NRM loco workshop to close

[sir douglas]

Once Sir Nigel is finished, the NRM York will shut down it workshop to make room for more display space, something they are calling "wonderlab" what i guess will as a display of what workshops are like, which i see as a bit ironic as they are changing a working workshop into a fake one

 

https://www.heritagerailway.co.uk/5866/coming-up-in-issue-247-of-hr-nrm-prepares-to-close-the-works-as-part-of-museum-revamp/

 

https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2021/07/nrm-give-august-move-out-date-for-steam-locomotive-60007-sir-nigel-gresley.html

"New workshop facilities and an improved prep bay facility will be constructed to enable essential locomotive maintenance and repairs to be carried out on site.”

 

the "essential" to me suggest that the new workshop will have a much reduced capacity and capability

 

 

 

[micklner]

More money being wasted ?? . The workshop was always interesting on visits, poor decision.

[peterfgf]

Museum curators are professional curators and know the cost but not the value of the exhibits.  I think this is the latest in the dumbing down of engineering museums.  The last time I was in the NRM (as I continue to think of it) at York there was a distinct lack of explanations about the exhibits.  The curators would be better doing something about what they already have rather than making mischief by shutting down something that is interesting - have they tried explaining to visitors what is going on in the workshop?  I doubt the curators know because they appear to know nothing about industry and engineering.  The great age of knowledgeable curators (Dow etc.) who had once worked in the rail industry has long gone.

Look at what is happening to Museum of Science and industry in Manchester, where they are closing the aerospace gallery and dispersing the exhibits.  Similarly with the Maritime Museum in Greenwich which has become an entertainment centre and the ship model have been put into store.  want to trace the development of ships in Britain? No chance.  None of the museum shops stock any books relevant to their subject.

I think they've lost their way in pursuit of footfall and have forgotten their educational role.

Rant over with (for now).

Peterfgf

[russ p]

Oh I do hope they find room for another cafe and some more royal coaches

[Dava]

By 2025 the NRM will bear little resemblance to the NRM which opened in 1975. Sad to see the end of the engineering workshop capabilities.

 

Dava

[TheSignalEngineer]

2 hours ago, peterfgf said:

I think this is the latest in the dumbing down of engineering museums. 

Just part of the trend in our country where everything is dumbed down to the 'Sun Reader' level and our history sanitized by removing anything that relates to non-PC issues.

(Switch off rant mode before I get into trouble)

[Bucoops]

SNG is leaving before it is finished - it was part of the agreement as the NRM knew they were planning on replacing the current workshop and with access restrictions due to covid progress understandably fell well behind. I hope (really hope) the new workshop is built to allow this kind of work as seeing SNG mid overhaul was a highlight of my last visit.

 

[RichardT]

If you think that any of this decision has anything to do with the curators then you need to find out a lot more about how the Science Museum Group now works. SMG couldn’t give a monkeys about specialist curators and knowledge and has always disliked the fact that its northern museums had established separate identities and specialisms. 
 

When I was there it was a constant battle to hold out for specialist skills and knowledge against the combined forces of South Kensington apparatchiks and the trading company, who simply want the northern outposts to be money-making tourist attractions generating cash to feed the only museum that matters in South Ken.  This is one more sign that this battle has been lost. “Wonderlab”, by the way, is a children’s science playground.

 

Just so sad.

 

Richard T

 

 

 

[RichardT]

1 hour ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

everything is dumbed down to the 'Sun Reader' level and our history sanitized by removing anything that relates to non-PC issues.

(Switch off rant mode before I get into trouble

Not entirely sure what this means, but just to clarify my post above, when I say “specialist (railway) knowledge” I mean both the engineering/conservation skill sets, and also a rigorous historical approach which looks at the railway in its full social, political & economic context, and if that means upsetting enthusiasts and “being PC” then so be it.  As well as preserving artefacts & vehicle it should be examining male/female roles and sexism on the railway; how slavery-derived capital funded the railways; working conditions, immigrants and labour relations;  local elites, commercial and political pressures; etc. The NRM  doesn’t exist to be a memorial to the golden age of steam or a reserve rolling stock supplier to the preservation industry - in fact it should be challenging the very notions of “a golden age” and questioning the picture of railway history that is depicted by heritage railways. But that requires specialist railway curators and conservators valued - and paid - for their expertise, and the Science Museum Group isn’t interested. 

 

RT

[Michael Hodgson]

13 hours ago, RichardT said:

If you think that any of this decision has anything to do with the curators then you need to find out a lot more about how the Science Museum Group now works. SMG couldn’t give a monkeys about specialist curators and knowledge and has always disliked the fact that its northern museums had established separate identities and specialisms. 
 

At least John Jolly at Mangapps Farm took the Signalling exhibits off their hands when South Ken decided that semaphore signalling is so old hat it not only doesn't belong on the railways, it doesn't even belong in a museum.   There are still some people who do care.

[AY Mod]

18 hours ago, peterfgf said:

Museum curators are professional curators and know the cost but not the value of the exhibits. 

 

OK; where's your evidence for this assertion?

 

In my experience curators very much understand wider values; accountants concentrate on the costs.

[TheSignalEngineer]

2 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

.....curators very much understand wider values; accountants concentrate on the costs.

Agreed. Museums are no different from any business these days.

Don't blame dedicated curators down the food chain, what happens in museums is mostly down to the bean counters and their desire to comply with the wishes of their political masters, who after all are the ones who decide whether keep their job or not.

[Bucoops]

2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

At least John Jolly at Mangapps Farm took the Signalling exhibits off their hands when South Ken decided that semaphore signalling is so old hat it not only doesn't belong on the railways, it doesn't even belong in a museum.   There are still some people who do care.

 

I missed "liberating" Haddiscoe Jct box from the SM by a week, I got home from uni and went down to Mangapps and was shown the "loot". Would have loved to have helped out with that one!

 

The sleepers that came out were so varnished you could polish them.

[Johann Marsbar]

O/T, but I'm surprised nobody has made any attempt to get the Glasgow tram that used to be on display at South Kensington and which currently resides in store in a hangar at Wroughton airfield.....

[Michael Hodgson]

3 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

I missed "liberating" Haddiscoe Jct box from the SM by a week, I got home from uni and went down to Mangapps and was shown the "loot". Would have loved to have helped out with that one!

 

As it happens I helped out when a GER box was closed as part of the WARM scheme and it was being relocated to Mangapps. 

It wasn't your pet box though, and it has been relocated again since then, to the Epping & Ongar railway.

[pete_mcfarlane]

On 05/08/2021 at 19:21, peterfgf said:

Look at what is happening to Museum of Science and industry in Manchester, where they are closing the aerospace gallery and dispersing the exhibits. 

That's a real shame, as it was very good. The MSIM seems to be losing everything that made it special. 

[Classsix T]

22 hours ago, RichardT said:

Not entirely sure what this means, but just to clarify my post above, when I say “specialist (railway) knowledge” I mean both the engineering/conservation skill sets, and also a rigorous historical approach which looks at the railway in its full social, political & economic context, and if that means upsetting enthusiasts and “being PC” then so be it.  As well as preserving artefacts & vehicle it should be examining male/female roles and sexism on the railway; how slavery-derived capital funded the railways; working conditions, immigrants and labour relations;  local elites, commercial and political pressures; etc. The NRM  doesn’t exist to be a memorial to the golden age of steam or a reserve rolling stock supplier to the preservation industry - in fact it should be challenging the very notions of “a golden age” and questioning the picture of railway history that is depicted by heritage railways.

 

RT

You're gonna need sodding huge boards (in multiple languages, natch) and lengthy audio files if you think that's the pre-requisite for every single display item. FFS, just have a separate display of "Old rich white dudes suck" and let the actual physical purpose of the exhibit speak for itself.

 

Neil Armstrong going to the Moon was great and everything, but I'm of no delusion he got there atop a mass extinction delivery vehicle.

 

C6T. 

[APOLLO]

What's Neil Armstrong got to do with York museum ?

 

Is 70015 Apollo in there ? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Brit15

[Classsix T]

2 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

What's Neil Armstrong got to do with York museum ?

 

Is 70015 Apollo in there ? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Brit15

In the basement Polly, maybe. 

 

C6T. 

[phil-b259]

On 05/08/2021 at 19:21, peterfgf said:

 

Look at what is happening to Museum of Science and industry in Manchester, where they are closing the aerospace gallery and dispersing the exhibits. 

 

 

Yes but if you read between the lines the REAL problem is the building the collection is housed in needs a massive amount of restoration / repair doing ion it that will take ages and an awful lot of money the museum simply don't have!

 

In some ways its not that dissimilar to the situation the NRM found themselves in at the end of the 1980s where the old York steam shed was suffering from Concrete cancer and getting to the point of being dangerous to visitors, staff and the exhibits therein.

 

The big difference is of course that the NRM obtained funds to demolish (you cannot repair concrete cancer once its got to a certain point) and then rebuild the York site . The exhibits could have all gone into store (and many did) but others were loaned out / displayed in places like the old Swindon works for a year or so while the York site was rebuilt.

 

The MSIM is not so fortunate - Local Government being starved of funds, Covid enforced closures to visitors, and the reluctance of Central Government to fund things properly etc mean there there is no way of doing the same so the MSIM have taken the decision to remove the collection and terminate the lease on the building.  I doubt its something they want to do - but at the same time doing nothing and hoping for a miracle is no way to run a organisation which is supposed to be looking after Heritage interests. 

 

As I understand it none of the exhibits are being sold - they are being put into store so if funding is found to obtain a suitable building then it would be possible to display them once more

 

[phil-b259]

4 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

What's Neil Armstrong got to do with York museum ?

 

Is 70015 Apollo in there ? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Brit15

 

The rocket which took the Apollo mission to the moon was made possible because of the V2 and later on, the ICBM programme. The former was made using slave labour and concentration camp inmates while both were designed as wartime killing machines with the express purpose of killing as many people as possible.

 

As such its a classic case of a good thing being built off the backs of human suffering and evil.

 

The issue with the RM is that many of those who invested in early railways had made their wealth through less than savoury business professions - many of the Bristol merchants who invested in the GWR owed their wealth and status to involvement in the slave trade before it was abolished.

 

So if the NRM is putting on a display about 4472, the rather tongue in check suggestion is that in todays political climate such a display would have to be accompanied by stuff saying how bad it was the railways decimated against women, refused to employ BAEM people, actively encouraged workplace injuries (e.g. hearing loss by no PPE), contributed to the climate emergency, etc....

 

 

[APOLLO]

Perhaps an entry fee is now required, nominal sum, say a fiver for adults, kids / concessions free. 

 

Last time I visited was "The great gathering" and what a superb event / day out that was. 

 

I was going to visit last year but covid stymied that. Going nowhere this year (covid again) so perhaps next year. I will drop a tenner in the box.

 

I agree re the dumbing down, the science museum in London is not what it was. Is Babbages brain still there in a jar of Sarsons best ?

 

Brit15

 

 

[Classsix T]

31 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

The rocket which took the Apollo mission to the moon was made possible because of the V2 and later on, the ICBM programme. The former was made using slave labour and concentration camp inmates while both were designed as wartime killing machines with the express purpose of killing as many people as possible.

 

As such its a classic case of a good thing being built off the backs of human suffering and evil.

 

The issue with the RM is that many of those who invested in early railways had made their wealth through less than savoury business professions - many of the Bristol merchants who invested in the GWR owed their wealth and status to involvement in the slave trade before it was abolished.

 

So if the NRM is putting on a display about 4472, the rather tongue in check suggestion is that in todays political climate such a display would have to be accompanied by stuff saying how bad it was the railways decimated against women, refused to employ BAEM people, actively encouraged workplace injuries (e.g. hearing loss by no PPE), contributed to the climate emergency, etc....

 

 

Thank Phil, I'd hoped my post might have, I dunno, reminded people that often the drive for technology progression is how to efficiently kill large numbers of people. 

My point being wrt RichardT's post, that we don't necessarily need to attach a linked culpability to every instance of a progressive sociatal improvement.

 

C6T. 

[PenrithBeacon]

I wonder if the key to closing the workshop is the question of the value it brings to the museum in comparison with other potential uses the space might bring to it.

A major part of the reason the workshop was created was the thought that it would be useful to teach or instruct museum technical staff in the processes of railway preservation but the Scotsman debacle put that concept to bed.

It will be interesting to see what happens next.

[phil-b259]

40 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I wonder if the key to closing the workshop is the question of the value it brings to the museum in comparison with other potential uses the space might bring to it.

A major part of the reason the workshop was created was the thought that it would be useful to teach or instruct museum technical staff in the processes of railway preservation but the Scotsman debacle put that concept to bed.

It will be interesting to see what happens next.

 

It was mentioned upthread that the space will be turned into a 'Wonderlab' activity space for children.

 

Google search brings up this https://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/see-and-do/wonderlab-equinor-gallery and as York is part of the SMG group it seams that this is what will be coming to the York museum.

 

Now thing is, I was a child I remember when the Science museum in London first opened their 'Launchpad'* section complete with grain moving silo contraption - and absolutely loved it! far more preferable to just reading information boards, etc - in fact it was so successful that a trip to the grain silo is one of the highlights for many adults who attend the museums 'lates'** events so they can relive their childhood....but I digress...

 

I believe that 'Wonderlab' is similar in concept - it exists to engage kids in science and STEM*** subjects thus tying in with school topics and hopefully sowing the seed that will make said kids want to peruse a career in science / engineering later on.

 

Given the chronic shortage of engineers and what might be termed 'technical people' in this country its difficult to be too critical of the concept.

 

* https://blog.sciencemuseum.org.uk/launchpad-throughout-the-ages/

 

** https://www.scienceandmediamuseum.org.uk/whats-on/lates

 

*** https://www.stem.org.uk/

***https://www.lifewire.com/what-is-stem-4150175