rye and Camber being instances, but which were subject to some BoT oversight (in both senses!) in respect of safety.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Welchester]

11 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

The Leek & Manifold Valley, because my ignorance of standard gauge LR's operated by the LMS knows no bounds.

The L&MVLR was 2’ 6”, not standard gauge.

[Harlequin]

25 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

The W&U brings up the other legislative complexity: passenger-carrying street tramways (urban, rural, and Irish). They assuredly were not railways, let alone LRs, the distinction being that they operated “on line of sight”, rather than by block-working.

 

Then there were those passenger-carrying tramways that require no legislative authority to build, usually because they were on land that didn’t need to be purchased compulsorily, the Brill Tramway, and the Rye and Camber being instances, but which were subject to some BoT oversight (in both senses!) in respect of safety.

Ooh, You've opened a right can of worms!

 

I feel this topic is going to run and run so maybe worth adding some codicils to the opening post?