The slow death of renumbering/repainting?

[rob D2]

2 minutes ago, CloggyDog said:

 

Veering slightly off at a tangent, on my club's 'Shirebeck' EM layout, I had repainted a Lima model as 47216 and another member had 47299. We'd occasionally park them up next to each other and see if anyone noticed...

 

Absolutely loved that layout. Very inspirational for BR blue.

 

In some ways I long to go back to my earlier days of second time round modelling ....1998 ish. £39.99 for any Lima, in any colour . Buy loads, build a fleet, mess about with them a bit in terms of detailing .

 

Now I look at my Bachmann 37s and think “ doesn’t look right , doesn’t look heavy , don’t like the windows “, times were much simpler when I knew less about the prototype !

[D9020 Nimbus]

Given that the OP seems to model (mostly) fictitious locations, I can't help wondering why he's so concerned about the numbers of the locomotives …

 

Would anybody class Tony Wright as being "not a real modeller"? Yet I seem to recall that he didn't paint the many locos he built, but instead had them painted by Stephen Barnfield. It's not uncommon for modellers to avoid parts of the job that they don't like and outsource them to friends or to people who specialise in doing them.

[Reorte]

Being worried about messing up an expensive model is understandable, but there's often a heap of broken locos and bodies and so on for sale at exhibitions (hope they're back some day!) for next to nothing. You might not have a use for them on your layout, but they're ideal for practice - renumbering, weathering, you name it, doesn't matter if you completely trash them.

[97406]

16 hours ago, RichardT said:

As well as instant gratification there’s also the situation of more modellers coming into the hobby later in life, rather than as impecunious school children.  They may have a consequent reluctance to spend what precious time is left on developing skills, instead preferring to accept what the trade supplies in the interests of getting a layout completed (especially if later-life entrants are cash-rich as well as time-poor.)

 

Richard

 

 

I used to detail and repaint models as a kid, and came back into the fold last year in my early fifties. So in a way I picked up where I left off. I really fancied the new Bachmann 47, but it’s expensive and even I feel a bit loathed to even just weather it. I ended up getting both of the 2 ViTrains 47s off Ebay, total cost £140. They will look just as good as the Bachmann one, just without all the bells, whistles and gimmicks.

 

You get a lot of old blokes in sheds fettling lawnmower engines, or whatever. A lot of us are just the same but with model locos. But one should do what one’s happy with. The great thing about the hobby these days is you can get top quality models straight out of the box without all the effort. And I do have a fair few of those as well.

[97406]

20 minutes ago, Reorte said:

Being worried about messing up an expensive model is understandable, but there's often a heap of broken locos and bodies and so on for sale at exhibitions (hope they're back some day!) for next to nothing. You might not have a use for them on your layout, but they're ideal for practice - renumbering, weathering, you name it, doesn't matter if you completely trash them.

Ebay’s a good place. I don’t have any, but the Lima 47 looks a good one to fettle your skills on. The noses and cab windows need a little work, but a good cheap model can result.

[newbryford]

41 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

Given that the OP seems to model (mostly) fictitious locations, I can't help wondering why he's so concerned about the numbers of the locomotives …

 

 

Your point is?

 

[PaulRhB]

I seem to do more repainting and remembering for mates than myself!

I reckon half my modelling mates do a fair bit of repainting and numbering and the other half won’t touch it as they are too scared to damage a model they’ve had to save up for. Fortunately one mate who is scared stiff of renumbering locos is more than willing to rebuild a pc for me so we just share skills on what we feel confident doing  

 

 

Ok simplified as it was for his lad but it started out in IC livery

 

Even taken on some fairly extensive repaints for others  

 

These actually were for me and started as plain grey vans and I had to make the lettering transfers up too 

 

One advantage of locos with plates is they are much easier to renumber

I just find I need to be in the mood to take it on and I’ve renumbered some locos for others that cost quite a bit more than I can justify on one loco!

 

 

[97406]

12 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

I seem to do more repainting and remembering for mates than myself!

I reckon half my modelling mates do a fair bit of repainting and numbering and the other half won’t touch it as they are too scared to damage a model they’ve had to save up for. Fortunately one mate who is scared stiff of renumbering locos is more than willing to rebuild a pc for me so we just share skills on what we feel confident doing  

 

 

Ok simplified as it was for his lad but it started out in IC livery

 

Even taken on some fairly extensive repaints for others  

 

These actually were for me and started as plain grey vans and I had to make the lettering transfers up too 

 

One advantage of locos with plates is they are much easier to renumber

I just find I need to be in the mood to take it on and I’ve renumbered some locos for others that cost quite a bit more than I can justify on one loco!

 

 

The problem with working on other people’s models like that is that I wouldn’t want to give them back! Some great work there.

 

[PMP]

4 hours ago, 97406 said:

The problem with working on other people’s models like that is that I wouldn’t want to give them back! Some great work there.

 

The thing you never get back if you’re doing them for someone else is the time! I suspect that’s why ‘mates rates’ are popular among a good proportion of modellers who do conversion and kit builds

[PaulRhB]

That’s why it’s good to have the barter system and get mates rates in return  

There are a few models it’s been hard to let go but as they are for mates I often get to see them again so that makes it easier. It has also lead to me doing another for me occasionally  

[rocor]

18 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

I seem to do more repainting and remembering for mates than myself!

 

 

I would like to find someone to do some remembering for me.

 

These days, I seem to find that I have a diminishing talent for it.

 

 

 

[Rugd1022]

21 hours ago, rob D2 said:

Super nice finish on that one ! I’d considered North Star but did GJ churchward instead .

 

Thanks Rob. As I said I've not done any modelling for a long time but reading this thread is making want to get back on the horse, so to speak. I don't have room for the layout I'd really like to build but fancy giving one of Heljan's 7mm locos the full treatment just to keep my hand in, maybe a 61xx Prairie, a 20, a 40 or a 47 . Funny thing is just lately it's while I'm at work driving trains that I get vague ideas about potential modelling projects - last week I was working 6H50 from Wembley to Crewe, pottering along the slow line at 60mph but imagining myself driving a filthy green 40 on the fast line with fourteen maroon Mk1s in tow, this thought then migrated to doing something similar in 7mm!

[rob D2]

54 minutes ago, Rugd1022 said:

 

Thanks Rob. As I said I've not done any modelling for a long time but reading this thread is making want to get back on the horse, so to speak. I don't have room for the layout I'd really like to build but fancy giving one of Heljan's 7mm locos the full treatment just to keep my hand in, maybe a 61xx Prairie, a 20, a 40 or a 47 . Funny thing is just lately it's while I'm at work driving trains that I get vague ideas about potential modelling projects - last week I was working 6H50 from Wembley to Crewe, pottering along the slow line at 60mph but imagining myself driving a filthy green 40 on the fast line with fourteen maroon Mk1s in tow, this thought then migrated to doing something similar in 7mm!

Thought you'd be a cert for a LL 50 !

[Rugd1022]

1 hour ago, rob D2 said:

Thought you'd be a cert for a LL 50 !

 

Now there's a thought....! I keep drifting back to the mid '60s period though, when it was mostly green locos with a smattering of maroon..... 

[BoD]

You may well be right that the number of people renumbering is diminishing but I get the impression, from posts here and elsewhere, that some of those who produce the decals/transfers are struggling, at times, to meet the demand. 
 

Perhaps there is a reason for that, one person business etc, but it shows that there is life in the beast yet.

[MarkSG]

On 06/08/2021 at 00:03, RichardT said:

As well as instant gratification there’s also the situation of more modellers coming into the hobby later in life, rather than as impecunious school children.  They may have a consequent reluctance to spend what precious time is left on developing skills, instead preferring to accept what the trade supplies in the interests of getting a layout completed (especially if later-life entrants are cash-rich as well as time-poor.)

 

I think that's a good point. In my first phase of modelling, in my teens and early twenties, I was quite happy to repaint and renumber models. But I haven't done it at all in my second, later-adult phase. And a lot of that is a simple question of time.

 

When I was a youngster, I could easily spend most evenings, and all day at the weekend, in the shed my dad had let me use for my layout. And I spent that time on all sorts of things, including constructing kits, scratchbuilding buildings and repainting locos and rolling stock. The very first loco I ever bought with my own money I renumbered as soon as I had it out of the box. 

 

But these days, modelling has to compete with so many other things for my time. As well as my family, I have various evening commitments as part of my council role that eat into the time available. And, unlike when I was at school, I don't get a six-week holiday in summer! 

 

What that means, in practice, is that my modelling time now is spent on the things that I really need to do, rather than the things that I might like to do. Which means baseboards, scenery, track, electrics, etc - the sort of thing that needs work to make useful rather than just taking it out of the box. I do still build the occasional wagon kit, but otherwise pretty much all the locos and rolling stock are as I bought them. I don't even have time to do much weathering these days, although when I'm in the mood I will still sit down at my workbench with a model and a selection of paints and powders. The majority of my modelling time, though, is spent building the layout that all the stuff I buy will run on.

[Zomboid]

I basically wrecked a £250 locomotive attempting to weather it.

 

Not doing that again, thanks. They can stay how the factory sent them.

 

I don't get too worried about "but 29854 wasn't in Missmarpleshire in 1962" issues anyway.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Zomboid

[JohnDMJ]

 

1 hour ago, Zomboid said:

I basically wrecked a £250 locomotive attempting to weather it.

 

Not doing that again, thanks. They can stay how the factory sent them.

 

I don't get too worried about "but 29854 wasn't in Missmarpleshire in 1962" issues anyway.

 

Ah! Another aficionado of the ubiquitous Rule One!

[wombatofludham]

I must admit I've rediscovered the joy of weathering after my brother pointed me in the direction of some YouTube videos on using weathering powders - then suggested cheap eye make-up as pigment!  A few trials on scrap bodies and chassis and that was it.  Using pigment - whether proper modelling pigment or ladies eye lard - does at least allow you to wipe off anything you are unhappy with before fixing in place with a suitable fixative (cheap artist's pastel fixative is much cheaper than modelling fixative) so the threat to expensive models is lessened.

Renumbering, renaming or denaming is a bit more involved, especially with some of the more fiddly numbers, but again, is worth the effort.  Renumbering and renaming a Heljan Class 86/2 after my 7x great uncle Josiah Wedgwood (yeah, not sure about that Ancestry.com) was simple with some T-Cut on a cotton bud, removing the last two digits of 86 214 and the Intercity "dead bats" (236 didn't have swallow logos) then adding the new numbers.  In fact the most difficult bit was adding two tiny individual numbers to the existing "86 2" as they were small and fiddly, and there's never been a Class 36 to save the use of individual numbers.  Once in place, and some light weathering applied, I sealed the lot with some fixative.  Job done, and a loco named after a distant relative.

For those who might be nervous of renumbering or weathering, take your time, practice weathering on some scrap bodies, look at photos to see how dirty - or not - locos were in real life, and you will end up surprising yourself just what you can do and achieve and discover a whole new skillset.

One word of warning - as I say in my blog posts about using eye make up as weathering pigment, don't for the love of your Crown Jewels raid the other half's makeup bag to weather your stock if you decide to try it.  Buy your own.  

[wombatofludham]

16 hours ago, Zomboid said:

I don't get too worried about "but 29854 wasn't in Missmarpleshire in 1962" issues anyway.

And why not, model railways are a hobby, not some penance for past sins.  That said, despite me modelling fictional locations, I do try to keep things reasonably accurate stock wise.  Apart from a Park Royal railbus which has mysteriously appeared in the Black Country in a vain attempt to cut costs on a local service.  And an APT-E.  I'll probably also trial one of Charlie's new Class 142s on the branch despite WMPTE-Centro resolutely refusing the Nodders in real life.

That's probably enough points on my modellers licence to get me a lifetime ban from the Finescale Taliban...

[darrel]

I'm planning on doing a class 73/9 i opted to buy cheap lima 73s from ebay. If I make a mess of it it won't have cost me much. The alternative would have been to buy the more expensive Dapol 73. 

One thing though is the lack of detailing kits these days. In the past you could get detailing kits from craftsman and A1 models containing etched grills bufferbeam detailing etc. That's an issue if you want to detail old lima models. I appreciate that modern locos come fully detailed and there isn't the demand for detailing kits that there used to be.

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, darrel said:

I'm planning on doing a class 73/9 i opted to buy cheap lima 73s from ebay. If I make a mess of it it won't have cost me much. The alternative would have been to buy the more expensive Dapol 73. 

One thing though is the lack of detailing kits these days. In the past you could get detailing kits from craftsman and A1 models containing etched grills bufferbeam detailing etc. That's an issue if you want to detail old lima models. I appreciate that modern locos come fully detailed and there isn't the demand for detailing kits that there used to be.

 

Just keep searching as they turn up. When they start again, look in the boxes of bits at exhibitions that everyone seems to ignore. Keep looking on eBay.

 

I've bought a handful of the Craftsman detailing packs for very reasonable prices since their demise.  Not got any 73s, but 33s, 40s, 50s, 86s, Deltics, Warships, etc seem very common.

 

One thing that does seem to go for ridiculous money is the DMU packs, particularly the ones with the etched sides.

 

 

Jason

[Talltim]

On 05/08/2021 at 22:13, JohnDMJ said:

 

Kato's Class 800s illustrate this well! "Will they be doing xyz livery?" for example. Answer = NOT LIKELY!

 

What is not realised is that the UK is a very specialised market and insignificant in the global field. For example, only about 10% of Kato's Class 800s were distributed to the UK. One enterprising business has already produced vinyls to transform them to other liveries, however.

 

 

Where else do 800s run?

Edited August 10, 2021 by Talltim

[AndrueC]

On 05/08/2021 at 20:49, melmerby said:

Typical putdown of those that would rather build & operate than spend time renumbering.

Speaking as a 54 year old N gauge modeller I can say that renumbering is not something I care much about. The only loco I can even read the number on is my Queen Elizabeth and of course that number is always correct.

 

'Build and operate' really is where it stops for me. I prefer modern stock (a rare exception is my Queen Elizabeth but I view that very much as a 'Sunday special') so I buy on what looks good. A purist would probably cringe if they saw what I have sat side-by-side in my staging area and what they are pulling  

 

But it's a hobby. I enjoy what I do and that's all that should matter. I'd be overjoyed if someone would produce an N gauge APT-E (*)and quite pleased if I could get a Princess Elizabeth but as long as I have some kind of trains to run I'm happy.

 

(*)Actually right now Dapol could make me happy by finally announcing availability of their new Super Voyager.

Edited August 10, 2021 by AndrueC

[HonestTom]

I'm not too bothered about renumbering - my modelling is always based on semi-fictional locations anyway, so I can argue that such-and-such a locomotive would have been allocated here if that place had existed, or something. Shed plates aren't really visible from normal viewing distance.