Bachmann announce NEW Class 47

[davebem]

As with any hobby, we have to accept there are many different reasons why people are attracted to railways.  I think maybe Sams trains falls into the collecting aspect (and experimenting) more than modelling, prototype trains, scenery, realism, operations, engineering or anything else.  His reviews are useful in my opinion.  I think a high specification class 47 will appeal to most of these aspects, modellers who want the best model on the market, fans of the prototype and collectors.  Bachmann even said in their video somewhere it will look great on peoples shelves.  I think Sam will like it, especially if they accidentally send him the sound deluxe model but he paid for the base spec!

[atom3624]

How can a 37 ever be more popular than a 47?

What tosh!!

They (37 and 47) have proven very useful over a long period of time, but the 47 far more useful on many different duties, including regular express passenger - used to be in 47-hauled every weekend on the trans-Pennine myself.

 

Al.

Edited August 10, 2021 by atom3624

[TomScrut]

3 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

How can a 37 ever be more popular than a 47?

 

I have 5 37s, 3 more on order and likely to be added to.

 

0 47s and 0 on order (but will have one of these when an appropriate one comes along)

 

[atom3624]

Totally agree there.

47 bogie frames on the current Bachmann model can be a pain.

REAL 47 in its day was superb.

One seemed to be doing the railway equivalent of a 0-60 and was stopped at nearly every lights (signals) to be full-bore and pretty impressive pulling away - I think the driver was bored! 

(He was still at least 10' early into Lime Street at the end.)

Al.

Edited August 10, 2021 by atom3624

[wombatofludham]

I'd argue the 37 is as useful as the 47, with a lighter axle load yet decent power output.  47s are banned across Barmouth Bridge (although oddly two 67s did make it across without reducing it to matchwood) but 37s are allowed, so horses for courses really.

Both designs owe the British Taxpayer nothing having been the two stellar diesel class investments over the years, despite the 47 having a few cracking problems with the Sulzer engines (although there again, 37s were prone to the English Electric flashing traction motor problems as well).  They owe us nothing as railway traction goes.

[atom3624]

105t vs 123t - should permit more access with the same axles - agreed.

1,700 vs 2,700, erm, bit of a difference.

 

I am impressed how the 37's have proven themselves so useful for so long, but still prefer the 47 - despite pushing for a 40 somewhere else .... !!

 

Al.

[wombatofludham]

1750 compared to 2580 hp after derating, which was their rating for most of their operating life. However, tractive effort is virtually the same, 55000lb versus 55000 to 60000lb for Class 47.  It all comes down the the kind of traffic the railway needs traction for and at what speeds.  Given 37s worked the Great Eastern expresses to Norwich and King's Lynn alongside 47s in the 60s and 70s it would suggest there is some overlap in suitability for the actual traffic on the railway.

Anyway, I have a Bachmann 47 and  Accurascale 37s on order!

[stovepipe]

There always were a good percentage of 47s at Crewe getting fixed for flashing over trying to restart a heavy freight train, then the were the endless mods for brakes, train heat, slow speed control, push-pull, headlights, fuel tanks, cooling grilles, rewiring for series/parallel etc.
 

Not saying other types didn’t have their issues, but it was only the sheer numbers of them that meant BR had to persevere with them for so long. Availability was always lower too, though the type of work done ought to be factored in to the analysis.

[pheaton]

1 hour ago, atom3624 said:

105t vs 123t - should permit more access with the same axles - agreed.

1,700 vs 2,700, erm, bit of a difference.

 

I am impressed how the 37's have proven themselves so useful for so long, but still prefer the 47 - despite pushing for a 40 somewhere else .... !!

 

Al.

Extremely crude electronics compared to a class 47....and the english electric engine is far easier to get parts for...it came into being with the class 20 and ended with the class 56. Simplicity and parts availability is why 37s have carried on for so long.

[aureol40012]

3 hours ago, atom3624 said:

How can a 37 ever be more popular than a 47?

What tosh!!

They (37 and 47) have proven very useful over a long period of time, but the 47 far more useful on many different duties, including regular express passenger - used to be in 47-hauled every weekend on the trans-Pennine myself.

 

Al.

You seem to forget that 47s were hated with a pathological vengeance by a large proportion of bashers “back in the day”. One was actually vandalised to ensure it wouldn’t replace the booked 50 on a train once.

[55020]

I'm not totally convinced that model sales will be driven by which design was more successful in the real world.

 

A number of previous messages were interesting, but completely irrelevant and driven by personal bias

[atom3624]

Never came across anybody who disliked 47's.

I could understand a preference for 50's 'though - that extra 5mph does make a difference!!

 

Al.

[Ian J.]

When I was more interested in actual railways in the 1980s, 47s were always boring, as were 33/1s, and I grew to pretty much hate the sight of them. That was because they were the most common traction around and therefore dull as ditchwater.

 

Roll forward 30-35 years, and now they're rarities and when I hear them and smell their fumes, I get all notstalgic. Good models of both are 'needed' for me to model that so dull and boring period in my railway-interest history. Heljan's 33/1 is good enough, Bachmann's new 47 is certainly good enough (though working Serck slats wouldn't go amiss ).

[rob D2]

I think I actually preferred the “ it’s too expensive for me “ part of the thread, than the Willy waving “ my loco is more popular than yours “ bit !

[Mophead45143]

9 hours ago, aureol40012 said:

You seem to forget that 47s were hated with a pathological vengeance by a large proportion of bashers “back in the day”. One was actually vandalised to ensure it wouldn’t replace the booked 50 on a train once.

 

Such behaviours are still present today would you believe, especially when said persons have had a bit of alcohol in them.

 

One drunken peak fan got very upset that we put D1661 on top of 45041 at Minehead during a diesel gala a couple of years ago, in order to get the loco back to Williton. They kicked in the fire extinguisher glass on the side of the 47 to try and fail it!  

 

Cameron

[Pete the Elaner]

13 hours ago, atom3624 said:

How can a 37 ever be more popular than a 47?

What tosh!!

 

 

There are good reasons why a 37 can be a more useful model than a 47.

It depends on what people model, but their better prototype versatility also rubs off on modelling versatility.

 

37 was introduced first but not by long & both are still running, so not a big difference there.

The lower RA of most 37s allowed them to be used in places heavier locos were not allowed

Scottish modelling seems quite popular because it used more loco haulage for longer. When I think of the West Highland line, I think of a 37, not a 47.

It was common to see 37s double headed. This was less common with 47s. Anyone modelling a double headed train needs 2 locos, not 1.

I remember pairs of Stratford 37s running on freightliners & I need these for my layout. Stratford also had 47s but I never seemed to see them very often, so I can make do without. Are there many others with similar wants/needs to my own?

 

[TomScrut]

36 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Are there many others with similar wants/needs to my own?

 

Not similar in the reasons but given I am interested in present day (or from Jan 2020 onwards) the 37s are far more interesting because:

1. They get used for more things (test trains, moving nuclear wagons, railtours, moving MUs), I think the 47 only does 2 of those at present
2. There are far more relevant models of 37s, it is worth noting that I can think of 8 Bachmann 37 releases that would be relevant up until Colas's logo changing, which means other than that subtlety are relevant now (9 to last year when 521 was repainted). Then there are loads of AS releases that are as current. I don't think many (any?) Bachmann 47 releases are relevant to the present day (I'd be interested to know which are, the new 828 isn't close enough for me), and only 1 of the Heljan/Gaugemaster releases is.

So the 37 is kinda more popular for me by default given the models are there for me to buy.

[Chris56057]

45 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

Not similar in the reasons but given I am interested in present day (or from Jan 2020 onwards) the 37s are far more interesting because:

1. They get used for more things (test trains, moving nuclear wagons, railtours, moving MUs), I think the 47 only does 2 of those at present
2. There are far more relevant models of 37s, it is worth noting that I can think of 8 Bachmann 37 releases that would be relevant up until Colas's logo changing, which means other than that subtlety are relevant now (9 to last year when 521 was repainted). Then there are loads of AS releases that are as current. I don't think many (any?) Bachmann 47 releases are relevant to the present day (I'd be interested to know which are, the new 828 isn't close enough for me), and only 1 of the Heljan/Gaugemaster releases is.

So the 37 is kinda more popular for me by default given the models are there for me to buy.

 

It's obvious but it depends what era you model as to what loco classes are more popular etc. One example out of many is the 47's on Virgin XC runs back in the early 2000's - lots of different locos used and arguably perhaps they were more popular back then the 37's.

 

At the end of the day it's whatever interests you...

[griffgriff]

16 hours ago, atom3624 said:

How can a 37 ever be more popular than a 47?

What tosh!!

They (37 and 47) have proven very useful over a long period of time, but the 47 far more useful on many different duties, including regular express passenger - used to be in 47-hauled every weekend on the trans-Pennine myself.

 

Al.

It’s like comparing a 50’ flat screen TV with a fridge freezer…. One you want against one you need…. I remember the dismay I felt when I saw a 47 on the front…. Even a Tinsley one … popular they were not….  

…they were everywhere … make of that what you will

 

Griff

 

 

[Talltim]

On 03/08/2021 at 13:36, G-BOAF said:

No I'm not having a laugh

To make a huge announcement of 'we have a new model it will be here in a few weeks (and probably in limited numbers because no one makes stock to sit on shelves)'  is an insult to customers who might need to budget and plan their spending. There is generally an acceptance of  6-12 month (or longer) lead time for new models. This actually gives customers time to plan spending.

 

Hattons announced the 66 and it was at least 12 months until they were available for sale (and there DO generally seem to have been plenty to go round). Even the recent LNWR Improved Precedent has been a few months from announcement to delivery (probably approaching 6 by the time they actually appear)

You'd hate US manufacturer Moloco, whose normal modus operandi is to only announce models when they have them in their hands. They often sell out within a couple of days.

[atom3624]

1 hour ago, griffgriff said:

It’s like comparing a 50’ flat screen TV with a fridge freezer…. One you want against one you need…. I remember the dismay I felt when I saw a 47 on the front…. Even a Tinsley one … popular they were not….  

…they were everywhere … make of that what you will

 

Griff

 

 

I know in the day I wouldn't have been best pleased to see a 37 where my regular 47 was for the trans-Pennine!

That would have been my sentiments at the time.

Looking more closely, there's no reason why a 37 couldn't have done a perfectly adequate job, just not quite the same.

It all went a 'little strange' for a while when the HST was hitting the East Coast and you could even get a Deltic on it - that is definitely a case for EE.

Al.

[The Stationmaster]

17 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

I'd argue the 37 is as useful as the 47, with a lighter axle load yet decent power output.  47s are banned across Barmouth Bridge (although oddly two 67s did make it across without reducing it to matchwood) but 37s are allowed, so horses for courses really.

Both designs owe the British Taxpayer nothing having been the two stellar diesel class investments over the years, despite the 47 having a few cracking problems with the Sulzer engines (although there again, 37s were prone to the English Electric flashing traction motor problems as well).  They owe us nothing as railway traction goes.

Only problem with the Brush Type 4 was the number of mods it needed over its early years to get it right - automatic slack adjusters that carried on adjusting after all the slack had been taken out of the brake rigging were a pain although a bogie with burning brake blocks was for some, I suppose, fun to watch.  The thing I never liked about them was the riding and the body roll which could be quite alarming until you got used to it.  But once they were sorted and the engines were corrected - yes pretty good value for money.  But someone made a major error of using the original Brush Type 4 drawings for various parts of the Class 56 with the result that they suffered exactly the same problems that the Brush Type 4s had suffered - not clever!

 

EE Type 3s - a nice powerful mobile brick outhouse, solid as rock and pull anything (albeit sometimes a little slowly) while taking all the bad treatment any of the worst freight jobs could dish out.  On some of our South Wales Valleys jobs they could get through a set of brake blocks in four days if they were left on the same turn day-after-day.

[G-BOAF]

2 hours ago, Talltim said:

You'd hate US manufacturer Moloco, whose normal modus operandi is to only announce models when they have them in their hands. They often sell out within a couple of days.

So if you are off email/internet for a few days for whatever reason (be it health, holiday, intense focus or crisis in personal or professional life) you miss out.

What a stressful way to treat your customers.

A Hobby is supposed to be relaxing and enjoyable, not stress inducuing (although the problems with model railway equipment, QC issues, and returns means that 50% of my modelling time is already stressfull)

[Halvarras]

15 hours ago, Ian J. said:

When I was more interested in actual railways in the 1980s, 47s were always boring, as were 33/1s, and I grew to pretty much hate the sight of them. That was because they were the most common traction around and therefore dull as ditchwater.

 

In the mid-late 1960s the Cornish teenage me was bored with seeing Westerns and Warships every day - then one afternoon in September 1967 a pair of rectangular windscreens hove into view and I assumed it was either D7029 or D7088 back again........nope, it was D1677 'Thor'! First sight of a Brush Type 4, I was smitten and I've liked them ever since, especially in two-tone green.

I grew to appreciate Westerns and Warships more in later years.......after they'd all gone. The follies of yoof.....

[MikeParkin65]

Remembering this is a hobby I think Charlie is right that a 37 generates more enthusiasm  than a 47. As a supplier of DCC sound I am sure he is also thinking 37's sound a lot more dramatic