Bachmann announce NEW Class 47

[97406]

13 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Remembering this is a hobby I think Charlie is right that a 37 generates more enthusiasm  than a 47. As a supplier of DCC sound I am sure he is also thinking 37's sound a lot more dramatic

For me, the general guide when it used to come to thrash involved larger English Electrics and smaller Sulzers. I was lucky to witness plenty of 40s and 25s when I was a kid, so that may have influenced that view.

 

Not that I dislike 47s. A nice piece of design, even though the banger blue ones used to make me groan when they turned up at the time!

[newbryford]

3 hours ago, Talltim said:

You'd hate US manufacturer Moloco, whose normal modus operandi is to only announce models when they have them in their hands. They often sell out within a couple of days.

 

B*gger - that doesn't give me time to save up..........

[Talltim]

On 04/08/2021 at 09:54, adb968008 said:

interesting thought but the 47 is now the 7th generation tooling (Hornby, Lima, Bachmann, Vitrains, Heljan, Heljanx2 Bachmann x2).

 

Has any other model been tooled 7 times ?

 

(Previously the class 52 Western I thought was the most tooled at 5x. Trix, Hornby, Lima, Heljan, Dapol).

Gotta be the EMD F7

Tyco, Kato, Athearn (x at least 2), Atlas, Intermountain, Bachmann (x2), Walthers (x2) Rapido (well it s a GMD FP7, but...), Stewart/Bowser

and thats just of the top of my head, there's probably other older ones

Edited August 11, 2021 by Talltim

[Monkersson]

3 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

So if you are off email/internet for a few days for whatever reason (be it health, holiday, intense focus or crisis in personal or professional life) you miss out.

What a stressful way to treat your customers.

 

Seriously?

 

What is stressful about not getting the latest model?

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, Monkersson said:

Seriously?

 

What is stressful about not getting the latest model?

 

If somebody wants something, then they may try their hardest to get it in inconvenient circumstances and therefore that leads to a stressful shopping experience. Getting the latest, newest model is something a lot of us get excited about, why do you think they do new models? 

 

I expect if I was trying to buy trains while abroad on holiday I'd be getting my ear chewed, regardless of thinking about internet access, the bank blocking payment as the transaction is abroad and the like.

 

As opposed to returning from holiday and going "ah, that's out, I'll order it now".

 

I aren't saying I'd be stressed out by it, but I can relate as to why some might find that business approach stressful. When all's said and done the reason most of us are on here is because we care about our model railways in one way or another, and therefore getting stressed about something not going your way on it is not as ridiculous as you seem to be making out. Yes it's, life, but life is stressful at times. Not forgetting that stress is all relative to what people are used to and what importance somebody places on what they are getting stressed about.

Edited August 11, 2021 by TomScrut

[Monkersson]

9 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

If somebody wants something, then they may try their hardest to get it in inconvenient circumstances and therefore that leads to a stressful shopping experience. Getting the latest, newest model is something a lot of us get excited about, why do you think they do new models? 

 

I expect if I was trying to buy trains while abroad on holiday I'd be getting my ear chewed, regardless of thinking about internet access, the bank blocking payment as the transaction is abroad and the like.

 

As opposed to returning from holiday and going "ah, that's out, I'll order it now".

 

I aren't saying I'd be stressed out by it, but I can relate as to why some might find that business approach stressful. When all's said and done the reason most of us are on here is because we care about our model railways in one way or another, and therefore getting stressed about something not going your way on it is not as ridiculous as you seem to be making out. Yes it's, life, but life is stressful at times. Not forgetting that stress is all relative to what people are used to and what importance somebody places on what they are getting stressed about.

Not having money to buy food is stressful.  Not being able to access medical treatment is stressful.  Not being able to visit a dying family member in hospital is stressful. 

 

Not being able to buy model trains is not stressful in any way.  Annoying, yes, maybe even inconvenient. but not being able to buy a model train stresses someone out, then they need to take a look at themselves.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Monkersson

[Rugd1022]

5 hours ago, Neil Phillips said:

 

In the mid-late 1960s the Cornish teenage me was bored with seeing Westerns and Warships every day - then one afternoon in September 1967 a pair of rectangular windscreens hove into view and I assumed it was either D7029 or D7088 back again........nope, it was D1677 'Thor'! First sight of a Brush Type 4, I was smitten and I've liked them ever since, especially in two-tone green.

I grew to appreciate Westerns and Warships more in later years.......after they'd all gone. The follies of yoof.....

 

I've just got back from a long winded Crewe job where I grabbed a crafty shot of D1935 in two tone green at the depot on my way to the station, it looked absolutely superb in this livery, the icing on the cake being the reinstated bufferbeam cowlings and the original style radiator grilles at no.1 end. The two shades of green looked spot on, as did the red on the bufferbeams, it was quite a shock to see one looking so good, all that was missing were the old headcode blinds at each end.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Rugd1022

[Rugd1022]

6 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Only problem with the Brush Type 4 was the number of mods it needed over its early years to get it right - automatic slack adjusters that carried on adjusting after all the slack had been taken out of the brake rigging were a pain although a bogie with burning brake blocks was for some, I suppose, fun to watch.  The thing I never liked about them was the riding and the body roll which could be quite alarming until you got used to it.  But once they were sorted and the engines were corrected - yes pretty good value for money.  But someone made a major error of using the original Brush Type 4 drawings for various parts of the Class 56 with the result that they suffered exactly the same problems that the Brush Type 4s had suffered - not clever!

 

EE Type 3s - a nice powerful mobile brick outhouse, solid as rock and pull anything (albeit sometimes a little slowly) while taking all the bad treatment any of the worst freight jobs could dish out.  On some of our South Wales Valleys jobs they could get through a set of brake blocks in four days if they were left on the same turn day-after-day.

 

I always enjoyed the way they rolled about Mike but it usually depended which driver you were with - there is one particular location where it seemed to be more pronounced than anywhere else, the 75mph 'S' bend between Fenny Compton and Bishops Itchington and on more than one occasion I was with 'mad' Bill Sarney on the Padd - Brums with a 47 and he took it at knocking on a three figure speed which shall remain nameless. Happy days indeed .

[TomScrut]

51 minutes ago, Monkersson said:

Not having money to buy food is stressful.  Not being able to access medical treatment is stressful.  Not being able to visit a dying family member in hospital is stressful. 

 

Not being able to buy model trains is not stressful in any way.  Annoying, yes, maybe even inconvenient. but not being able to buy a model train stresses someone out, then they need to take a look at themselves.

 

Sorry I was not aware that stress was a binary phenomenon. I was of the opinion that an inconvenience or an annoyance could in fact be stressful in a minor way, especially when involving things we are passionate about, so thanks for correcting me.

 

Anyway, the entire point of the post you were mocking to begin with still stands, it doesn't really seem to make sense for a business to apply annoyance, irritation or stress (which wouldn't be the word I'd have used, but I didn't like you ridiculing it nonetheless) to their customers.

[Monkersson]

7 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

Sorry I was not aware that stress was a binary phenomenon. I was of the opinion that an inconvenience or an annoyance could in fact be stressful in a minor way, especially when involving things we are passionate about, so thanks for correcting me.

 

Anyway, the entire point of the post you were mocking to begin with still stands, it doesn't really seem to make sense for a business to apply annoyance, irritation or stress (which wouldn't be the word I'd have used, but I didn't like you ridiculing it nonetheless) to their customers.

If a person is off line for a few days and in that timeframe, Moloco, or any company, announce and sell out of a new product, that the person was unaware of in the first place, how can that company be tarnished with applying annoyance, irritation or stress?  

 

Have a look at Moloco's website, their business approach certainly hasn't harmed them

 

Personally, I think it makes sense.  If you miss out, you miss out, its not going to change your life. 

 

Chances are you'll get it eventually.  

[TomScrut]

35 minutes ago, Monkersson said:

If a person is off line for a few days and in that timeframe, Moloco, or any company, announce and sell out of a new product, that the person was unaware of in the first place, how can that company be tarnished with applying annoyance, irritation or stress? 

 

I accept that if they sell out within a few days whether it's 6 months before they have a product in hand or if it's when it's with them then it makes no odds, you probably miss out. If that is something that is consistently happening though then maybe making more would make them more money and reduce any negativity that comes from not making enough? I get it is a difficult thing to gauge though.

[mdvle]

11 hours ago, Talltim said:

You'd hate US manufacturer Moloco, whose normal modus operandi is to only announce models when they have them in their hands. They often sell out within a couple of days.

 

Tangent operates the same way, and last year they had models selling out in hours - days would have been a luxury.

 

Needless to say Tangent had a very disgruntled customer base at times last year.

Edited August 11, 2021 by mdvle

[Dunsignalling]

12 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

I accept that if they sell out within a few days whether it's 6 months before they have a product in hand or if it's when it's with them then it makes no odds, you probably miss out. If that is something that is consistently happening though then maybe making more would make them more money and reduce any negativity that comes from not making enough? I get it is a difficult thing to gauge though.

Looking at their website, they sell exclusively freight cars. At a guess, doing everything in the same run size makes their relationship with whoever makes them easy to manage on both sides.

 

Whilst most items appear to sell out quickly, they are offered with alternative running numbers and one or two generally seem hang around a bit longer. On that basis, you are only likely to miss out entirely if you want multiple/all versions and you are slow to order. 

 

I'd think you can sign up for email notifications (possibly even standing orders) but dithering is clearly not an option.....Presumably, regular customers soon get the hang of it.

 

Whilst it wouldn't work across the board for generalist outfits like Bachmann and Hornby, it represents a very efficient way of selling a relatively narrow range of products. The first-come-first-served MO means staffing  can be optimised to handle a constant and predictable workload. If they are making what they regard as a sufficient return from doing things their way, why complicate matters just to wring a bit more out of occasional exceptionally popular items? Especially as you won't know which those are until after the event.

 

Bachmann 47 batches will presumably be uniform in size, so they are effectively following the idea for that model, however else they treat other releases and their back catalogue.....

 

John  

Edited August 12, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[YesTor]

On 08/08/2021 at 15:08, rob D2 said:

Any idiot can get loads of people following them on the internet and believing everything they say - have a look at some “ influencers “. ( is that really a job ??! )

 

Some of those "idiots" make a lot of money from doing comparatively little.  That doesn't sound so daft to my ear... 

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by YesTor

[Clive Mortimore]

All the waffle about companies that sell out quickly of models and leave disgruntled customers. When selling something (and having it made)  you order the amount what you think will sell and make a profit. Take the corner shop, he will order in 20 medium cut loaves every day, knowing if he sell 15 he will start to see a profit. Some days he has a surplus of loaves, not always making a profit. Other days he will have a disgruntled customer who has to take home the last thick white loaf.

 

I think it is a great business model, make and sell what you know will make a profit, don't be too greedy and make more because you will end up will a pile of boxes that are not going anywhere. So if there are disgruntled (potential) customers, it is only toy trains, but please feel sorry for the guy who takes home the thick white loaf as his wife tells him off for not getting to the corner shop on time to by her the medium cut loaf.

 

Still not sure if I will buy a Bachmann 47 or a Heljan one or neither.

[No Decorum]

10 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

 

Still not sure if I will buy a Bachmann 47 or a Heljan one or neither.

Same here. I’m curious about the Heljan one and the Bachmann is a superb model. Whether I get yet another 47 depends on what else is around at the time and there is an awful lot else around at the moment, with even more suddenly appearing out of nowhere. From what is said on here, Bachmann wouldn’t miss my non-purchase of a 47.

[Legend]

Its another sign of the times we love in . Things get very complex . Bachmann have to decide how many 47s to make , then they have to decide on each of the three levels . Perhaps they should just have gone with full sound and fan version and DCC ready versions. Might have made life simpler .  I also dont envy model shops deciding how many of each level to buy and then how many of each livery . Will tie up a lot of working capital if they get it wrong .

[KDG]

9 hours ago, YesTor said:

 

Some of those "idiots" make a lot of money from doing comparatively little.  That doesn't sound so daft to my ear... 

 

Yes. Some Doris who won one of those "reality" TV shows recently apparently earns 35k for each post she puts on Instagram about her fripparies.  She's not so daft then, it's the punters who buy in to it....

[ruggedpeak]

9 hours ago, YesTor said:

 

Some of those "idiots" make a lot of money from doing comparatively little.  That doesn't sound so daft to my ear... 

 

Wish I was smart enough to be one of those idiots!!

[The Stationmaster]

14 hours ago, Rugd1022 said:

 

I always enjoyed the way they rolled about Mike but it usually depended which driver you were with - there is one particular location where it seemed to be more pronounced than anywhere else, the 75mph 'S' bend between Fenny Compton and Bishops Itchington and on more than one occasion I was with 'mad' Bill Sarney on the Padd - Brums with a 47 and he took it at knocking on a three figure speed which shall remain nameless. Happy days indeed .

One of the worst places was the Up Main at Friars Jcn oin the acton side of the overbridge and it felt like the thing was going to go down to the left and never come up whereas a Hymek rode the spot like a Spanish Galleon of state with not so much as a hint of anything deflecting its steady course.   But that would be before your time at Old Oak because it all got a lot better once the connections had been removed the cant was improved.

 

And unlike one or two i could name at Old Oak ill wasn't so much 'mad' as the sort of bloke who 'went for it'.

49 minutes ago, Legend said:

Its another sign of the times we love in . Things get very complex . Bachmann have to decide how many 47s to make , then they have to decide on each of the three levels . Perhaps they should just have gone with full sound and fan version and DCC ready versions. Might have made life simpler .  I also dont envy model shops deciding how many of each level to buy and then how many of each livery . Will tie up a lot of working capital if they get it wrong .

I can see a lot of retailers working very much to pre-orders rather than. putting money into stock which might be slow to shift.  This sort of complexir ty with multiple options is already a problem with Horn by so i understand although in that case it's the retailer and customer who suffer because it seems that the number of each variant produced is being reduced with the overall total not increasing to take avccount of more variants.

[Talltim]

11 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Whilst it wouldn't work across the board for generalist outfits like Bachmann and Hornby, it represents a very efficient way of selling a relatively narrow range of products. The first-come-first-served MO means staffing  can be optimised to handle a constant and predictable workload. If they are making what they regard as a sufficient return from doing things their way, why complicate matters just to wring a bit more out of occasional exceptionally popular items? Especially as you won't know which those are until after the event.

 

 

Hence making the business of selling models of trains less stressful...

[Butler Henderson]

The current collectors club mag has an article on the model and lists the relevant time periods for each version.

 

D1565 1964-1969 (when it then received full yellow ends), allocations Darnall  Mar 1964 for less than 2 months, Immingham in Autumn 64, March early 65, Ipswich May1968, Immingham Apr 1969.

 

47012 1978-1980 allocated to Crewe

 

47004 Nov 1990-end 1991 Tinsley, then at Old Oak Common livery ok to end of 1994 (no mention of depot plaque needing changing). Substitution of supplied depot plaque with a West Highland Terrier one will allow its time at Eastfield late 1989-Nov 1990 to be portrayed 

 

47375 Tinsley from June 1994 (no end date mentioned) 

 

47828 1990-1996 Bristol Bath Road then Crewe

[wombatofludham]

3 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

The current collectors club mag has an article on the model and lists the relevant time periods for each version.

 

D1565 1964-1969 (when it then received full yellow ends), allocations Darnall  Mar 1964 for less than 2 months, Immingham in Autumn 64, March early 65, Ipswich May1968, Immingham Apr 1969.

 

47012 1978-1980 allocated to Crewe

 

47004 Nov 1990-end 1991 Tinsley, then at Old Oak Common livery ok to end of 1994 (no mention of depot plaque needing changing). Substitution of supplied depot plaque with a West Highland Terrier one will allow its time at Eastfield late 1989-Nov 1990 to be portrayed 

 

47375 Tinsley from June 1994 (no end date mentioned) 

 

47828 1990-1996 Bristol Bath Road then Crewe

Very useful information, thanks for sharing.  It confirms pretty much what I had been finding using Flickr and other sources. As it happens, only 828 fits my layout timetable dates although D1565 could fit my 1967 timetable.

[Sir TophamHatt]

On 03/08/2021 at 13:06, G-BOAF said:

I'm actually a bit p*ssed off about this.

Announcing a whole range of models with just a few weeks to budget/save up is rediculous, especially with so much else in the pipeline (e.g. V2s, Accurascale Deltics to say nothing of progress on the Hornby 91)

Yes so too is 6 year lead times, but surely a 12 month horizon is not too much to ask?

 

On the plus side, I doubt they will be releasing a model I am intersted in in the first batch (I hope...)

Understandable but save money each month anyway?

 

I am completely against announcing stuff and then waiting for years.  Yes, the 158 probably had other delays but they've still only released two liveries.

The 170 - announced but then cancelled.

 

Bachmann's model of announcing when they're practically ready means the wait is considerably less.  Plus, you'll still have a few months to save - even up to a year before they all start disappearing.

[The Black Hat]

21 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Understandable but save money each month anyway?

 

I am completely against announcing stuff and then waiting for years.  Yes, the 158 probably had other delays but they've still only released two liveries.

The 170 - announced but then cancelled.

 

Bachmann's model of announcing when they're practically ready means the wait is considerably less.  Plus, you'll still have a few months to save - even up to a year before they all start disappearing.

When was the class 170 cancelled? I don't believe it is. 

Edited August 17, 2021 by The Black Hat