NRM loco workshop to close

[Phil Parker]

I wonder if Wonderlab is anything like the Imagineering stand at the last few London Model Engineering shows? Lots of people putting on basic engineering challenges for kids. 

 

As a child, I know I'd have had to have been dragged away as it all looks great fun, but with an educational message in the hands-on activities. 

[Hal Nail]

17 hours ago, AY Mod said:

accountants concentrate on the costs.

Andy, whilst a lot of what you do and say has merit, I will not have you casually bad-mouthing the most noble profession!

 

Finance experts are perfectly capable of looking beyond the value in the numbers.

 

Ps. have you thought about charging a membership fee for RMWeb? We could make a fortune

Edited August 7, 2021 by Hal Nail

[amwells]

3 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

Lots of people putting on basic engineering challenges for kids. 

Having visited a few museums with the kids this summer, this is the real challenge.
 

Something that could be wonderful often needs the ‘people’ who know what they are doing to make it interesting and interactive. At first, they’re there. Later, the place for excitement becomes a room with some random objects around it that nobody quite understands what to do with (least if all the uninformed parent like me!), and we wander on through having not been captured as we should have been. 

[Trevellan]

1 hour ago, Hal Nail said:

Andy, whilst a lot of what you do and say has merit, I will not have you casually bad-mouthing the most noble profession!

 

Finance experts are perfectly capable of looking beyond the value in the numbers.

 

Ps. have you thought about charging a membership fee for RMWeb? We could make a fortune

 

In a career spanning 50 years, latterly in senior positions, I have met only one finance expert who had any degree of imagination and understanding of wider issues.

 

Perhaps I was unlucky...   

[Hal Nail]

3 minutes ago, Trevellan said:

 

In a career spanning 50 years, latterly in senior positions, I have met only one finance expert who had any degree of imagination and understanding of wider issues.

 

When did we meet?

Anyway I blame subconscious bias - maybe i should start a me too movement for bean counters.

 

[Phil Parker]

2 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

Andy, whilst a lot of what you do and say has merit, I will not have you casually bad-mouthing the most noble profession!

 

Finance experts are perfectly capable of looking beyond the value in the numbers.

 

How is this bad mouthing anyone? Looking after the numbers is vital. Leave the NRM in purely enthusiasts hands and they would burn through the budget in a month and the whole lot would have to be sold off to pay the debts. 

 

Successful preserved railway lines are ones who can balance the books by attracting income, even if this means Thomas days or other populist events. Running a national museum means doing this and keeping footfall up to satisfy the politicians as well. 

[Hal Nail]

27 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

How is this bad mouthing anyone? 

It was just a joke, no offence intended!

[AY Mod]

3 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

I will not have you casually bad-mouthing the most noble profession!

 

I'm casting a stone in a glass house having spent uni years in the subject. 

 

3 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

Ps. have you thought about charging a membership fee for RMWeb? We could make a fortune

 

We do have a chargeable membership through which a lot of people help support the running costs of the site but, rest assured, no fortune is made. 

[woodenhead]

29 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

We do have a chargeable membership through which a lot of people help support the running costs of the site but, rest assured, no fortune is made. 

[AY Mod]

Anything to get away from you lot some days! 

[tomparryharry]

I think we touched on this very subject a week ago. The  largest  missing item is 'continuity'.  How do you take it from raw materials, such as coal & iron, through to  the finished product?  What is the timeline  & context?

 

Social Impact?  In a VERY H&S, and litigious society?  Knowledge isn't dumbed down, but the access to that very knowledge is being closed off. 

 

Perhaps one answer is to put all of the knowledge (and I mean ALL of the knowledge ) into a retrievable format, before the knowledge is lost. People visiting the NRM can view audio-visual artefacts on the entire (once again, ENTIRE ) process. 

 

Apart from the tight-knit community of railway people, , who has ever seen a Gibson ring being fitted, or a cylinder being cast in a foundry?  Sure, it does get done in the   UK, but would you be allowed to witness it?  Not bl**dy likely...

 

Swindon Museum breaks my heart. There is a display from the foundry, but about 95% of the parts that go into a foundry are missing.  How can you convey the real experience, such as it can make an indelible mark on the visitor?

 

I know, I'll ask the Burtons dummy over here, he's all togged up for the job... "Excuse me, what sort of temperature are you using to pour that mould?  Pardon? I can't hear you..."

 

Once the skills have gone, there is knowledge which, sad to say, disappears at an ever faster rate. 

 

By way of apology to Mr. Coulls and his team, If I have ever written about this subject in a negative tone (which I have) then  I apologise without reservation.  

 

Depressed rant over...

[tomparryharry]

45 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

I'm casting a stone in a glass house having spent uni years in the subject. 

 

 

We do have a chargeable membership through which a lot of people help support the running costs of the site but, rest assured, no fortune is made. 

 

Perhaps you need a swear box....

[PenrithBeacon]

10 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

...

Given the chronic shortage of engineers and what might be termed 'technical people' in this country its difficult to be too critical of the concept.

...

Interesting! While I'm not critical of the concept I do think it's current implementation is overrated.

The last time I went to the Science Museum the  noise levels where those of a particularly noisy school playground. It was very off-putting and I haven't been back.

The concept was introduced at South Kensington when my children where small. I found that they were much more interested in twiddling the knobs than they were in reading the captions, but I found that they didn't learn from the new displays at all, probably because of the unstructured way they were presented. They did learn from the occasional TV programme though. 

Not a fan.

Edited August 7, 2021 by PenrithBeacon

[APOLLO]

The NRM needs to install one of these for anyone with an axe to grind !!!!!

 

50p a go, bring your own bandages !!!!!

 

[Phil Parker]

1 hour ago, tomparryharry said:

I know, I'll ask the Burtons dummy over here, he's all togged up for the job... "Excuse me, what sort of temperature are you using to pour that mould?

 

Your "Burtons dummy" is someone whose job it is to explain stuff for the average member of the public, not a time served engineer able to teach visitors how to build an engine. You could have such a person, but they would want much higher wages than the "dummy" and for a publicly funded museum, that cash has to come from somewhere. How much extra tax are you willing to pay?

 

As an aside, Sidley Holloway from the current underground TV programme is in charge of those "dummies" for the LT museum, and from the feedback on here, she seems to be doing a good job.

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, PenrithBeacon said:

Interesting! While I'm not critical of the concept I do think it's current implementation is overrated.

The last time I went to the Science Museum the  noise levels where those of a particularly noisy school playground. It was very off-putting and I haven't been back.

The concept was introduced at South Kensington when my children where small. I found that they were much more interested in twiddling the knobs than they were in reading the captions, but I found that they didn't learn from the new displays at all, probably because of the unstructured way they were presented. They did learn from the occasional TV programme though. 

Not a fan.

 

Pretty much my thoughts. I think that social history is far better dealt with by documentaries and suchlike, either on TV or the internet.

 

I don't want to go to a museum to learn about social history. If I do, there are museums of rural life etc. which cover such things very well.

 

From a railway museum I want to learn about engineering, how railways were built, how they worked and what they used to look like.

 

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by t-b-g
delete a bit

[Phil Parker]

1 hour ago, PenrithBeacon said:

The concept was introduced at South Kensington when my children where small. I found that they were much more interested in twiddling the knobs than they were in reading the captions, but I found that they didn't learn from the new displays at all, probably because of the unstructured way they were presented.

 

Perhaps if parents taking their spawn took an active role in the day by encouraging the nippers to read and comprehend all the captions and not just treat the place like a playground, museums would be more pleasant places for grownups.

 

Look out for "The Workhouse Experience" and "Seen and not heard" gallery coming to any museum I get left in charge of... :-)

[pete_mcfarlane]

12 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

Google search brings up this https://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/see-and-do/wonderlab-equinor-gallery and as York is part of the SMG group it seams that this is what will be coming to the York museum.

And note that there's an admission charge. 

[tomparryharry]

29 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Your "Burtons dummy" 

 I really do mean a Burtons Dummy. 

[tomparryharry]

34 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

Pretty much my thoughts. I think that social history is far better dealt with by documentaries and suchlike, either on TV or the internet.

 

I don't want to go to a museum to learn about social history. If I do, there are museums of rural life etc. which cover such things very well.

 

From a railway museum I want to learn about engineering, how railways were built, how they worked and what they used to look like.

 

 

 That's 'sort of' where I was headed, but I think you've written that better than me. 

[Rivercider]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

 

Pretty much my thoughts. I think that social history is far better dealt with by documentaries and suchlike, either on TV or the internet.

 

I don't want to go to a museum to learn about social history. If I do, there are museums of rural life etc. which cover such things very well.

 

From a railway museum I want to learn about engineering, how railways were built, how they worked and what they used to look like.

 

 

I would take the opposite view, in that I do want to learn about the social impact of railways when I am visiting a railway museum. It does not need to be covered with every caption or display board, but it is quite possible to reference the role of navvies, women on the railways, (or whatever) in certain relevant places.

In fact I find that sort of thing interesting in every museum or heritage centre I visit, whatever the main subject.

 

I have only made one visit to the NRM in recent years, I enjoyed the visit, the most interesting bits to me were the quieter areas which the general public seemed to find the least interesting, 

 

cheers

[PenrithBeacon]

I think that engineering is best taught in schools using the BTEC courses with site visits to museums being used in support of the curriculum. Before the BTEC years perhaps it could be touched on during history lessons as part of the industrial revolution.

The point is that the sort of engineering seen in museums is very much historic while engineering students will be looking to the future. I know that this isn't universally true but it is largely true.

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

I don't want to go to a museum to learn about social history. If I do, there are museums of rural life etc. which cover such things very well.

 

From a railway museum I want to learn about engineering, how railways were built, how they worked and what they used to look like.

 

But surely they can cover both? As you point out, there are other museums which do. Anyway, depending on how it is defined ‘how they worked’ is partly social history.

 

One place that I thought (when I visited) covers the social history of railways well is the Museum of Rail Travel at Ingrow, though this is probably partly because of its focus on railway carriages.

 

In theory, a good museum would show the complete picture and the intersection of technical and social history, but since the NRM is part of the Science Museum Group then perhaps it is supposed to have more of a focus on STEM education.

 

I do like the NRM’s Royal Train exhibit and I can’t really think where else these vehicles could be preserved and displayed, if not at the NRM. On the other hand, I can’t entirely see how displaying all of the Royal carriages from different eras simultaneously (as opposed to, for instance, having a representative example that is swapped over occasionally) is particularly helpful for learning about the social or technical history of railways.

 

If you wanted to use a specific “type” of train as a case study to show changes over time then in some ways it could actually be more interesting to have representative examples of ordinary commuter trains (I’m thinking these would probably be individual carriages rather than a whole EMU or complete loco-hauled train though, given likely space constraints). This would allow you to explore various social and technological aspects of railway history (and, crucially, how social and technological factors influenced each other), e.g. faster long-distance travel being made possible by railways, electrification and the technology behind it, the concept of ‘suburbs’ around major cities, changes to signalling, rolling stock design etc. This could be relatable for a lot of visitors and the stock involved would demonstrate more change over time than the Royal Train vehicles.

Edited August 7, 2021 by 009 micro modeller

[APOLLO]

A few years ago whilst having a day out in Bristol from the Forest of Dean we visited Brunel's iron ship, the SS Great Britain. Whilst I thought at the time a little expensive, it was an enjoyable visit and I thought the semi restoration etc very well done. Whilst onboard a young man dressed as Brunel came across and talked to us - not a gimmick as I first thought the guy was interesting, enthusiastic and knowledgeable.. Perhaps the sort of thing the NRM could do - plenty Geordies just up the road - Why aye man, !!!!

 

Brit15

[Michael Hodgson]

2 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

 I really do mean a Burtons Dummy. 

Burtons the fifty bob Tailor got taken over by Arcadia, which in turn went for a Burton last year.

I think the receivers sold the brand name to BooHoo.  Don't know if they took the dummies too.