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The slow death of renumbering/repainting?


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1 hour ago, MarkSG said:

 

I suspect that the comment you are replying to was somewhat tongue in cheek.

Partly

But I get annoyed with comments that suggest doing certain things has more modelling kudos than others.

 

Just do what you want and don't look down on those that think differently.

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I am not adverse to a bit of renumbering. However as locos get more and more detailed I can be reluctant. The reason is the latest models such as the upcoming Accurascale 37s and Bachmann 47s have so much detail that it can restrict the number of options that the number can be changed to. Even the current Bachmann 37 has this problem. So if I renumber a loco I want to make sure that there are no other changes needed. Sometimes it those changes that might discourage me from renumbering.

 

For those attempting a simple renumbering another obstacle can be how easy the original numbers are to remove. In general I find Bachmann easy to remove numbers from, Hornby a little bit harder but still pretty easy. Vitrains are quite difficult for example. 

 

When I first started in the hobby renumbering was one of the first bits of modelling I tried, it is a slippery slope but there is great satisfaction in doing it and having something unique. 

 

Your advice of using old models to practice on is very good. Transfers for the numbers are very cheap and there is plenty of advice and demos on the web. I would encourage everyone to give it a go.

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In the past couple of years I have done more renumbering than in the previous 30 - mainly because lockdown meant that I finally got a bit of production line going on the projects pile. However I exclusively work on secondhand/damaged items because anything in factory condition is relatively easy to sell 'as is' for money to buy greater quantities of damaged stuff; and I must admit I don't modify the modern high price superdetail stuff. So my projects 'fill the gaps'. I've also been working on weathering skills as so much RTR weathering (not all - but quite a bit) is rather sub-par - grimy frames and clean roofs, no recognition of where the dirt accumulates etc). Here's an example (modelled from a real photo), the base model was a old Bachmann 25 reconstituted from parts. Yes, it has the faults of the older Bachmann moulding such as triangular plate standing proud but I'm still pleased with it:
 

IMG_20210725_115911.jpg

Edited by andyman7
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42 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Partly

But I get annoyed with comments that suggest doing certain things has more modelling kudos than others.

 

Just do what you want and don't look down on those that think differently.

 

I would agree that such things always seem to come down to what one does with ones locomotive and rolling stock.

Buying in of track and scenics, buildings, even these days it seems pre cut baseboards are all seen as being OK to do, but one must do the trains up nice by oneself.

I am never sure where that sort of idea comes from.

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I've done and do a lot a hell of a lot of commission work for a select band of clients and they've mostly come from recommendations - from @gwrrob and others.

 

Renumbering and repainting is still very alive and kicking - just some people are very much blinkered and in denial about it.

 

I visited a client on the West Sussex coast today to deliver some completed stock and to see his newly completed layout.

 

engineShed_01.jpg.44c8c5d1b7705d8402e7fdac47b4c4cd.jpg

 

All the loco's, rolling stock, engine shed, sand house , plate layers hut and water cranes in the photo are my work - and that is just the tip of a Titanic sized Iceberg.

 

 

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I suppose it was needs must.

 

I grew up in the 1970 and 1980s when if you wanted more than one Pannier or Class 47 then you had to renumber it yourself as nobody else was going to do it. They had the same names and numbers for years. If you were very brave then you repainted it as they usually didn't do the livery you wanted. Many were awful bright monstrosities such as red Black Fives!

 

Quickest renaming was LNER B17 Manchester United on Christmas morning. I wasn't having the name of the bitter rivals on my model. :bad:

 

Soon became a lovely Liverpool :D Thankfully they provided a few names to apply in the packet. Replaced not long after with etched plates from CGW (I think). Still got it somewhere, eventually I'll get a modern version.

 

But I can see where some people are coming from. Do you really want to mess around with models costing £200? Especially when many now see them as an investment rather than as a model. There now seems to be an idea that you paid X amount and if you touch them they lose their monetary value.

 

 

Jason

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As well as instant gratification there’s also the situation of more modellers coming into the hobby later in life, rather than as impecunious school children.  They may have a consequent reluctance to spend what precious time is left on developing skills, instead preferring to accept what the trade supplies in the interests of getting a layout completed (especially if later-life entrants are cash-rich as well as time-poor.)

 

Richard

 

 

Edited by RichardT
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5 hours ago, rob D2 said:

I’m currently half way through first full respray . I’m not really enjoying it - it’s time consuming , requires a lot of concentration and I’m not sure the outcome will be that great .

 

IF the manufacturers had made the 47 I wanted , I wouldn’t have bothered.


Right, but even though the result may not be as great as you might wish for, you will undoubtedly have learned something toward acquiring and perfecting the relevant techniques along the way.  And you may very likely gain more pleasure over time from observing your perhaps less-than-perfect repaint than from simply plonking that flawless RTR example out-of-the-box on the track.  There's a lot of satisfaction to be gained from learning along the way.  All of which may inspire you to work on a second model later on, and so forth... 

 

All part of the fun/learning curve...  :)

 

Al

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36 minutes ago, YesTor said:


Right, but even though the result may not be as great as you might wish for, you will undoubtedly have learned something toward acquiring and perfecting the relevant techniques along the way.  And you may very likely gain more pleasure over time from observing your perhaps less-than-perfect repaint than from simply plonking that flawless RTR example out-of-the-box on the track.  There's a lot of satisfaction to be gained from learning along the way.  All of which may inspire you to work on a second model later on, and so forth... 

 

All part of the fun/learning curve...  :)

 

Al

Echoed. My first forays back into the hobby last year were a couple of 86s, one executive, one blue. The former took a couple of attempts, but is passable. The second one got better. Now I do a fresh loco every couple of months, and they get better each time. I do buy the modern RTR locos, but most of my fleet has been modified and resprayed in some way. Gradually I switched to enamel paints from acrylics as confidence grew. Narrow orange stripes are still a challenge.

I have been pondering the new Bachmann class 47, but then there are currently 2 ViTrains 47s on ebay, both needing work. One £65 and one £75. The potential for 2 high spec models with money to spare.

 

But, there has been a decline in the number of people working on locos as the fancier models are made available. When I was a kid, there were many detailing packs and accessories available from the likes of Craftsman, A1 and the like. Now you have the excellent Shawplan, but not many other suppliers. Things like RCH jumpers are a rare beast to get hold of for instance, But there are ways around that with a little patience and a few cock ups along the way.

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4 hours ago, YesTor said:


Right, but even though the result may not be as great as you might wish for, you will undoubtedly have learned something toward acquiring and perfecting the relevant techniques along the way.  And you may very likely gain more pleasure over time from observing your perhaps less-than-perfect repaint than from simply plonking that flawless RTR example out-of-the-box on the track.  There's a lot of satisfaction to be gained from learning along the way.  All of which may inspire you to work on a second model later on, and so forth... 

 

All part of the fun/learning curve...  :)

 

Al

I enjoy your enthusiastic view - but hell no , I’m not doing any more. This isn’t part of a training scheme for me.

maybe my view has changed , maybe I’ve changed ( I now work on the railways , rather than it just being a hobby ),

but the realisation in lockdown was, stuff I used to enjoy I didn’t anymore coupled with increased age and lack of patience .

 

I absolutely love seeing what squirrel rail and other professional resprayers come up with , but even if I practiced a lot and got reasonably good, it’s too time consuming for me .

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The problem now is that people are more time poor than before.

 

As youngsters we had the time to knock about that cheap loco ( that wasn't  that cheap in real terms), but now we have lots of other stuff competing for our attention  and the models get second place. 

 

I am not averse to the odd renumber here and there, but the last one has been waiting nearly 4 years to complete. I've just had too much else on. 

 

Of course the other fear is that it all goes wrong ( varnish blooms et al) which will involve far more work than I am prepared to put in. 

 

Now give me a wagon project and that might get done quicker. It can always sit in a siding looking sorry for itself if it goes belly up. 

 

Locos are very expensive siding ornaments 

 

Andy

Edited by SM42
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Well, I’ve just snapped up the £75 Vitrains 47 off Ebay and it will end up as this (after it had been repaired of course). https://www.railexpress.co.uk/1986/fate-or-coincidence/

 

The loco, 47299  has an interesting story, and I will be attempting the orange lines. Typically a detail/respray happens over 4-6 weeks in spare time when I’m working, though the Railfreight class 20 that I recently posted on my thread was done over 2 weeks’ leave.

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2 hours ago, rob D2 said:

This isn’t part of a training scheme for me.

Nail on head, and more succinctly than my post.  
 

There is, or was, a way of looking at the hobby as a virtuous training apprenticeship where you’d start in your teens and twenties on developing skills and abilities through practice & cock-ups, so that by your forties and fifties you’d be an omni-competent experienced modeller and modifier.

 

Not sure that now has much relevance to how the modern hobby actually works, and the demographics of those entering it.  “Time poor” is both a result of too many other things on people’s plates, and also a consciousness of how much active life you’ve got left on this earth. 

 

It takes a while to get a complete model railway up and running so you have to think where you want to spend that time for the most enjoyment.  
 

And, of course, money is a tool which can, to some extent, create extra time. Hence how much of the work we now outsource (cutting wood for baseboards, painting and renumbering, building track & points.) The old jibe about “chequebook modelling” doesn’t have as much force now.

 

RT

Edited by RichardT
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1 hour ago, SM42 said:

The problem now is that people are more time poor than before.

 

As youngsters we had the time to knock about that cheap loco ( that wasn't  that cheap in real terms), but now we have lots of other stuff competing for our attention  and the models get second place. 

 

I am not averse to the odd renumber here and there, but the last one has been waiting nearly 4 years to complete. I've just had too much else on. 

 

Of course the other fear is that it all goes wrong ( varnish blooms et al) which will involve far more work than I am prepared to put in. 

 

Now give me a wagon project and that might get done quicker. It can always sit in a siding looking sorry for itself if it goes belly up. 

 

Locos are very expensive siding ornaments 

 

Andy

There always will be other things grabbing our time away from how we want to spend it, however a lot of people here seem to spend hours at a time moaning about the latest release not being in a certain livery at a certain time, or doesn't have a very easily added detail/modification, rather than learning how to do modifications/repainting/renumbering.  The most recent (and ridiculous) is someone calling for the Hornby HST to be retooled by Accurascale because the couplings on the power cars aren't close enough.

 

 

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11 hours ago, BR Blue said:

I am not adverse to a bit of renumbering. However as locos get more and more detailed I can be reluctant. The reason is the latest models such as the upcoming Accurascale 37s and Bachmann 47s have so much detail that it can restrict the number of options that the number can be changed to. Even the current Bachmann 37 has this problem. So if I renumber a loco I want to make sure that there are no other changes needed. Sometimes it those changes that might discourage me from renumbering.

 

 

 

Thats how I feel too. With some locos (usually steam) its been fairly easy to work out what numbers are suitable candidates to renumbering, but its not knowing that holds me back - especially when I dont have the required extensive library to carry out the research. 

 

It would be really useful if someone were to produce a list of potential alternates (with dates) for new releases.

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I’m gradually modifying, renumbering and weathering my 00 locos into ones that mean something to me eg 40062 which was my last class 40 and has distinctive ends (if you know about such things).  What tends to put me off is the risk of spoiling the excellent factory finish on some of the newer models, particulaly getting the old numbers off and applying gloss varnish to the area where the number goes.  I’m quite happy to repaint a loco if it all goes wrong, but having to dismantle and (worse) reassemble the loco to repaint the body is not something I am good at. Fortunatly, a little weathering can hide and small mistakes while renumbering.

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It rather upsets me to read that because I don't possess certain skills and don't have the time/inclination/wherewithal or whatever to learn them that I may be considered not to be a modeller.

There is a very easy way to get over this - though I appreciate it's not within everyone's grasp - and that  is to join a club.  Were were only talking last night at Hull MRS about the sharing of skills.  A new person came to visit and see what we were doing , hopefully with a view to joining.  One of our group was relaying some track, two were rewiring some of the electrics and I was doing some touching up of the scenery.  Of the others, we demonstrated how one has done the lighting, one is working on point rodding in the scenic area, one made the trees and one has gone through every item of rolling stock checking the wheels and replacing where necessary.  We are all modellers, we pool our skills to make a better layout than any one of us may have built. 

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It all comes down to what you want to get out of the hobby. If you just want a model of 60035 as it was in September 1955 and all you want is to be able to enjoy seeing it on your layout and incorporating it into your operating sequences then, yes, spending years accumulating the skills to build/detail/repaint a model to achieve this will quite rightly be seen as a chore.

 

However others such as me are only in the hobby for the pleasure of making stuff. For instance I started modelling the industrial scene in EM many years ago, partly because there was next to nothing available, but now there are a number of excellent RTR industrials. Have I bought any? No - because it would deny me the pleasure of making them. This is one of the fundamental dichotomies that exist within our hobby and as long as we all understand each other we'll be fine. To answer the original question - Yes, some of us will always want to take a perfectly good model and cut it to bits but we will become more of a minority as the manufacturers slowly remove the necessity to do it.

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12 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Quickest renaming was LNER B17 Manchester United on Christmas morning. I wasn't having the name of the bitter rivals on my model. :bad:

 

Soon became a lovely Liverpool :D Thankfully they provided a few names to apply in the packet. Replaced not long after with etched plates from CGW (I think). Still got it somewhere, eventually I'll get a modern version.

 

 

YNWA Jason

The most compelling argument for renaming I have ever seen. I would have done exactly the same. :)

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A lot of the skills involved in modifying/repainting are transferable too, my partner damaged one of her late mothers ornaments and was quite distraught.  I was able to fix the ornament by adding small amounts of filler, mixing and touching up small amounts of paint and applying a new varnish to blend it all in.  Its not perfect but its better than being consigned to the back of a cupboard

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It's quite a while since I actually did anything that can be called modelling, but when I had a batch of six Heljan 47s in BR blue I ended up renumbering all of them several times, covering all seventeen of the original batch of Western Region 'namers'. Lots of fun tracking down photos for the exact period I'd chosen (almost to the month as daft as it sounds!), not to mention repainting the nameplates in some cases as some went from black to red and back to black again in the space of just a few years. Before any of them were renumbered though, I repainted the bodies (but not the yellow ends) because I didn't like the shade of blue or the actual finish as they came out of the box, I went through several tins of Humbrol rail blue to get the look I was after, the Humbrol paint being a good base to take the weathering I gave them all afterwards. In a couple of cases I overpainted the translucent roof hatches as some of these were painted this way in the factory at Old Oak, probably by mistake and in any case the paint wore off quite quickly....

 

542617191_MODNORTHSTARHJ4mm.jpg.9e18bcbe04e8ec207ee27668acdace71.jpg

Edited by Rugd1022
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1 hour ago, Rugd1022 said:

It's quite a while since I actually did anything that can be called modelling, but when I had a batch of six Heljan 47s in BR blue I ended up renumbering all of them several times, covering all seventeen of the original batch of Western Region 'namers'. Lots of fun tracking down photos for the exact period I'd chosen (almost to the month as daft as it sounds!), not to mention repainting the nameplates in some cases as some went from black to red and back to black again in the space of just a few years. Before any of them were renumbered though, I repainted the bodies (but not the yellow ends) because I didn't like the shade of blue or the actual finish as they came out of the box, I went through several tins of Humbrol rail blue to get the look I was after, the Humbrol paint being a good base to take the weathering I gave them all afterwards. In a couple of cases I overpainted the translucent roof hatches as some of these were painted this way in the factory at Old Oak, probably by mistake and in any case the paint wore off quite quickly....

 

542617191_MODNORTHSTARHJ4mm.jpg.9e18bcbe04e8ec207ee27668acdace71.jpg

Super nice finish on that one ! I’d considered North Star but did GJ churchward instead .

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2 hours ago, Barclay said:

It all comes down to what you want to get out of the hobby. If you just want a model of 60035 as it was in September 1955 and all you want is to be able to enjoy seeing it on your layout and incorporating it into your operating sequences then, yes, spending years accumulating the skills to build/detail/repaint a model to achieve this will quite rightly be seen as a chore.

 

However others such as me are only in the hobby for the pleasure of making stuff. For instance I started modelling the industrial scene in EM many years ago, partly because there was next to nothing available, but now there are a number of excellent RTR industrials. Have I bought any? No - because it would deny me the pleasure of making them. This is one of the fundamental dichotomies that exist within our hobby and as long as we all understand each other we'll be fine. To answer the original question - Yes, some of us will always want to take a perfectly good model and cut it to bits but we will become more of a minority as the manufacturers slowly remove the necessity to do it.

 

It's a double edged sword.

When a manufacturer brings out 60035 in September 1955 condition, no doubt there'll be a cry of "why haven't you done it in October 1955 condition?"

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4 hours ago, 97406 said:

The loco, 47299  has an interesting story, and I will be attempting the orange lines. 

 

Veering slightly off at a tangent, on my club's 'Shirebeck' EM layout, I had repainted a Lima model as 47216 and another member had 47299. We'd occasionally park them up next to each other and see if anyone noticed... ;)

 

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