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4 hours ago, Guy Rixon said:

Shapeways FUD prints seem to be a little more robust that resin prints on my home machine. There are things that I can print at home but they break too easily in service so I don't bother. We'd need to know the minimum feature-sizes for the resin. If it's "no wires or walls thinner than 1 mm", then none of my range is viable. Also, if a print does happen to break during washing, who pays for the replacement?

I am interested in what resin printer you have and what resin? 

https://a360.co/3tGY8OU and https://a360.co/3lQTXze both printed out fine for me and the later with no supports.

How robust do the models need to be? Genuine question :-)

 

here are the prints

C10A9A37-A8C5-4CD2-AFB3-51370AB2B8FD_1_105_c.jpeg.92a094227d1a758ec5d1f4a81f2765fd.jpeg9D2EEB58-763D-4931-8DE7-0B27FF54C7A4_1_105_c.jpeg.71cbbc9dee67b7189429c4da5bf859c5.jpeg

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3 hours ago, Din said:

 

Whoof! Brilliant points. No worry on being picky, I'd like to have these ideas bounced and feedback given so I know what people want who want to try and use my service.

 

If we're going with repeats of the same part, then I don't see why you couldn't put a few on a file as opposed to putting them all into an awkward sprue. The flexibility offered there would be because I'd be using printers similar to your own, just more of them available. If you upload say, a dozen buffers, or a detail pack, then the sensible solution would be you can specify what way you want it printed.

 

For smaller parts that require some toughness, perhaps we could consider tough resins?  Looking about costs-wise we'd be looking at a higher cost per gram, but the trade off is that more reassuring strength. So perhaps those more finicky and smaller parts of your own? We can also tag that one as "at customer's risk" if it's something experimental.

 

Being as resin is toxic when not fully cured, for the safety of myself, Royal Mail and the customer everything will be fully washed and cured before being sent out. A large jewlers sonic bath and big curing machine is on my to-buy list as I am still in the set up and this thread is judging demand, interest and other parts not considered.

 

I will try my best to cut all supports off before sending them out. If this has to change due to sheer demand then I will either let people know beforehand, or pressgang  get some of my friends to come help out as they foolishly kindly offered to assist me during the early days. I could even offer people a slightly cheaper model without that "prep" work meaning the model arrives still on its supports for you to do everything yourself. I beleive this is what Hardy's Hobbies does for the "detail pack" for their models as I have one of their 16" bagnalls

 

As for support generation, my friend and business partner is currently pushing for us to do all of that in-house, however as I know a number of people, especially some of the "pioneers" interested in this thread will have already done that themselves in their own prototyping and printing phase I'll begin pushing for us to also accept g-code as you know it will have been viable on your own machines for personal use, and thus should work fine for printing here. It's also what a lot of third party creators increasingly do when selling their own models for 3d printing, the minatures market especially does this.

 

Now, if a print fails on my end, or breaks during washing, then it will most likely be my fault, and will simply accept it as part of the risks of printing.

 

Customer-wise, if there is disatifaction and a refund then I think we can follow the standard law here, so within 14 days for any reason (distance selling). This will likely mean I'd hold off sending the money on to creators for 2 months so that if sales have to be cancelled and refunded, nobody is effected.

 

 

FWIW you can’t get someone to send Gcode on resin printers, the file outputs of a sliced file include all the resin parameters and are specific to each type of machine, so a file sliced for a Mars 2 won’t work on a Mars 3 or whatever. With the new Chitubox version even the firmware on the machine matters. You can save a supported file as an STL, which would obviously work - this is how stuff can be purchased ‘pre-supported’. 
 

Removing supports on cured models is a hideous process, so you’re absolutely right to be doing that, it’s totally non-negotiable I’d say!

 

Holding onto the money for 2 months feels a tough sell, people moan about eBay taking 2 days. I get you’re avoiding having to ask for money back, but that feels like you’re punishing the creators just in case a purchaser wants a refund. Particularly if you’re just using easily available machines that the designers could buy for a couple of hundred pounds - you need to think what your USP will be here. 

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31 minutes ago, njee20 said:

FWIW you can’t get someone to send Gcode on resin printers, the file outputs of a sliced file include all the resin parameters and are specific to each type of machine, so a file sliced for a Mars 2 won’t work on a Mars 3 or whatever. With the new Chitubox version even the firmware on the machine matters. You can save a supported file as an STL, which would obviously work - this is how stuff can be purchased ‘pre-supported’. 
 

Removing supports on cured models is a hideous process, so you’re absolutely right to be doing that, it’s totally non-negotiable I’d say!

 

Holding onto the money for 2 months feels a tough sell, people moan about eBay taking 2 days. I get you’re avoiding having to ask for money back, but that feels like you’re punishing the creators just in case a purchaser wants a refund. Particularly if you’re just using easily available machines that the designers could buy for a couple of hundred pounds - you need to think what your USP will be here. 

 

That is a good point I had misunderstood on that part, as I am a bit tired at the moment and thinking of a hundred things a minute. I am obviously thinking of the citubox profiles and files often supplied with some fantasy minatures I have to hand and presupported .stl files as opposed to being able to send over gcode because of the underlying settings per machine. You're quite right. I suspect the majority of prints would be via me doing the slicing myself so I can best tweak it.

 

For the rest. I'll take it on board and consider it. I'd rather garuntee designers the money with a delay, than give it and take back.

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Personally, I'd be OK with receiving designer's commission a few months later. It's what happens at SW anyway. To avoid a flock of micro-transactions, they accumulate the designer's cut and pay it once per month, and only when it exceeds $30. For me, that meant I got paid two or three times a year.

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Hey Din, as I say im pretty interested in trying out your site for all my models, let me know when you would be in a position to start getting stuff on, and what needs to be done my end.

 

Cheers

Rob

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  • 2 months later...

dont think its been mentioned but Craftcloud https://craftcloud3d.com/  is like a price comparison site and will find you the cheapest price for your uploaded .stl.  Often there is quite a choice of materials to choose from. I've had a couple of small items done and the quality was fine. But I quickly realised it'd be much cheaper in the long run to get my own printer.

 

Edited by Mark4738
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I have been reading these posts and 3D printing looks like it has many possibilities. As someone who intrigued by the possibilities that 3D printing offers, but has no idea how to go about it, are there any tutorials that a complete beginner could use to develop models for eventual printing? I use Inkscape, Sketchup, LibrOffice Draw. What would a would be designer have to send to a printer to achieve a successful print? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. I do not expect anyone to spend time here advising me, just links to suitable sites would be good.

Tony

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Essentially any 3D output file; the various printers will have a slicer which will convert a 3D image into the requisite file type comprising the layers to be printed. STLs are the most common, but not the only acceptable ones. Aren't LibreOffice Draw and Inkscape graphics programs though? They won't be any use. Sketchup is fine, not the most common choice, it was designed as a tool for architects and interior designers IIRC, but it will work if it's what you know.

 

For dimensioned engineering type models (as opposed to organic models like people) I'd say Fusion 360 is probably the most common software, but that's pretty moot if you know how to use something else! Carl White has a YouTube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCO6U0E0fVTEm9RUQMRtKVKQ where he teaches how to create various items in Fusion 360 in a printable format.

 

There are myriad other tutorials for any of the popular software packages. I learned Fusion from Lars Christiensen's tutorials, but it's all personal.

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11 hours ago, T0ny said:

What would a would be designer have to send to a printer to achieve a successful print?

In my experience there are 4 steps in the process 1) create or buy the STL model you want. 2) Run it through 3D builder (free in Windows) to repair and correct any defects in print capability. 3) Load it into slicing software of your choice, position in the build volume and add supports. (That is a dark art that needs to be mastered!) 4) still in the slicing software, set the print parameters for your model, the printer and resin (layer height, exposure time, lift speed etc.etc.) then slice and you have a file which the printer can run with. 

Edited by JimFin
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4 hours ago, JimFin said:

In my experience there are 4 steps in the process 1) create or buy the STL model you want. 2) Run it through 3D builder (free in Windows) to repair and correct any defects in print capability. 3) Load it into slicing software of your choice, position in the build volume and add supports. (That is a dark art that needs to be mastered!) 4) still in the slicing software, set the print parameters for your model, the printer and resin (layer height, exposure time, lift speed etc.etc.) then slice and you have a file which the printer can run with. 

Thank you for the explanation. I can see that I have a lot to learn if I wish to go down this route. Your explanation gives me a starting point and a framework to follow and learn.

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On 13/11/2021 at 08:58, T0ny said:

I use Inkscape, Sketchup, LibrOffice Draw.

 

Hey mate, Sketchup is plenty enough to get stuck in. 

 

As far as free / reasonably priced software goes, I've  dabbled in Fusion360, Solidworks and Blender for creating 3D models but do find myself continually  drifting back to Sketchup. Not sure why - I just find it the most 'fun' to use if that makes any sense.

 

I'm sure that many individual processes are simpler in Fusion etc but overall I like using sketchup most -  its a purely personal thing  but its not just that,  I've yet to come up against something that can't be achieved with it, or using one of the many extensions written for it. 

 

 You DO need extensions to get 3D to work so you'll need either the Pro/workshop paid versions or the still freely available. free 2017 Make, which is what I use.

 

To get started in 3D you just need the solid inspector extension which will allow you to find issues in models that will affect printing (reversed faces, holes in mesh etc) and fix them and the stl export extension and you're good to go.   Nice to haves are some of the fredo ones like push-pull, and any extension that creates a face from a series of lines. They are pretty much all I use.

 

To  show the variety its capable of these are sketchup renders of prints I have ready to go when I get my shed back from using it to build garden landscaping stuff and can get my printers out again.

 

They were all created entirely in sketchup, and are all watertight and ready to print. All 4mm/ft scale, some will be printed in full if they are able to be shoe-horned onto my Elegoo Saturn, others will be printed as individual walls, roofs etc angled to fit on the build plate.  Pre-Saturn I did find it much harder to build decent architectural models on the smaller resin printers without splitting up walls etc, I have more options now.

 

3.jpg.57fd64f9faa467e993cab73d79bba677.jpg

1752096328_XBHardtop5.jpg.b81a1139896904ab93d2cd3bc8b4adb5.jpge.jpg.277f7ce747ea8bd39520daa9cc570d78.jpg

280172467_FreePresbyterianChurchEastMaitland2.jpg.67a6699f0bde2bd9f36c805375587168.jpg1.jpg.a8e9696bf9f27df0c428c992441961a9.jpg

7.jpg.65e6f8bd155d84f092fd5e60dae449bd.jpg

 

I use inkscape and do find it useful. For instance the wrought iron fru fru on this model was created by finding a suitable black and white gif on the net, importing it into Inkscape , using  the convert to path tool then exporting it as a dxf. A really early version of Sketchup (2007) has a dxf importer which was removed from later versions so I used that to import the dxf, save as a sketchup file then into the 2017 version to use push-pull to give it body then resize and attach to model.  

5.jpg.2cd94d08921a9f607423b50bee2f42d5.jpg

 

Edited by monkeysarefun
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 08/11/2021 at 23:46, woko said:

@Din Hello chap, how is your project for a UK Shapeways coming along sir? Any joy?

 

Cheers

 

Rob

 

Hello, sorry for not being about keeping an eye on this topic. I have indeed been busy with life, other matters and indeed this project.

 

So, to update somewhat, I have my machines in, workshop set up nicely, and have been doing various test printings of numerous items. I've sent a few off to my friend to paint up for me and hope to post some pictures thereabouts soon.

 

My friend and business partner in this venture decided he did not like any currently available e-commerce platform to do this site (and other possible future projects) justice so is currently hard at work constructing the necessary software and other site architecture while I handle other parts I can. Quite fun stuff.

 

I've also began eyeing up various printers which are likely to be coming in 2022 with some excitement. (The Rocket 1, if not a scam, changes just about everything within a buildspace not much smaller than the Elegoo Mars 3)

 

I was at the Burton 7mm Narrow gauge AGM as a good friend of mine is a member and got me an extra ticket, so did chat with and make some contacts there including the brilliant Hope Mountain Models who's planning a nice range of 7mm RTR models using 3d printing but currently lacks the facilities to manufacture parts himself.

 

So, because of all of this we're likely to launch a temporary website either during December or within the new year which will have models available to me in the interim (which are largely tabletop figures) while we finalise how shops/storefronts work for individual users.

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17 minutes ago, Din said:

 

Hello, sorry for not being about keeping an eye on this topic. I have indeed been busy with life, other matters and indeed this project.

 

So, to update somewhat, I have my machines in, workshop set up nicely, and have been doing various test printings of numerous items. I've sent a few off to my friend to paint up for me and hope to post some pictures thereabouts soon.

 

My friend and business partner in this venture decided he did not like any currently available e-commerce platform to do this site (and other possible future projects) justice so is currently hard at work constructing the necessary software and other site architecture while I handle other parts I can. Quite fun stuff.

 

I've also began eyeing up various printers which are likely to be coming in 2022 with some excitement. (The Rocket 1, if not a scam, changes just about everything within a buildspace not much smaller than the Elegoo Mars 3)

 

I was at the Burton 7mm Narrow gauge AGM as a good friend of mine is a member and got me an extra ticket, so did chat with and make some contacts there including the brilliant Hope Mountain Models who's planning a nice range of 7mm RTR models using 3d printing but currently lacks the facilities to manufacture parts himself.

 

So, because of all of this we're likely to launch a temporary website either during December or within the new year which will have models available to me in the interim (which are largely tabletop figures) while we finalise how shops/storefronts work for individual users.

This is fantastic News Din, and thanks for the update, as I say i'm actually very keen to potentially upload my stuff to your site should you need more content, I also have a few bits of terrain for bolt action, or buildings for 00gauge railways, that I would also be keen to get out there, however I think this will need larger machines than the ones you have currently listed so may not be appropriate for now

Exciting stuff though and do keep us all posted :)

 

Cheers

 

Rob

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4 minutes ago, woko said:

This is fantastic News Din, and thanks for the update, as I say i'm actually very keen to potentially upload my stuff to your site should you need more content, I also have a few bits of terrain for bolt action, or buildings for 00gauge railways, that I would also be keen to get out there, however I think this will need larger machines than the ones you have currently listed so may not be appropriate for now

Exciting stuff though and do keep us all posted :)

 

Cheers

 

Rob

 

My current purchasing plan for further printers does include a Elegoo Jupiter when they are released to ensure I can print the bigger items without having to slice them down, 278 x 156 x 300 mm on those.

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I definitely think that’s a good move. Whilst people won’t want to buy resin printers for any number of reasons they’re extremely accessible. Having some Jupiter/Sonic Mega 8k printers would be a big step forward, as they bring huge challenges that folk may not want to deal with! The Sonic Mega is usefully bigger than the Jupiter FWIW; you can’t print O gauge 20m rolling stock in a Jupiter. 

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26 minutes ago, njee20 said:

I definitely think that’s a good move. Whilst people won’t want to buy resin printers for any number of reasons they’re extremely accessible. Having some Jupiter/Sonic Mega 8k printers would be a big step forward, as they bring huge challenges that folk may not want to deal with! The Sonic Mega is usefully bigger than the Jupiter FWIW; you can’t print O gauge 20m rolling stock in a Jupiter. 

 

Well I've already decided continous improvement is probably my best route forward rather than sinking too much money into this whole project and it not panning out. I'm also exploring a couple of leads on being able to offer lost-investment casting. I suspect larger and larger machines will become my aim medium term as it simply makes the most sense. A Prusa XL is a very likely purchase and suitable to buildings and some larger scale stuff, but in FDM.

 

I suspect that some 0 gauge stuff may have to come out kit-like in the interim, however. I know of one chap in South Wales who had a decent amount of success using FDM printers this way.

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I'm still waiting for the Prusa XL to come out, its been teased for over a few years now! And would be ideal for some of the terrain projects I have in mind! 

And even though I have finally got my Sonic 8K out of the box and on the bench, I have still yet to give it a go.... shocking I know!

Realistically probably won't be until next year now :( 

Not heard of the 'Rocket 1' that sounds interesting?

 

 

 

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On 23/11/2021 at 18:42, woko said:

I'm still waiting for the Prusa XL to come out, its been teased for over a few years now! And would be ideal for some of the terrain projects I have in mind! 

And even though I have finally got my Sonic 8K out of the box and on the bench, I have still yet to give it a go.... shocking I know!

Realistically probably won't be until next year now :( 

Not heard of the 'Rocket 1' that sounds interesting?

 

 

 

Promo video here. Basically it's flipping the CLIP process upside down (because the patent seemed to specify the orientation) and instead dunks the print in as it creates it.

 

End result, however, is a print speed of initially 280mm/hr and seems to be increasing to 360mm/hr thanks to their colab with Chitubox.

 

I'm keeping an eye on it, as I've never heard of HiTry (despite claiming 30+ years in the 3d printing world, so from the dawn of it basically.) But if this turns out to all be true... well.

 

It'd certainly make smaller orders very easy for me to carry out. 

 

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On 14/11/2021 at 17:17, monkeysarefun said:

 

 

On 14/11/2021 at 17:17, monkeysarefun said:

 

Hey mate, Sketchup is plenty enough to get stuck in. 

 

 

 

Than ks for the reply. Your suggestions re Sketchup and extensions are incredibly helpful and your work gives me inspiration. Now to learn how to do it all!

 

 

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57 minutes ago, T0ny said:

Than ks for the reply. Your suggestions re Sketchup and extensions are incredibly helpful and your work gives me inspiration. Now to learn how to do it all!

 

No worries. There are a few niggles with Sketchups  abilities to handle very small (sub mm) arcs and so on but nothing that you can't work around.

 

The official sketchup youtube channel releases weekly videos, a "square one" series that goes through each tools basics  and how to use it, a more advanced series that gives tips on how to do something a bit complex  in particular, and a 2 to 3 hour 'live' modelling session. This is usually something like a Star Wars thing or similar but although not interested in the actual model I have picked up many tips on how to do some shortcut or complex  step or similar  from watching them. 

 

Any issues,  3d printing  or CAD related just ask on the forum here, someone will know the answer! 

Edited by monkeysarefun
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