Bachmann announce NEW Class 47

[JohnR]

1 hour ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

DCC uncoupling and fan driven diesel exhaust next…..

 

 

.

 

I'm surprised DCC uncoupling hasnt happened before now. 

 

[Dunsignalling]

Just now, JohnR said:

 

I'm surprised DCC uncoupling hasnt happened before now. 

 

It is available for aftermarket fitting, Keen systems do one for tension locks and there's a Swiss (I think) firm that makes a conversion for Kadees.

 

John

[97406]

Delivery window looking like November - December so I think I can treat myself to the sound fitted blue’un for my 53rd birthday and Christmas combined, and I have started saving. 

 

An important question - Will the DCC sound fitted one have problems with a high frequency track cleaner on my DC setup? Will it go ‘bang’? I don’t want to ruin a new and expensive loco.

[andyman7]

2 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

I'm surprised DCC uncoupling hasnt happened before now. 

 

It has been offered on the continent

 

http://www.krois-modell.at/produkt/digikupp/

[Dunsignalling]

1 minute ago, 97406 said:

Delivery window looking like November - December so I think I can treat myself to the sound fitted blue’un for my 53rd birthday and Christmas combined, and I have started saving. 

 

An important question - Will the DCC sound fitted one have problems with a high frequency track cleaner on my DC setup? Will it go ‘bang’? I don’t want to ruin a new and expensive loco.

In a word, yes., though perhaps with more of a fizz than a bang....  

 

John

[97406]

Just now, Dunsignalling said:

In a word, yes., though perhaps with more of a fizz than a bang....  

 

John

If that’s the case the I can save a few quid and go for the cheaper one. There’s no real need for me to go full DCC at this stage.

[JohnR]

4 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

It is available for aftermarket fitting, Keen systems do one for tension locks and there's a Swiss (I think) firm that makes a conversion for Kadees.

 

John

 

2 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

It has been offered on the continent

 

http://www.krois-modell.at/produkt/digikupp/

 

 

I was more thinking of being offered on a British RTR loco by the manufacturer. 

 

[frobisher]

3 minutes ago, JohnR said:

I was more thinking of being offered on a British RTR loco by the manufacturer. 

 

Obviously no point putting NEM sockets on such a locomotive...  

[The Black Hat]

Reading the remarks as they come in - I can't help but think we are now reaching the extreme of another end of a spectrum. 

High detail and spec are models that we all have wanted and lobbied for. The forthcoming Accurascale 55 and 37 follows the Hattons 66 and Dapol 68 being the trend setters for the next generation of digital high spec models. However, price is an issue as is spec.

The reaching of such details and fittings starts pushing demands for more and more specific details to get that perfect model. People are already mentioning the tint in windows, the brightness of lights, speed of fan operation and the shape of particular features that some might want to see included to get a specific class 47 modelled at a specific time in its working life. Yet, we need to remember that models are a compromise and while Bachmann thanks to tooling options and tech can include a great many changes there will be some areas that will just be similar to others. Still, the result will be that with so much high spec and research done that people will be wanting their choice of engine, to be done at the right time and period to be modelled exactly. Deviating from this will result some acceptance by some but in others it will be disappointment, thinking their model can be done correctly and for others to be the compromise.  

As Bachmann push the boundaries of detail, spec and price there is then the issue of value for money. With Accurascale and Hattons able to do an all singing and dancing model for the roughly the same price of a standard Bachmann 47 you question how much better the 47 needs to be when the spec of them all is similar. When operating do you really need inside engine-room lights, do you need the rotating fans? Given the wealth of DCC sound functions how many of these are ever used by most operators? Lights and their modes changing, on the front of the model for driving can be important given how you can see the results and then for sound for the ones that your really going to be using - but just how far do we take realism and in that quest for it, how much value do you get from the expense that you need to pay to get a model that does all this? 

Each of us will find an answer and an opinion of this as the class 47 arrives. I think its clever of Bachmann to price it under the £250 mark, but the next batch will be sure to get near that or breach it. That will be another moment where the market changes and the customers are made to become accustomed to the idea of engines costing that much for the basic model. However, given the competition, I think Bachmann could find themselves under cut and people question the value for money that you get from a Bachmann product compared to others. This is not a rehash of the 'models get more expensive' thinking, its a moment where the high spec and price reaches a point where surely many are questioning if its worth it. Given the other options of second hand Bachmann 47s, Heljans to come this new Bachmann 47 has competition from its own predecessor due to the value for money question it faces.

Personally, I think livery choice and prototype choice will be key for these models, so as to entice people to want the one that is available. Otherwise there could be competition and hesitancy which could see these models discounted and thus end up at a price similar to their competition which would thus effect the value for money issue again, but perhaps bring it in line and thus arrive at a parity where the sales happen in the end. 

[Phil Bullock]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

Bachmann will have to introduce a Supermarionation Deluxe  version for this feature 

But how will they get through the cab door? 

[w124bob]

Having looked at the pictures I'm reserving judgement until we see retail examples. Two things struck me straight away, we still have a poor area around the buffer beam cowl and the bottom of the body and poor airpipe mouldings. The airpipes are a simple fix because they're good on the cl 24, for pre and early post TOPS I'm  disappointed in the number choice. Another pair of Spanners pretty much replicating the pending (cheaper) alternative from the Danish. I also regard most lighting as a non essential gimmick and working fans as pointless because the corresponding rad shutters don't open and close, with the exception of the original D1500-19 the fans are hydrostatic so speed up and slow down as the oil works through the fan pumps. I really wish Bachmann well(I was brought up in Barwell) the underframe/bogies are a huge step up so good luck.

[Halvarras]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned elsewhere in this accelerating thread, but I finally got around to looking at the photos of these new models last night and noticed straightaway - thanks to its glowing white wheel rims - that the nearest bogie frame on 47375 hasn't been located properly at its inner end, so it literally has 'dragging brakes'. And checking the rest revealed it's not the only one like it. Hopefully this is just a failure to click the frames into place on these livery samples but it looks like new catalogue photography will be required.......

[woodenhead]

31 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

But how will they get through the cab door? 

Through a lifting panel in the cab roof, accessed via a swinging or tipping wall, a slide and some pistons.

[gridwatcher]

1 hour ago, JohnR said:

 

I'm surprised DCC uncoupling hasnt happened before now. 

 

It has. Several American outline manufacturers have dabbled with solenoid driven self uncouplers. But while that is OK for Knuckle couplers as per US outline (and a few 66 hauled wagons in UK - HTAs etc) those of us who prefer real couplings, hooks and 3 links/Screw links wouldn't thank you for increased costs and unnecessary gubbins where we don't want it.

[MGR Hooper!]

2 hours ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

What would be so wrong with giving us a driver only (later liveries) and a two-man crew (pre 1990) using decent figures in one-end only? I hate having to dismantle a brand new and very expensive loco to install a 1:76 card-carrying ASLEF brother in to avoid having a driverless leading cab. I've been moving towards a "driven" end (with crew, pipes and no couplings) and a non driven end and just using the hand of god to swing the loco around if I want to go the other way with it...

Well that's the problem isn't it? The figures look terribly cheap and plasticky... Not everyone uses their locos with a "driven end" only. Lots of people have TMD layouts and end to end layouts. At some point you have to reverse a loco and and I personally feel they look comical.

PS: You really would require God's help if you want to swing the loco around when you have OHE installed

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

2 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

Well that's the problem isn't it? The figures look terribly cheap and plasticky... Not everyone uses their locos with a "driven end" only. Lots of people have TMD layouts and end to end layouts. At some point you have to reverse a loco and and I personally feel they look comical.

PS: You really would require God's help if you want to swing the loco around when you have OHE installed

If you've got OHE you are just showing off! There really isn't a reason why the figures should look as bad as they have done in years gone by, I accept that at some stage I will have to undo my Bachmann Class 57 in Porterbrook purple and silver to do a crew change and retire my shiny purple blob man. Bachmann themselves do a reasonable set of crew which retail at about £12 for six, so fixing one of them into the seat of a £250 loco shouldn't send it above £252.

 

I suppose it all boils down to one question- does a driver going backwards in the rear of a loco look worse than a vacant cab going forwards?!

 

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by fiftyfour fiftyfour

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

Well that's the problem isn't it? The figures look terribly cheap and plasticky... Not everyone uses their locos with a "driven end" only. Lots of people have TMD layouts and end to end layouts. At some point you have to reverse a loco and and I personally feel they look comical.

PS: You really would require God's help if you want to swing the loco around when you have OHE installed

If you have a terminus with platform canopies or overall roof, the "driven end" MO is relatively easy, and it works with OHLE too. It's called the Half Station Trick.

 

Model a big impressive footbridge across what is actually the end of the scenic part of the layout *, to con the viewer into thinking the station is longer than it is, and extend the tracks a foot through the end.

 

Turn the loco "offstage" using cassettes or a Peco Locolift and send it back out on the adjacent road, thereby conning the viewer that there are release crossovers too..... 

 

John 

 

* If you have an overall roof, you don't even need this

Edited August 5, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[The Stationmaster]

Having seen more than enough locos over my railway career with Drivers in both cabs (or even a number of Drivers in both cabs - I think the record was around 8 or 9) or a Driver at one end and a Secondman/Drivers Asst at the other end  (what do people think the firebells are for?) the simultaneous appearance of somebody sitting in the Driver's seat in both cabs doesn't phase me one bit - in fact it could positively add to realism.

[cravensdmufan]

30 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

 (or even a number of Drivers in both cabs - I think the record was around 8 or 9)

Reminds me of when I worked at Paddington in BR(W) days.  If the minibus to OOC wasn't available they used a light loco, usually a 47 or 50 - I well remember seeing the lads piling in both cabs!

[pauliebanger]

26 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Having seen more than enough locos over my railway career with Drivers in both cabs (or even a number of Drivers in both cabs - I think the record was around 8 or 9) or a Driver at one end and a Secondman/Drivers Asst at the other end  (what do people think the firebells are for?) the simultaneous appearance of somebody sitting in the Driver's seat in both cabs doesn't phase me one bit - in fact it could positively add to realism.

And give an excuse to have the rear cab light separately switched so It can be illuminated when travelling so the rear occupant can read their newspaper, or complete their paperwork. (Driver's end extinguished).

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

[73080]

On 04/08/2021 at 13:53, Dunsignalling said:

Am I right in thinking the anti-glare screens were a 1970s innovation, so not appropriate for examples in as-built two-tone green?

 

John

 

No, distinctly tinted windscreens are definitely visible on separate photos of D1730 and D1732 in ex-works gsyp  (and D1733 in its original experimental blue livery) in 1964.  (See Strathwood's Sixties Diesel & Electric Days Remembered Volume III page 84 for D1730, page 77 for D1732 & page 54 for D1733 without red panels in 1965 and Volume II page 81 for D1733 with red panels in 1964.

 

The apparent windscreen tint can vary from subtle to pronounced, depending on the angle it is viewed and/or on lighting conditions.  Windscreen grime may also make it more pronounce.  Therefore, it is much easier to be certain that a photo shows a tinted windscreen, than to say that a loco does NOT have a tinted windscreen from a photo. 

 

For example, how may of you would say that D1733 in its amended experimental blue livery (i.e. without red side panels) had tinted windows from this photo ?   https://www.flickr.com/photos/rgadsdon/27787240094

 

That said, I have found no certain evidence of tinted windscreens in all the Class 47 colour photos I have seen that were taken before autumn 1963  (D1500, 08, 19, 20, 24 & 31 and D1685). 

 

From photographic evidence, alternative expanations are possible, including:

a)  the 1962 and some or all 1963 built locos did not have tinted windows ex-works; or

b)  the tinting or these locos was more subtle than on later locos, and so is less visible on photos; or

c)  by a quirk of chance, the tinting was not apparent in these photos (in my opinion very unlikely).

 

Viewing photos of gsyp liveried Class 47s taken in 1965-1967, tinted windows can definitely be determined in over 75% of the colour photos.

 

Anyone thinking of buying the tinted windscreen version of D1565 in gsyp perhaps would like to view this later photo of D1565 in gfye livery before deciding: https://www.flickr.com/photos/robmcrorie/16431499903/in/photolist-r2ZJst-26E6r57-21jZh4i-tTkbE5-23bw7hm-2kTYoDG-2kZji4T-2i2tQzr-2bXvyH7-2iCMjN8-2iT8mZD-2iVfFdp-AKBEhd-2gja8De-2hYpNUj-2hYpNTs-2gjJmvm-9p5jeo-SgmLKY-2hWtJPp-282WTxk-26E6r4f-9p5jcW-282WTrD-b5D5LR-2kfoxeT-2dxVe5Q-adPA5d-2e2C3TK-zGvFUD-qUgiyY-chHU8m-aNKbM8-AT448H-e6vm7S-e74vq7-MeaovP-282WTu4-282WTvX-5hboZj-26E6r6Q-28jr5NU-26E6r3o-282WTon-282WTmP-26E6r2w-LawG9r-S6zEKb-26E6r5s-2ktXywS

 

Absence of proof of tinted windscreens is not proof of absence.

[Dunsignalling]

Thanks, my modelling cuts off at the end of 1963, so I'll stick with clear screens.

 

John 

[younGGuns7]

9 minutes ago, 73080 said:

 

No, distinctly tinted windscreens are definitely visible on separate photos of D1730 and D1732 in ex-works gsyp  (and D1733 in its original experimental blue livery) in 1964.  (See Strathwood's Sixties Diesel & Electric Days Remembered Volume III page 84 for D1730, page 77 for D1732 & page 54 for D1733 without red panels in 1965 and Volume II page 81 for D1733 with red panels in 1964.

 

The apparent windscreen tint can vary from subtle to pronounced, depending on the angle it is viewed and/or on lighting conditions.  Windscreen grime may also make it more pronounce.  Therefore, it is much easier to be certain that a photo shows a tinted windscreen, than to say that a loco does NOT have a tinted windscreen from a photo. 

 

For example, how may of you would say that D1733 in its amended experimental blue livery (i.e. without red side panels) had tinted windows from this photo ?   https://www.flickr.com/photos/rgadsdon/27787240094

 

That said, I have found no certain evidence of tinted windscreens in all the Class 47 colour photos I have seen that were taken before autumn 1963  (D1500, 08, 19, 20, 24 & 31 and D1685). 

 

From photographic evidence, alternative expanations are possible, including:

a)  the 1962 and some or all 1963 built locos did not have tinted windows ex-works; or

b)  the tinting or these locos was more subtle than on later locos, and so is less visible on photos; or

c)  by a quirk of chance, the tinting was not apparent in these photos (in my opinion very unlikely).

 

Viewing photos of gsyp liveried Class 47s taken in 1965-1967, tinted windows can definitely be determined in over 75% of the colour photos.

 

Anyone thinking of buying the tinted windscreen version of D1565 in gsyp perhaps would like to view this later photo of D1565 in gfye livery before deciding: https://www.flickr.com/photos/robmcrorie/16431499903/in/photolist-r2ZJst-26E6r57-21jZh4i-tTkbE5-23bw7hm-2kTYoDG-2kZji4T-2i2tQzr-2bXvyH7-2iCMjN8-2iT8mZD-2iVfFdp-AKBEhd-2gja8De-2hYpNUj-2hYpNTs-2gjJmvm-9p5jeo-SgmLKY-2hWtJPp-282WTxk-26E6r4f-9p5jcW-282WTrD-b5D5LR-2kfoxeT-2dxVe5Q-adPA5d-2e2C3TK-zGvFUD-qUgiyY-chHU8m-aNKbM8-AT448H-e6vm7S-e74vq7-MeaovP-282WTu4-282WTvX-5hboZj-26E6r6Q-28jr5NU-26E6r3o-282WTon-282WTmP-26E6r2w-LawG9r-S6zEKb-26E6r5s-2ktXywS

 

Absence of proof of tinted windscreens is not proof of absence.

I have ordered D1565 without the tints two reasons 1 - the evidence it was there at that point 2 - when they release a Blue WR model I will go the full hog 

[Krieghoff]

Does anyone know where there are any Class 47 sound deluxe models left. Rails have all sold out and i cant locate any other suppliers who have them available to pre order. Thanks. 

[The Ghost of IKB]

8 minutes ago, The 158 Man said:

I was in my local today (Monk Bar Models, York) and they said the deluxe sound versions are already in very short supply. I didn't press for more info as it's only the "normal" one on my list but they may be able to help you. 

 

01904 659423.

That seems to answer all  that moaning about "will they sell?, is there the market for this new model? Is it too expensive?"

Well, if its true that its already selling out, then the answers would seem to be 'yes','yes' and 'definately not' in that order.

Maybe Bachmann do actually know their market better than the experts on here.