Bachmann announce NEW Class 47

[Matt]

Personally I find myself in a dilemma - I have a reasonable fleet of 47s of both Bach and Vitrains heritage. If the new 47 is much improved, I’m worried my older models will look bad... but if the new model sits well alongside the older ones then I don’t need the upgrade as the difference isn’t significant enough! Added to this is the rate Bach releases new liveries at means it could take 20yrs to replace my varied fleet with new models.  This is where Heljan May score as their track record has been for delivering wide ranges of liveries quickly. Finally unlike some of my other older models (e.g. Bach 66), the current 47 will pull anything I need it to.... but 47004 backdated to ED version does call my name..... (should add that I’m not a DCC sound fan so that aspect doesn’t sway me).

[brushman47544]

Someone will be suggesting next that manufacturers deliberately include minor errors in their models so there is room for improvement at a future date to encourage modellers to upgrade.

[Monkersson]

9 minutes ago, Matt said:

Personally I find myself in a dilemma - I have a reasonable fleet of 47s of both Bach and Vitrains heritage. If the new 47 is much improved, I’m worried my older models will look bad... but if the new model sits well alongside the older ones then I don’t need the upgrade as the difference isn’t significant enough! Added to this is the rate Bach releases new liveries at means it could take 20yrs to replace my varied fleet with new models.  This is where Heljan May score as their track record has been for delivering wide ranges of liveries quickly. Finally unlike some of my other older models (e.g. Bach 66), the current 47 will pull anything I need it to.... but 47004 backdated to ED version does call my name..... (should add that I’m not a DCC sound fan so that aspect doesn’t sway me).

I have 3 Lima 47's and a Heljan 47, all detailed/resprayed/weathered.  I doubt they'd stand up to the latest Bach 47 (and probably not to the current one) but they look exactly how I want them to so I wont be replacing them with the latest release, however that doesn't mean I wont buy one to supplement my fleet - I'm looking to do a 47/8 in IC Swallow like the one proposed.  I do have an existing Bach 47 I picked up cheap waiting for a respray into RF Grey.

 

There seems to be a 'must replace my old models' pattern when a new loco is released, which is great for the manufacturers, and great for those, like me, who like to fettle models to their own preference

Edited August 24, 2021 by Monkersson

[Monkersson]

5 minutes ago, brushman47544 said:

Someone will be suggesting next that manufacturers deliberately include minor errors in their models so there is room for improvement at a future date to encourage modellers to upgrade.

Model Railways, the next conspiracy theory subject!

[Halvarras]

6 hours ago, caradoc said:

Apologies if the question has already been asked, but is there any reason apart from the domino headcodes (easily changed) why BR blue 47012 would not be suitable from it's TOPS renumbering date onwards ? 

 

 

It wasn't one of those renumbered while still in green livery so if you're proposing to run it in 1974/5 condition with 'operational' headcodes you should be on safe ground!

[rob D2]

53 minutes ago, Matt said:

Personally I find myself in a dilemma - I have a reasonable fleet of 47s of both Bach and Vitrains heritage. If the new 47 is much improved, I’m worried my older models will look bad... but if the new model sits well alongside the older ones then I don’t need the upgrade as the difference isn’t significant enough! Added to this is the rate Bach releases new liveries at means it could take 20yrs to replace my varied fleet with new models.  This is where Heljan May score as their track record has been for delivering wide ranges of liveries quickly. Finally unlike some of my other older models (e.g. Bach 66), the current 47 will pull anything I need it to.... but 47004 backdated to ED version does call my name..... (should add that I’m not a DCC sound fan so that aspect doesn’t sway me).

Well, it’ll come down to , do you consider the new one to be £100 extra better ? I have about 6-7 bachy ones I’ve brought in last few years and I’m reasonable happy with them, for £100-120… they are not my favourite loco class though so £200 plus would be too much for me as “ fillers “

[Matt]

1 minute ago, rob D2 said:

Well, it’ll come down to , do you consider the new one to be £100 extra better ? I have about 6-7 bachy ones I’ve brought in last few years and I’m reasonable happy with them, for £100-120… they are not my favourite loco class though so £200 plus would be too much for me as “ fillers “

Or do I buy 2 old ones....  I’m more likely to pluck up courage to weather an older one and TBH well weathered models make a big difference to me...

 

My layout is more a trains in landscape affair so absolute detail is lost when running at speed - good haulage and smooth running without derailments are top of my list. Some locos fall short here but the current Bachmann 47 is more than adequate in those regards

[TomScrut]

8 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

favourite loco class though so £200 plus would be too much for me as “ fillers “

 

That's the rub really isn't it. Stuff is getting to the point where you're going to have to really want it to buy it anywhere near RRP. I am OK with one 47 at that sort of money as I do like to have as many different classes of loco as possible and I don't have a 47 but I won't be buying a fleet of them like I already have with 66s, 68s and 37s. 66s more that they are the bread and butter of modern freight than actually liking them.

 

But, I'd rather have fewer good models than tonnes of OK ones. I only have so much space.

[Clive Mortimore]

Does anyone run  their model railway for fun?

 

I still run my Hornby Brush 4s, they have had some modelling done on them but like running that too is fun. They run alongside Lima, Haljan, ViTrains and Bachmann ones, they all look like Brush 4s when doing a scale 85mph with a train behind them as circulate around my train set room.

 

Have fun and don't get too uptight if the latest loco is more detailed than the last one, just enjoy seeing the one you have.

[Mophead45143]

2 hours ago, rob D2 said:

It’s a brave move them making this - as pointed out there is a lot of credible opposition from Heljan and their own current offering. This has to be right on the money at today’s price point .

 

personally I’d have gone head to head with a new all singing and dancing version of the 66 to take  hattons on , as those machines will be around for a long time and any new entrants to the hobby will need one for the foreseeable future .

 

Yes, but isn't the Hattons 66 the 'definitive 66' in 00 gauge in terms of shape & detail? As long as the detail hasn't fallen off in the box that is.... 

 

It's been said many times already, but there has never been a definitive 47 in 00, all have had errors of some description. The new Heljan one already seems to be wrong from the CADs shown (no surprise there...).

 

The 47 was the '66' of it's day, most D&E modellers will have at least one. 

 

Cameron

[Mophead45143]

2 hours ago, Matt said:

Personally I find myself in a dilemma - I have a reasonable fleet of 47s of both Bach and Vitrains heritage. If the new 47 is much improved, I’m worried my older models will look bad... but if the new model sits well alongside the older ones then I don’t need the upgrade as the difference isn’t significant enough! Added to this is the rate Bach releases new liveries at means it could take 20yrs to replace my varied fleet with new models.  This is where Heljan May score as their track record has been for delivering wide ranges of liveries quickly. Finally unlike some of my other older models (e.g. Bach 66), the current 47 will pull anything I need it to.... but 47004 backdated to ED version does call my name..... (should add that I’m not a DCC sound fan so that aspect doesn’t sway me).

 

I don't think the previous Bachmann model has significant enough issues shape wise, such that they would look odd next to the new one. I don't plan on replacing mine, having tweaked them to make them look better. I will however be getting one or two of the new ones to compliment the fleet.

 

Cameron

[Mophead45143]

8 hours ago, caradoc said:

Apologies if the question has already been asked, but is there any reason apart from the domino headcodes (easily changed) why BR blue 47012 would not be suitable from it's TOPS renumbering date onwards ? 

 

 

No reason that I can think of, the livery samples show it in typical 1970's condition (dual brake, steam heat). Like you say the domino's need changing if you want to back date it. It still had '0000' displayed at least as late as Spring 1977, and of course anything pre 1976 would be proper headcodes.

 

Cameron

[Monkersson]

55 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Does anyone run  their model railway for fun?

 

I still run my Hornby Brush 4s, they have had some modelling done on them but like running that too is fun. They run alongside Lima, Haljan, ViTrains and Bachmann ones, they all look like Brush 4s when doing a scale 85mph with a train behind them as circulate around my train set room.

 

Have fun and don't get too uptight if the latest loco is more detailed than the last one, just enjoy seeing the one you have.

I do!  Well, I will when I finish it!  

 

I have a mish-mash of most manufacturers products rubbing shoulders (not just with 47s), all are detailed to a point, repainted etc but have a consistent finish.  I can sometimes find it quite hard to tell which is which, even close up!

 

What I like about more modern tooled loco's is the drive-train, almost always consistently smooth - I'm not into DCC Sound, and I disable any lighting on my stock.  I've done quite a bit of work on Lima/Hornby/Mainline pancakes so they run smoother - low speed is important to me as its an end to end layout I'm building.

 

I'll happily run the latest 47 alongside 30 year old tickled Lima's, by the time I do what I like doing to it, it'll will be quite indistinguishable from my others

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

14 hours ago, Monkersson said:

I do!  Well, I will when I finish it!  

 

I have a mish-mash of most manufacturers products rubbing shoulders (not just with 47s), all are detailed to a point, repainted etc but have a consistent finish.  I can sometimes find it quite hard to tell which is which, even close up!

 

What I like about more modern tooled loco's is the drive-train, almost always consistently smooth - I'm not into DCC Sound, and I disable any lighting on my stock.  I've done quite a bit of work on Lima/Hornby/Mainline pancakes so they run smoother - low speed is important to me as its an end to end layout I'm building.

 

I'll happily run the latest 47 alongside 30 year old tickled Lima's, by the time I do what I like doing to it, it'll will be quite indistinguishable from my others

I'm in a similar boat, could afford to replace everything with the latest release but will only buy selectively because I don't want to bin the Lima 47's I've had for over 25 years. I grew up with those models and have put effort into them - their only drawback for me is the noise/performance and that is now addressable without spending £200 on a loco and putting the old one in the bin.

 

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

On 23/08/2021 at 22:38, Class 158 productions said:

Probably the fact there have been multiple duffs at a ‘decent’ level for some time. Whereas many areas go untouched, DMUs, EMUs…

They don't help their own cause by not "maxing out" on existing moudlings. Only 3 new 158's so far, and the 150/2 is still to be released in many liveries carried by multiple class members. The Provincial "running man" Sprinter version as worn by all 85 of them still hasn't been done, nor has the Wessex purple/pink which was a staple livery for many years.

 

[rob D2]

15 hours ago, Mophead45143 said:

 

Yes, but isn't the Hattons 66 the 'definitive 66' in 00 gauge in terms of shape & detail? As long as the detail hasn't fallen off in the box that is.... 

 

It's been said many times already, but there has never been a definitive 47 in 00, all have had errors of some description. The new Heljan one already seems to be wrong from the CADs shown (no surprise there...).

 

The 47 was the '66' of it's day, most D&E modellers will have at least one. 

 

Cameron

Most ? Define most……anybody modelling 2010 plus , may find a use, but they are few and far between these days ( empty stock move or the inevitable yellow train ).

 

Most DE modellers doing 1960s to 90s May, but we are well past that now .

 

 

[Graham108]

48 minutes ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

I'm in a similar boat, could afford to replace everything with the latest release but will only buy selectively because I don't want to bin the Lima 47's I've had for over 25 years. I grew up with those models and have put effort into them - their only drawback for me is the noise/performance and that is now addressable without spending £200 on a loco and putting the old one in the bin.

 

How to you intend to achieve that please?

[Mophead45143]

46 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

Most ? Define most……anybody modelling 2010 plus , may find a use, but they are few and far between these days ( empty stock move or the inevitable yellow train ).

 

Most DE modellers doing 1960s to 90s May, but we are well past that now .

 

 

 

I put most in italics for that reason. Regardless, my point still stands. As many people, if not more, model the 1960's to around 2010, as those who model from 2010 to the present day.

 

Therefore there is at least as much, if not more, demand for a 47 as there is a 66. Bachmann do a good 66, and Hattons do an excellent 66 (fiddly bits that fall off aside). Both are still available and will no doubt see new runs. 

 

No one has ever really done an 'excellent' 47, so it surely makes sense that Bachmann are going to now. Well, hopefully it'll be excellent anyway!

 

Cameron

[rob D2]

29 minutes ago, Mophead45143 said:

 

I put most in italics for that reason. Regardless, my point still stands. As many people, if not more, model the 1960's to around 2010, as those who model from 2010 to the present day.

 

Therefore there is at least as much, if not more, demand for a 47 as there is a 66. Bachmann do a good 66, and Hattons do an excellent 66 (fiddly bits that fall off aside). Both are still available and will no doubt see new runs. 

 

No one has ever really done an 'excellent' 47, so it surely makes sense that Bachmann are going to now. Well, hopefully it'll be excellent anyway!

 

Cameron

My point is - how do you know that ? Where’s the proof - or do you know 5 modellers and 3 of them model up to 2010 ? I think we’d need solid facts to back that up, personnaly, I was surprised how many model the current scene.

 

However , I still feel the Bachmann one is getting a bit long in the tooth now in terms of finesse and functionality - if they could keep it sub £120 it may have a bit more left I guess.

 

But, if Bachmann don’t update it , it’s like Nissan never changing the Qashqai features or design ( other cars are available ) , it’s a must have of any range , the white bread of modelling locos , it kinda has to keep up with technology or they will lose market share eventually .

 

 

[TomScrut]

30 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

However , I still feel the Bachmann one is getting a bit long in the tooth now in terms of finesse and functionality - if they could keep it sub £120 it may have a bit more left I guess.

 

As what I said here, I think a circuit board upgrade would do a good job of shutting the gap, and other than the original WIPAC locos wouldn't actually need any tooling mods other than the boards.

 

34 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

it’s a must have of any range , the white bread of modelling locos , it kinda has to keep up with technology or they will lose market share eventually .

 

Exactly, anyone doing freight in the last 20ish years is pretty much compelled to have several 66s given the vast majority of freight in the UK is hauled by them.

 

But, there were 512 47s, so anyone in the relevant eras probably has a good case to have several of those too. I wouldn't say one is more important than the other, although ones relevance is pretty much capped now other than niche work and preservation while the other is increasing with time and in the case of a retool, it is not just about the now. If they are wanting this tooling to last 15-20 years (for example, I think that sounds reasonable) that I expect that in that period of time the interest in the eras relevant to 47s will fall*, the interest in the 66 era (as such) will increase and the timescale the 66 is relevant for will have gone from 20 to 40 years making it a double gain for the 66s against a possible fall for the 47. Hornby obviously think the market wants 66s, and the *may* be aiming railroad at the younger generations who in the future may move upmarket.

 

*simply because I think a proportion of people modelling that era will unfortunately die or no longer be able to carry on with the hobby due to age, and they probably won't be replaced at the same rate by younger people.

 

1 hour ago, Mophead45143 said:

As many people, if not more, model the 1960's to around 2010, as those who model from 2010 to the present day.

 

As above, I do think over the life of the tooling the dynamic will change. That doesn't mean to say I think Bachmann have made a mistake as I expect it will be a popular model.

[GordonC]

3 hours ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

They don't help their own cause by not "maxing out" on existing moudlings. Only 3 new 158's so far, and the 150/2 is still to be released in many liveries carried by multiple class members. The Provincial "running man" Sprinter version as worn by all 85 of them still hasn't been done, nor has the Wessex purple/pink which was a staple livery for many years.

 

 

The way they've produced Class 150's I just find baffling. The powered bogie looks awful being visible as a dark chunk in the interior when combined with the internal lighting and the price of them is getting harder to justify with RRPs between £295 and £320 for a 2 car unit. With the Class 158s I can almost understand the higher prices with 2 separately powered low profile mechanisms with loads of lighting functions so the complexity is higher.

[Phil Mc]

3 hours ago, rob D2 said:

Most ? Define most……anybody modelling 2010 plus , may find a use, but they are few and far between these days ( empty stock move or the inevitable yellow train ).

 

 

 

2 hours ago, rob D2 said:

My point is - how do you know that ? Where’s the proof -

I think we’d need solid facts to back that up

 

Sorry, this just made me chuckle-

 

stating 47’s are used on ‘yellow’ trains in one post ( they simply aren’t !! )…

…and demanding ‘proof’ and ‘facts’ in another post.

 

No offence meant to “rob D2”, he’s far from being the only one to do this ( I dare say I’ve done it myself if I read back through my posts ) but maybe if people paused, thought, and checked their own facts, before hitting the Submit Reply button it would save Andy Y pulling his hair out (& threads being locked)……and cut down on the amount of posts that are irrelevant to the topic.

I dare say 10 out of the 24 pages in this thread are nothing to do with Bachmann’s new 47 !

 

Anyway, I’ll get back down off my high-horse now…..

 

cheers,

Phil.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Phil Mc

[rob D2]

52 minutes ago, Phil Mc said:

 

Sorry, this just made me chuckle-

 

stating 47’s are used on ‘yellow’ trains in one post ( they simply aren’t !! )…

…and demanding ‘proof’ and ‘facts’ in another post.

 

No offence meant to “rob D2”, he’s far from being the only one to do this ( I dare say I’ve done it myself if I read back through my posts ) but maybe if people paused, thought, and checked their own facts, before hitting the Submit Reply button it would save Andy Y pulling his hair out (& threads being locked)……and cut down on the amount of posts that are irrelevant to the topic.

I dare say 10 out of the 24 pages in this thread are nothing to do with Bachmann’s new 47 !

 

Anyway, I’ll get back down off my high-horse now…..

 

cheers,

Phil.

None taken.

No I get your point - I know class 47s aren’t used on yellow trains , but that was just a generic dig at the one off kinda trains that appear every five minutes at exhibitions . I’ve seen blue 37s here at Bristol on them recently,, but how many 47s would I need for current ops ?what ratio sheds to duffs ?
 

I’d expect it to be 95/5 , I’d need a lot more 66s post 1998 than 47s… that is of course 23 years of dominance.

 

I myself  chuckle when anyone says ….” Most people model….” Or “ more people model “ or, “ more people like oranges than lemons “. Or a more specific version “ I want that class xxx I saw in turquoise and lemon , I’m sure it’d sell “

 

you just can’t know unless you have all the sales figures to hand for the relevant models 

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, GordonC said:

 

The way they've produced Class 150's I just find baffling. The powered bogie looks awful being visible as a dark chunk in the interior when combined with the internal lighting and the price of them is getting harder to justify with RRPs between £295 and £320 for a 2 car unit. With the Class 158s I can almost understand the higher prices with 2 separately powered low profile mechanisms with loads of lighting functions so the complexity is higher.

 

Exactly, it is the price differential between the two models that doesn't make much sense to me. Hence why I'd buy an appropriate 158 (or an appropriate new class 47) at the usual RRP-15%, but I am holding out for a price reduction on the Northern 150.

[brushman47544]

19 hours ago, Mophead45143 said:

I don't think the previous Bachmann model has significant enough issues shape wise, such that they would look odd next to the new one. 

 

For me the main issues are the cab window rivets on the earlier liveries without the headlight and the lack of detail around the bogies, so for me an upgrade is more than welcome. But I agree in terms of general shape I don't expect enough differences for them to look out of place alongside each other.