Bachmann announce NEW Class 47

[Henners84]

3 minutes ago, G-BOAF said:

It is very clear that the Bachmann 47 is a response to Accurascale, especially re engine room details and lights and depthnof varients possible. Possibly 47 started when the accurascale 37 wss announced and Bachmann felt the need to maintain their stake in the 47. Im just surprised if Bachmann have this ability to respoind it wasnt done sooner. Ever since the Hornby 60 and 08/09 and until Bachmann's 90 (and BP in terms of dmu) Bachmann's d&e offerings have been lagging behind a little in terms of detail and pushing the boundaries on detail and technology.

Good point. This now stops accurascale targeting the class 47 market. Would be a disaster for Bachmann if they did not have either a class leading 37 or 47

[Henners84]

35 minutes ago, The 158 Man said:

Well they don't seem to mind competing with Hornby or Heljan. 

Despite accurascale being smaller than Hornby or Heljan, I personally think it is easier competition. I don't see any apparent weaknesses in accurascale's class 37 offering and therefore Bachmann would need to compete on price and not quality. Everything is expensive nowadays but I feel accurascale's pricing is more competitive than Bachmann's. Hence I think Bachmann would struggle. Hornby and heljans products (even though generally good) do have shortcomings. There is therefore an opportunity for Bachmann to compete with a better quality product and therefore charge a premium price

[TomScrut]

33 minutes ago, Mophead45143 said:

 

Remember these models have been in development for quite a long time. I would think that given how well advanced Bachmann's 47 is, it was probably on the drawing board well before Heljan announced their own. 

 

Cameron

 

Given Bachmann development times tend to be fairly prolonged, combined with the fact they are ahead of Heljan on progress, I expect this was started before the Heljan one was public knowledge.

[TomScrut]

16 minutes ago, G-BOAF said:

It is very clear that the Bachmann 47 is a response to Accurascale

 

Is it though? They could have been working on it for 3 or 4 years for all we know.

[158722]

I have admit to be being some bemused and amused by some of the comments here - much of it actually quite depressing to read.

 

Bachmann and Heljan have been competing in the 47 market for years, each of us has made our choice of which to choose or mix them. I have never been convinced by the Bachmann offering and never had one. With some mods and improvments such as new cab front window frames and roof fans/grills, etc, I have a satisfactory fleet of Heljan 47s.

 

As for the new generation of models from each manufacturer, I think both are a step up from their respective first generations and it is good to see another model having an upgrade and raising the bar. Both models have their issues, in my view, but as we're discussing the Bachmann one here, the body seems to sit too high on the bogies (as their 40 and Peaks do too), the snowploughs are naff if fitted to the bogies and the Nº2 end marker lights look too large. The main cab front hand rail doesn't appear to be curved and as has been mentioned, the rotating fan is not correct unless the Serck radiator slats are open. There also seem to be some heavyish moulding lines around the cab corners and on the cab roof corners. It does look good overall, just as the Heljan EPs we have seen. That said, I suspect I'll be sticking with my brand choice of recent years.

[TomScrut]

57 minutes ago, The 158 Man said:

Although I will say this. I bought the Realtrack Class 156 in Super Sprinter livery and the Bachmann Class 158 in Regional Railways livery when they were released.

 

57 minutes ago, The 158 Man said:

The Bachmann unit however was, in my eyes, perfect straight out of the box and worth every penny.

 

Yep, I just wish they'd do a Northern 158 (as Realtrack are doing with the 156)

 

57 minutes ago, The 158 Man said:

And this is how I already feel about the 47. Even in the pictures it looks to me like the be-all-and-end-all 47 and unless the Heljan one is pretty much identical I've already chosen Bachmann as the winner. 

 

I agree, I am maybe wrong to do so without seeing one in the flesh but just looking at the EPs, and the prices, the Bachmann looks the winner to me. Which one I buy will still depend to an extent on what Bachmann does with releases though. Heljan (via Gaugemaster) have announced at least one still on the network as per the model, Bachmann have not but I expect they will, it just depends how long (I am always in hope for appropriate 158s and 90s but they don't seem to come)

 

57 minutes ago, The 158 Man said:

With their latest high spec toolings such as the 90

 

Whilst I wasn't one of them, quite a lot of people had issues with their 90s.

Edited August 5, 2021 by TomScrut

[MikeParkin65]

1 minute ago, Henners84 said:

Despite accurascale being smaller than Hornby or Heljan, I personally think it is easier competition. I don't see any apparent weaknesses in accurascale's class 37 offering and therefore Bachmann would need to compete on price and not quality. Everything is expensive nowadays but I feel accurascale's pricing is more competitive than Bachmann's. Hence I think Bachmann would struggle. Hornby and heljans products (even though generally good) do have shortcomings. There is therefore an opportunity for Bachmann to compete with a better quality product and therefore charge a premium price

We all have a lot good will towards Accurascale and I am looking forward to my Deltic and Class 37 which seem to be bargain priced at the moment. However Bachmann have been serving the modeller well for 3 decades now whilst Accurascale have yet to release a OO UK locomotive. I sincerely hope Accurascale can maintain their competitive pricing but Bachmann know this market well and I think if we want models aspiring to the standards set by SLW,  prices are going to have to be at least what Bachmann have set for the 47.

[gridwatcher]

Am I the only one who would like the 'purple' tints on my BR Blue 47 but couldn't give a monkeys about working fans? I am only hoping they haven't specced the purple tints on every Sound Fitted Deluxe Duff they are bringing out, because that would not be correct?

[atom3624]

Going to the earlier comment of rejigging the 37, I don't think that Bachmann would have a market for them, if the Class 47 pricing is applied as well.

 

I doubt they'd bring anything to the table A/S haven't already covered, and at a more approachable price as well.

 

I too was surprised when I found out one of my 3 37's had opening doors - love it.

They don't stick like many Hornby ones do either.

 

Al.

[Class 158 productions]

Whilst the fans may not be to some people's taste, I agree they seem a bit pointless. However I’m sure many will be happy with them. It’s nice to see some innovations and new features not seen before, hopefully they don’t turn out to be gimmicks. I also hope that we see an improvement in the bogie design, I’ve noticed on a few of my Bachmann ones the bogies seem to ‘Bob’ back and forwards on the rails. I’ve found that the loose central axle on the Heljan models doesn’t have this issue. Hopefully the central axle on these new ones have some give. The snowploughs seem disappointing but one can easily get some decent third party ones, so not really an issue. It will be interesting to see the effect this new one has on prices. Will older Bachmann models suddenly be flung on internet auction sites? 

[Ron Ron Ron]

The only issue with the working fans, is that they switch on and off and rotate too fast.

They need to operate at a slower speed and not start and stop abruptly.

While the idea is a welcome move, the video shows in this application to be far too toy like.

 

DCC uncoupling and fan driven diesel exhaust next…..

 

 

.

[gridwatcher]

22 minutes ago, The 158 Man said:

It's lovely to have a 'normal' Intercity Swallow 47 at last too. The previous two, whilst very nice, were clearly turned out for Royal duties and the colours weren't quite right either. So it's brilliant to have an everyday workhorse version for the front of IC XC MK2 trains.

Agree on that. Too often the tendency in the market is to go for 'Livery Tarts' & Ice Cream Vans! Makes them much harder to renumber to your choice too. I am all for bog standard un-named locos from manufacturers. That said I am sure they'll spin back and tell us that the namers, funny liveries sell better.....

[Henners84]

3 minutes ago, The 158 Man said:

Agreed all the way! I often wonder if the 'celebrity' loco's appeal to a more varied audience as well..

I need to admit to being part of that audience. Not necessarily looking for a 'celebrity' loco, but I like the varied colour schemes available in the early sectorisation period. That's why I'd like a parcels 47 because they were seen pulling parcels trains but also passenger services at times. Whilst I like large logo and intercity liveries I wouldnt want that scheme only on my locos for reasons of wanting variety even though you're less likely to see variety in the real world. It's for the same reason that I am attracted to Hornbys new class 87 in large loco grey (not blue) as its just a bit different and therefore interesting to me

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

11 minutes ago, gridwatcher said:

Agree on that. Too often the tendency in the market is to go for 'Livery Tarts' & Ice Cream Vans! Makes them much harder to renumber to your choice too. I am all for bog standard un-named locos from manufacturers. That said I am sure they'll spin back and tell us that the namers, funny liveries sell better.....

amen to that. It's a normal working day every day on my layout, the carnival doesn't come to town as often as some people think. Hornby are the worst for this, at least Bachmann have realised the folly of faux celebrity...

 

[Henners84]

5 minutes ago, The 158 Man said:

I too like a handful of 'different' loco's like yourself but I know people who specifically collect the 'oddments'. Nothing wrong with that of course. 

I'd really like an apple grey parcels loco but I agree it would be weird if I had just items such as this with no br blue at all! Likewise I don't want to collect items such as these as "collectors pieces", I'd just like to run them for variety

[younGGuns7]

11 hours ago, Neil Phillips said:

 

Yes, quite a lot of them, from 1970 onwards. Almost all were in standard blue - the version with single central arrow and bodyside numbers beside the cab doors, a very common livery spanning 5 years which AFAIK no manufacturer has ever produced, in any scale! - but there were the inevitable exceptions. The last two built D1960/1 outshopped in blue with cabside arrows and bodyside numbers were ETH-equipped from new (D1960 was renumbered 47514 like this); the WR's first two ETH conversions in late 1971 - D1932 blue with cabside numbers and bodyside arrows & D1936 in two-tone green - were later renumbered 47493 & 47494 respectively still in these liveries. D1103/5/6/8/9/10 also received ETH while still in green and remained so when renumbered 47520/2/3/5/6/7. D1103 was still running around with D prefixes in 1973!

Definitely some good material there and hopefully Bachmann will pick up on these liveries - I will start saving now just in case

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

7 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

I'm glad that they stopped putting driver figures...They looked so toy-like and plasticky. And they looked absolutely comical going backwards with a driver in the wrong cab

What would be so wrong with giving us a driver only (later liveries) and a two-man crew (pre 1990) using decent figures in one-end only? I hate having to dismantle a brand new and very expensive loco to install a 1:76 card-carrying ASLEF brother in to avoid having a driverless leading cab. I've been moving towards a "driven" end (with crew, pipes and no couplings) and a non driven end and just using the hand of god to swing the loco around if I want to go the other way with it...

[Henners84]

In case not yet been raised in this chat, and/or some not aware, the following gives what is supposedly a full list of class 47 liveries (including typical and 'carnival' colour schemes)... 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/newsdetail.aspx?id=503 

[Henners84]

11 minutes ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

What would be so wrong with giving us a driver only (later liveries) and a two-man crew (pre 1990) using decent figures in one-end only? I hate having to dismantle a brand new and very expensive loco to install a 1:76 card-carrying ASLEF brother in to avoid having a driverless leading cab. I've been moving towards a "driven" end (with crew, pipes and no couplings) and a non driven end and just using the hand of god to swing the loco around if I want to go the other way with it...

Seeing as some like the figures and some do not, I think Bachmann's approach to not fit is the 'correct' one. I personally like the figures as I rarely need to alter the direction of my locos but feel the older Bachmann pre fitted figure offering leaves something to be desired in terms of quality. For me, aftermarket figures painted myself is the way forward. I think it is reasonable to expect a half serious modeller will be opening their locos to maybe tweak a few things. The beginner modeller may not want to be doing such but possibly they will not mind so much not having figures? Alternatively certain distributors can do this for a small charge

[billy_anorak59]

12 minutes ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

What would be so wrong with giving us a driver only (later liveries) and a two-man crew (pre 1990) using decent figures in one-end only? I hate having to dismantle a brand new and very expensive loco to install a 1:76 card-carrying ASLEF brother in to avoid having a driverless leading cab. I've been moving towards a "driven" end (with crew, pipes and no couplings) and a non driven end and just using the hand of god to swing the loco around if I want to go the other way with it...

 

I would have thought it would be pretty easy to have a flipping or rotating section of bulkhead (driver one side, empty the other)? A la Scott (Rotating) or Virgil (Flipping) in the launch sequences of Thunderbirds?

[66738]

I definitely welcome a bog standard work a day example. Bachmann are not the only ones guilty over the years of being obsessed with a celebrity loco or oddity liveries. 47301 and 47050 spring to mind. I just want a normal Railfreight 47. 
66738
 

[woodenhead]

17 minutes ago, billy_anorak59 said:

 

I would have thought it would be pretty easy to have a flipping or rotating section of bulkhead (driver one side, empty the other)? A la Scott (Rotating) or Virgil (Flipping) in the launch sequences of Thunderbirds?

Bachmann will have to introduce a Supermarionation Deluxe  version for this feature 

[G-BOAF]

2 hours ago, 158722 said:

As for the new generation of models from each manufacturer, I think both are a step up from their respective first generations and it is good to see another model having an upgrade and raising the bar. Both models have their issues, in my view, but as we're discussing the Bachmann one here, the body seems to sit too high on the bogies (as their 40 and Peaks do too), the snowploughs are naff if fitted to the bogies and the Nº2 end marker lights look too large. The main cab front hand rail doesn't appear to be curved and as has been mentioned, the rotating fan is not correct unless the Serck radiator slats are open. There also seem to be some heavyish moulding lines around the cab corners and on the cab roof corners. It does look good overall, just as the Heljan EPs we have seen. That said, I suspect I'll be sticking with my brand choice of recent years.

 

I hadn't noticed the cab roof moulding lines until you pointed them out.

I do find it an odd choice of tooling setup. On the previous generation there were lines between the roof vent and the cantrail, short and easy to hide. What Bachmann have done is put the join on a complex curve and any slight mismatch in the shape of the tooling, or a mould line, will catch the light.

Now pointed out it seems a silly choice....

Lets hope the production models had more attention to tidying up mould joins than the livery samples (?) shown...

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, The 158 Man said:

I often wonder if the 'celebrity' loco's appeal to a more varied audience as well.

 

I like the celebs (present day at least) simply because of the colours and art on them. I think about 60% of my freight loco fleet is GBRF as a result of this (and them having my favorite standard livery too)

[Dunsignalling]

41 minutes ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

What would be so wrong with giving us a driver only (later liveries) and a two-man crew (pre 1990) using decent figures in one-end only? I hate having to dismantle a brand new and very expensive loco to install a 1:76 card-carrying ASLEF brother in to avoid having a driverless leading cab. I've been moving towards a "driven" end (with crew, pipes and no couplings) and a non driven end and just using the hand of god to swing the loco around if I want to go the other way with it...

That probably is the least-worst option.

 

None of the solutions are ideal, (though I think the hologram crew idea would be brilliant if it could be done).

 

Having to follow the same routine with every loco, even if it isn't prototypical, is at least efficient and keeps any frustration consistent.

 

Going a bit off-topic (though not too far from the spirit of the above) for a moment, though, why the heck did Hornby not fit a rear coupling to their Devon Belle observation car when it seems obvious that loads of owners will want to shunt it off for turning as happened to the real thing.....

 

John