rob D2 Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Max Legroom said: I’m considering 47012 with a view to renumbering as a ScR 47/0, ideally an Eastfield machine, but I have to admit that my knowledge of 47s is limited. I think the Brush built locos are 47001-16, 96-191 and 212-261 so this has thrown up 47120, 141 and 149 as possibilities. Is there anything else I need to consider, e.g. boiler panels on the roof? Yes. Class47.co.U.K. Will list all the individual details for you 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon1970 Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 5 hours ago, PJ10 said: Morning Gordon1970, Bachmann mentioned in the video of the Autumn announcement that both 47711 and 47435 will be produced next year using the new tooling. Like you I've been waiting for both for some time so its good news they still plan to be produced. I feel that with a significant investment to recoup, Bachmann will most likely be producing class 47 models regularly over the next few years. Fingers crossed for lots more BR Blue and Large Logo. PJ10 It seems the Bachmann Rep did tell the truth back in February As mentioned in posts below, this is a good thing if we wind up with better (Correct) 47711 and the new tooling. We've waited long enough so far and haven't lost anything - let's hope it is next year and not three 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 was anything mentioned about the tooling allowing for easy EM and P4 conversion? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Legroom Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 31 minutes ago, rob D2 said: Yes. Class47.co.U.K. Will list all the individual details for you Thanks Rob. I’ll pay it a visit and do some research. Max Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 (edited) Sams Trains will burst a blood vessel when he hears about the class 47! He has just been moaning about the £179 price of the Class 24, and how sound chips cost pence not pounds, and how can manufacturers justify charging £100 for a sound fitted model..... And still he has an audience of thousands! Sounds like he has never googled the cost of an ESU decoder before! Edited August 8, 2021 by G-BOAF 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, G-BOAF said: Sams Trains will burst a blood vessel when he hears about the class 47! He has just been moaning about the £179 price of the Class 24, and how sound chips cost pence not pounds, and how can manufacturers justify charging £100 for a sound fitted model..... And still he has an audience of thousands! Sounds like he has never googled the cost of an ESU decoder before! To be fair, if my flipping train set was on the carpet, I’d be running Thomas only. Any idiot can get loads of people following them on the internet and believing everything they say - have a look at some “ influencers “. ( is that really a job ??! ) Edited August 8, 2021 by rob D2 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, G-BOAF said: chips cost pence not pounds Even if chips do only cost pence (and that is very much an IF not a statement of fact, I expect the chips will be at least well into the pounds for such as ESU), most of the value in the chips are the design and programming of them anyway. If they were easy to make everyone would be at it. Edited August 8, 2021 by TomScrut 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 I believe the expression "cheap as chips" relates to potato chips, not the sort that needs programming by somebody. Of course there are also some very cheap sound chips - here's one you could use for 4472 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193865834019 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 26 minutes ago, TomScrut said: Even if chips do only cost pence (and that is very much an IF not a statement of fact, I expect the chips will be at least well into the pounds for such as ESU), most of the value in the chips are the design and programming of them anyway. If they were easy to make everyone would be at it. I quite agree. He fails to recognise if something is cheap to manufacture there are design and IP costs that need to be covered, to say nothing of continued investment in development (e.g. V4 to V5, and software updates in between e.g. drivehold). In the same way that he argues a model tooled in the 2000s (e.g. Britannia) should be cheap as the development costs were paid off ages ago, he fails to recognise the cost of research of livery and detail variations for a particular class member, the cost of retooling/tool repairs, and the cost of assembly of models that were designed in a 'cheap labour' context that does not exist today. Anyway this is getting O/T on the 47 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, G-BOAF said: I quite agree. He fails to recognise if something is cheap to manufacture there are design and IP costs that need to be covered, to say nothing of continued investment in development (e.g. V4 to V5, and software updates in between e.g. drivehold). Yes, you can buy sound fitted locos for £100, but it would be a Hornby 66 with TTS after significant discount which is not really comparable to a brand new tooled loco with an ESU decoder and subject to the discount restrictions. I wonder if the £1m investment comes into the equation when he reviews the 47. Whilst I don't like seeing stuff with old tooling priced next to brand new stuff (mostly because it isn't up to the standard of the newer tooled stuff), you're right there will be some cost attributed to what you say, and it also depends on how the tooling is paid for anyway. They might not put the cost of tooling against the runs of the item in question and simply capitalise it over the whole companies profit and loss. Having had a brief look at Bachmann's accounts for last year (curiosity and all that) it looked to me that is how they do it, from what little time I had using what little accounting knowledge I have. Edited August 8, 2021 by TomScrut Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
owentherail Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 2 hours ago, G-BOAF said: Sams Trains will burst a blood vessel when he hears about the class 47! He has just been moaning about the £179 price of the Class 24, and how sound chips cost pence not pounds, and how can manufacturers justify charging £100 for a sound fitted model..... And still he has an audience of thousands! Sounds like he has never googled the cost of an ESU decoder before! Let's hope the blood vessel is not in an important place...... I do like it when reviewers have no idea 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 On 04/08/2021 at 11:07, AY Mod said: It may be disappointing for you but the reverse would be true for others, including me. I'm very happy to see a late 70s Bescot loco. A good point Andy, the 'bog standard' '70s period shouldn't be over looked. For me it'll be a bit earlier in period though than the Bescot based batch, it'll a chance to replicate and improve on the batch of WR namers I did using the fabled Heljan tubby duff several years ago. This fantastic news from Bachmann might just re-ignite my modelling mojo. Now then, where did I put those etched nameplates for North Star, Danny Gooch and IKB....? 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatloaf Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 2 hours ago, G-BOAF said: Sams Trains will burst a blood vessel when he hears about the class 47! He has just been moaning about the £179 price of the Class 24, and how sound chips cost pence not pounds, and how can manufacturers justify charging £100 for a sound fitted model..... And still he has an audience of thousands! Sounds like he has never googled the cost of an ESU decoder before! Except in this case the sound cost him nothing an he still complained. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium younGGuns7 Posted August 8, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 8, 2021 12 minutes ago, Rugd1022 said: A good point Andy, the 'bog standard' '70s period shouldn't be over looked. For me it'll be a bit earlier in period though than the Bescot based batch, it'll a chance to replicate and improve on the batch of WR namers I did using the fabled Heljan tubby duff several years ago. This fantastic news from Bachmann might just re-ignite my modelling mojo. Now then, where did I put those etched nameplates for North Star, Danny Gooch and IKB....? So many to go at there, with a plain blue named WR loco. As mentioned before a Blue ETH WR model would be so welcome too.(Hope my punctuation is acceptable) 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 (edited) I've just finished watching the opening video - the underframe detail and the variations in the tooling are just wonderful to see, well done Bachmann on making such a big investment Who is going to be the first to go to town on weathering their first new 'Four and a half'....? Edited August 8, 2021 by Rugd1022 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
owentherail Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 7 minutes ago, Rugd1022 said: I've just finished watching the opening video - the underframe detail and the variations in the tooling are just wonderful to see, well done Bachmann on making such a big investment Who is going to be the first to go to town on weathering their first new 'Four and a half'....? I model them as I remember them....... at £200+ I remember them in pristine condition 1 2 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishmail Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 If we are going for an all singing and dancing duff, how about having this feature too? (from approx. 4.50m) in the video. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliepetty Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, meatloaf said: Except in this case the sound cost him nothing an he still complained. The world has a choice. You can lay your track on your carpet and buy cheap locos,. I have no issues with that. I remember when I was 10-12 ish, I did the same. So we all start somewhere like this, but you move on, you then bought Mainline & Airfix locos (J72, Peak & 31) again wow they were good, but dearer than Triang-Hornby but thats progress. Look where we are now. If Sam wants to show is metal, then get your track of off the carpet, up your game and be positive by showing your 'trillions' of followers how to improve, build a layout, and get serious. I like his style and presentation but in 2021 buying a Bachmann Class 24 and running it on your carpet. Each to there own. Hornby (Railroad) should sponsor him. Come on Sam. UP YOU GAME. Edited August 9, 2021 by charliepetty 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 31 minutes ago, irishmail said: If we are going for an all singing and dancing duff, how about having this feature too? (from approx. 4.50m) in the video. That's overkill. Driver in front cab, Guard in rear cab. All they need to do is swap hats. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 1 hour ago, charliepetty said: The world has a choice. You can lay your track on your carpet and buy cheap locos,. I have no issues with that. I remember when I was 10-12 ish, I did the same. So we all start somewhere like this, but you move on, you then bought Mainline & Airfix locos (J72, Peak & 31) again wow they were good, but dearer than Triang-Hornby but thats progress. Look where we are now. Is Sam wants to show is metal, then get your track of off the carpet, up your game and be positive by showing your 'trillions' of followers how to improve, build a layout, and get serious. I like his style and presentation but in 2021 buying a Bachmann Class 24 and running it on your carpet. Each to there own. Hornby (Railroad) should sponsor him. Come on Sam. UP YOU GAME. Heck when i got my first model (an Trisng B12 set handed down from a family friend) i ran it on the carpet, bit with a thick sheet of corrugated cardboard so there was no direct carpet contact. On the few tikes since i have run on a tiled floor inhave hoovered and mopped the floor first. So really there is no excuse even for a beginner (or I was always super cautious and looked after my models...!) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PM47079 Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 9 hours ago, Max Legroom said: I’m considering 47012 with a view to renumbering as a ScR 47/0, ideally an Eastfield machine, but I have to admit that my knowledge of 47s is limited. I think the Brush built locos are 47001-16, 96-191 and 212-261 so this has thrown up 47120, 141 and 149 as possibilities. Is there anything else I need to consider, e.g. boiler panels on the roof? The boiler port will allow you to do several eastfield and haymarket locos. 47001/02 were HA in 1981 and 47012/013 were HA in 1981 47015 was ED in1978 all are close to 47012 in build details 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted August 9, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 9, 2021 15 hours ago, rob D2 said: Any idiot can get loads of people following them And thus the british political system is laid bare. 4 1 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted August 9, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 9, 2021 15 hours ago, TomScrut said: They might not put the cost of tooling against the runs of the item in question and simply capitalise it over the whole companies profit and loss. They might well for accounting purposes but that doesnt stop their pricing policy allowing for a recovery of the costs. When I dig a kit from the stash and find a label at half what you would currently pay for exactly the same thing, I cant help thinking models are comfortably outstripping interest rates and any of my proper investments! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 What I don't understand, is that Sam makes endless comments that evidence an entire ignorance of extremely basic economics and the costs of manufacture, together with what seems to me to be a mild vendetta against Bachmann, and the behaviour of an 8 year old; scooting his toys down the carpet. Yet the comments section seems to leave him largely unscathed for his manifest failings. Does he spend 8 hours a day deleting extremely obvious, and quite justified, comments? 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hal Nail said: They might well for accounting purposes but that doesnt stop their pricing policy allowing for a recovery of the costs. In the planning stages they'll have to be confident they can cover the tooling costs with any given project, otherwise they'd not do it, but once the tooling is bought, they are stuck with it and therefore the paying for it probably doesn't need to be attached to a particular type of item from an accounting perspective. Somebody will still have a record of whether the project makes money but it doesn't mean to say that the price of an item, will long term be attached to paying it's specific tooling off, but I doubt they'll be indexing prices of stuff against it's popularity and the outstanding tooling cost. It will more likely be when setting the prices for new releases that the tooling write down of the company as a whole over that particular year is classified as an overhead that needs covering in the same way their staff and buildings will be. Please bear in mind this is just conjecture, but I feel it is relevant. Edited August 9, 2021 by TomScrut Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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