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Bachmann announce NEW Class 47


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14 minutes ago, The 158 Man said:

I'm surprised they haven't done any more yet, given the cost of the project (cue someone like Harburn commissioning a ltd ed ScotRail one...

 

Maybe this will be one for Model Rail Scotland, there is a precedent?

 

Regards

 

Roddy

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On 17/08/2021 at 21:23, The 158 Man said:

Three posts regarding Bachmann's 158s and 170s out of 23 pages of Class 47 froth. Hardly the worst deviation in history.

 

Mind you, on RMWeb I've seen people shot for less. 

 

So, back to the 47s. Don't they look wonderful! I have a feeling I've said that before..

I do like that "The 158 man" has 158 posts at time of writing. Now if someone is on 47554 postings can they please reply to this to put us firmly back on topic...

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On 12/08/2021 at 09:36, No Decorum said:

Same here. I’m curious about the Heljan one and the Bachmann is a superb model. Whether I get yet another 47 depends on what else is around at the time and there is an awful lot else around at the moment, with even more suddenly appearing out of nowhere. From what is said on here, Bachmann wouldn’t miss my non-purchase of a 47.


To be honest, I feel the same as I’m now being highly selective on the models I want.  I must admit that when I saw Bachmann’s 47828 in IC livery, I nearly blew a fuse as I’d not long seen the prototype in Peterborough a few days earlier, but did I order it, no.  I could have applied rule 1 and said it’s on a rail tour but then I would have to purchase coaching stock and on a layout only 15ft x 1ft, it didn’t make sense.

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20 hours ago, jools1959 said:


To be honest, I feel the same as I’m now being highly selective on the models I want.  I must admit that when I saw Bachmann’s 47828 in IC livery, I nearly blew a fuse as I’d not long seen the prototype in Peterborough a few days earlier, but did I order it, no.  I could have applied rule 1 and said it’s on a rail tour but then I would have to purchase coaching stock and on a layout only 15ft x 1ft, it didn’t make sense.

What about a light engine or ECS move with a couple of Mk1s, or even Mk2Fs?

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3 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

What about a light engine or ECS move with a couple of Mk1s, or even Mk2Fs?


Agreed but the layout I’m building doesn’t really lend itself to single locomotives, it’s basically show casing my 2nd generation DMU’s.

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On 17/08/2021 at 12:17, The Black Hat said:


When was the class 170 cancelled? I don't believe it is. 


Maybe it was just a lot of rumour but:

Reports say that it's "officially paused".
However struggling to find an official source.

 

As for the 47's, I'm not that surprised.

Looking at the standard of models, time to re-tool a definitive version I guess.

Just a shame that it's re-tooling of an already released version instead of producing something new.

Edited by Sir TophamHatt
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7 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Reports say that it's "officially paused".
However struggling to find an official source.

The Turbostars are not "officially paused", they are omitted from the combined volume. So the next time we will hear about them from Bachmann is if and when the Turbostars are announced in a quarterly British Railway Announcement.

 

Post quoting the Bachmann Times:

 

Edited by Paul.Uni
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42 minutes ago, Class 158 productions said:

Probably the fact there have been multiple duffs at a ‘decent’ level for some time. Whereas many areas go untouched, DMUs, EMUs…

 

Follow the money, basically.  A DMU or EMU will always represent a gamble, whereas a steady, repeatable staple product will repay the tooling again and again.

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10 hours ago, 'CHARD said:

 

Follow the money, basically.  A DMU or EMU will always represent a gamble, whereas a steady, repeatable staple product will repay the tooling again and again.

 

But there will come a point where there's already a lot of different Class 47 models to a good standard out there already from Heljan and Bachmann that while the market might not be fully 'satisfied' yet but sales will decline, especially as prices rise further. Its DMU and EMU models now that I'm more likely to place pre-orders for and be excited about them arriving.

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11 hours ago, 'CHARD said:

 

Follow the money, basically.  A DMU or EMU will always represent a gamble, whereas a steady, repeatable staple product will repay the tooling again and again.

 

1 hour ago, GordonC said:

 

But there will come a point where there's already a lot of different Class 47 models to a good standard out there already from Heljan and Bachmann that while the market might not be fully 'satisfied' yet but sales will decline, especially as prices rise further. Its DMU and EMU models now that I'm more likely to place pre-orders for and be excited about them arriving.

 

While I agree with what you say GordonC, my sentiments are the same, I do wonder if the lack of commitment to MUs is that as CHARD says there is a gamble. At the moment I expect the gamble is historically that there is far less data to go off in terms of market size. In fairness to Bachmann though they have done quite a few decent MUs over the years, probably more than anyone in the UK market.

 

The other stumbling block I think is the price, some people seem to think the price of a 2 car MU should be about the same as a single loco. Generally I don't see an issue with the MU prices at the moment, other than I think the 150 is a bit dear given it is old (recently modified but fundamentally old) tooling and not up to the new stuff around the same price but not miles out. The thing is, in my opinion, MUs and class 66s should actually dominate most layouts with absolute realism in mind for stuff based in the last 30 years, so the market should be fairly big. If my list of MUs I want came out I think I would have more MUs than locos.

Edited by TomScrut
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There are some MUs that would be less of a risk - those that can be seen as complimentary to other items in their range, or a field where other complimentary models exist in other company ranges (I've seen comments about why would a company bring out a model to compliment another company model.  I would say why not?  A sale is a sale after all).

In Bachmann's situation, they produced the excellent Kernow 4TC, so why not a 4REP?  That would be no different to them launching the 4BEP and 2HAP to compliment their existing stabiliser rail units.  The other obvious complimentary unit would be a first generation LMR overhead line unit, which would not only compliment their own 85 and 90 but also products from other manufacturers who are selling AC electrics which are unlikely all to be selling as mantelpiece models.  The price of a four car unit will put some off but doesn't seem to stop Bachmann releasing them.  Bachmann will have the market intelligence how things sell, and how markets like overhead electrics are selling, quite independent of the flawed opinions of individual enthusiasts, or some individual retailers, who will always look at such models through personal preferences.  Committing to a "Swiss army knife" set of toolings for a 47 with such a vast sum of money is on the one hand a "no brainer" in that every previous model has had flaws, but by the same token is a risk because there are so many models out there which some may be happy with.  I would suggest the level of risk for Bachmann is no better or worse than for an EMU, just different.

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Having been a railway modeller for many years has any one noticed how the hobby has changed from being a hobby to a luxury.

 

having given up on uk main line railway s some time ago and building a layout based on the Isle of Wight I’ve not had to fork out on locos that one minute there brand new and all singing and dancing then a few years later there replaced by the same locomotive that s retooled.

 

then trying to sell the first locomotive that was expensive at the time and getting virtually nothing for it and having to pay well over £100 to replace it with yet another retooled locomotive.

 

only to find out a few years later the same loco has been brought out by another manufacturer that is even better and so the whole process starts again lt all seems to be a bit of a con.

let’s make a locomotive that looks right but in a few  years time we will replace it with one that’s spot on in order to get as much money as possible.

 

not only that other manufacturers are doing the same locos instead of covering locomotives that have not been made yet the class 74 for one ok one livery but still popular.

 

I’m glad I dropped main land railways when I did the island line has not cost me anything for years and I’ve saved a fortune as I see it this situation will go on and on prices will go up and up.

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4 minutes ago, corsair said:

Having been a railway modeller for many years has any one noticed how the hobby has changed from being a hobby to a luxury.

 

having given up on uk main line railway s some time ago and building a layout based on the Isle of Wight I’ve not had to fork out on locos that one minute there brand new and all singing and dancing then a few years later there replaced by the same locomotive that s retooled.

 

then trying to sell the first locomotive that was expensive at the time and getting virtually nothing for it and having to pay well over £100 to replace it with yet another retooled locomotive.

 

only to find out a few years later the same loco has been brought out by another manufacturer that is even better and so the whole process starts again lt all seems to be a bit of a con.

let’s make a locomotive that looks right but in a few  years time we will replace it with one that’s spot on in order to get as much money as possible.

 

not only that other manufacturers are doing the same locos instead of covering locomotives that have not been made yet the class 74 for one ok one livery but still popular.

 

I’m glad I dropped main land railways when I did the island line has not cost me anything for years and I’ve saved a fortune as I see it this situation will go on and on prices will go up and up.

That’s just society at the moment. Look at the technology industry. With the influx of younger people in the hobby, who are used to having new things replace older products regularly it’s not that strange. To many newcomers they are often outraged when you tell them the age of a tooling, despite it being a good model. I agree it’s dangerous, but in the case of the 47, no model has really ever been ‘right’ and with today’s technology, it’s only really proper to do it justice. It will be interesting to see how sustainable this model is, in 5/10 years will we see a newer 47 model? Most likely, unless manufacturers continue to adapt and improve their models. 

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Apologies if the question has already been asked, but is there any reason apart from the domino headcodes (easily changed) why BR blue 47012 would not be suitable from it's TOPS renumbering date onwards ? 

 

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1 hour ago, corsair said:

lt all seems to be a bit of a con.

 

It's just progress, and most importantly it doesn't make what you already have worse. I will have some AS 37s, but I won't be getting rid of my Bachmann ones.

 

1 hour ago, Class 158 productions said:

To many newcomers they are often outraged when you tell them the age of a tooling, despite it being a good model.

 

The age doesn't matter as long as it is good IMO, but some people have opinions on stuff that needs retooling for no particularly good reason (IMO of course), for example I recall somebody suggesting that a better 60 was done although other than the lighting I think it is still one of the best ones out there and (possibly ignorantly) what is there that could be made a lot better on it?

 

OTOH I think that there's quite a few locos that would benefit from a circuit board and lighting redesign to bring them properly into DCC, but other than that there is little wrong with them. Model relevant to me include Bachmann 66, 37 and 70 and Hornby 60 and 67. Two of these have competition and the lighting is probably the biggest gap too.

 

Bachmann do look like they are maybe acting this way though as they have updated the functionality on the 40 whilst tooling Andania.

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The Heljan Hymek is one of these, despite its age (nearly 18 years) there's nothing wrong with its shape or running quality, just that by current standards it's lacking most of those features we expect these days - even sprung buffers. One problem an upgraded model may face is that all of those regular production runs sell really well (depending on livery to some extent) so there are a lot out there already with no shape issues upsetting owners so recouping upgrade investment costs might be tricky. After all this ain't no Class 47 or 66, if you get my drift.....!

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1 hour ago, TomScrut said:

 

It's just progress, and most importantly it doesn't make what you already have worse. I will have some AS 37s, but I won't be getting rid of my Bachmann ones.

 

 

The age doesn't matter as long as it is good IMO, but some people have opinions on stuff that needs retooling for no particularly good reason (IMO of course), for example I recall somebody suggesting that a better 60 was done although other than the lighting I think it is still one of the best ones out there and (possibly ignorantly) what is there that could be made a lot better on it?

 

OTOH I think that there's quite a few locos that would benefit from a circuit board and lighting redesign to bring them properly into DCC, but other than that there is little wrong with them. Model relevant to me include Bachmann 66, 37 and 70 and Hornby 60 and 67. Two of these have competition and the lighting is probably the biggest gap too.

 

Bachmann do look like they are maybe acting this way though as they have updated the functionality on the 40 whilst tooling Andania.

 

Totally agree!

I'm just pondering what to do with the Hornby 67 circuits for independent lighting so that is one area I'd like improving. I have to admit I'd rather see the best efforts of modelling using older models as a base.... otherwise it could get a little dull just seeing the same superb new models on layouts. In the D&E world we're pretty close IMO to having a good base for most locos and its Coaches/DMU/EMUs that could do with catching up.

 

Anyhow one thing I'm noticing is models are starting to develop an options list longer than a German Car manufacture!

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20 minutes ago, dj_crisp said:

I'm just pondering what to do with the Hornby 67 circuits for independent lighting so that is one area I'd like improving.

 

The Bachmann stuff I just modify myself to make independent, as it's easily restore-able, but because Hornby do the common negative on their circuits it complicates matters doesn't it?

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4 hours ago, corsair said:

Having been a railway modeller for many years has any one noticed how the hobby has changed from being a hobby to a luxury.

 

having given up on uk main line railway s some time ago and building a layout based on the Isle of Wight I’ve not had to fork out on locos that one minute there brand new and all singing and dancing then a few years later there replaced by the same locomotive that s retooled.

 

then trying to sell the first locomotive that was expensive at the time and getting virtually nothing for it and having to pay well over £100 to replace it with yet another retooled locomotive.

 

only to find out a few years later the same loco has been brought out by another manufacturer that is even better and so the whole process starts again lt all seems to be a bit of a con.

let’s make a locomotive that looks right but in a few  years time we will replace it with one that’s spot on in order to get as much money as possible.

 

not only that other manufacturers are doing the same locos instead of covering locomotives that have not been made yet the class 74 for one ok one livery but still popular.

 

I’m glad I dropped main land railways when I did the island line has not cost me anything for years and I’ve saved a fortune as I see it this situation will go on and on prices will go up and up.

But you don't have to

 

I have two Brush type 4s, a green one and a blue one, and they were bought whilst there wasn't a lot around that took my fancy. 47s are at the new end of my modelling timeline with plenty of "more important" about to hit the retailers, so doubtful I will buy.  There are plenty of BR/Sulzer type twos on the way, so a 47 will be a low priority for me, and I wouldn't replace my 47s like I am replacing my 24s and 25s. 

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Mmm, I'd venture to suggest model railways have always been a luxury.

Thing is, as others have said, you don't have to upgrade your stock if you are happy with them.  I've just given in to a Bachmann 37 that some of the more zealous fans of the loco claim is inaccurate, should be re-tooled, etc.  To me, it looks like a 37 and was in a livery/name combo that had resonance with me so, despite having an Accurascale model on pre order (for an earlier livery) I was happy to pick it up.  In fact the only locos I've replaced with improved RTR examples were my Hornby modified Class 86s which I've gradually replaced with Heljan examples (although I have kept two 86/2s refitted with DCC chassis and modified/backdated to 1975 condition!)

I've put my name down for an Intercity liveried example as it was a gap in my fleet that needed plugging.  I've got my eyes on a couple of Heljan livery options too.  As Bachmann sail through the Heinz 57 livery and detail options, I'll no doubt buy more if and when they appear.

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It’s a brave move them making this - as pointed out there is a lot of credible opposition from Heljan and their own current offering. This has to be right on the money at today’s price point .

 

personally I’d have gone head to head with a new all singing and dancing version of the 66 to take  hattons on , as those machines will be around for a long time and any new entrants to the hobby will need one for the foreseeable future .

Edited by rob D2
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