Building points using Peco code 75 Bullhead

[Gordon A]

You could pack the copper clad points up to the matching height using thin card or thick paper.

 

Gordon A

 

 

 

[Captain_Mumbles]

16 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

@Captain_Mumbles

 

Hi,

 

Don't use the dreaded DOGAF unless you know what you are doing and have good reason. All your RTR models would need to have their wheel back-to-back settings adjusted.

 

The two sensible options are 00-BF and 00-SF. Both use the same 15.2mm check gauge and accept unmodified RTR wheels. 00-BF has a wider tolerance on the back-to-back setting for older models, but won't accept kit wheels. it is RTR only.

 

All this has been discussed and argued about incessantly on RMweb for the past 15 years, so I won't type it all over again, look back through some of the topics.

 

Glad you are now into Templot.   Don't forget it has its own forum at https://85a.uk/templot/club/

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Thanks Martin for helping me out with that I am sure that was a case of 'you dont know what you dont know' Still have A LOT to learn with Templot and I am slowly finding those tutorials. I really liked the  Templot for the totally confused video. A lot of it for me is learning the terminology and just the names of all those different kinds of crossings and slips.

Cheers!

 

 

[Captain_Mumbles]

3 hours ago, Gordon A said:

You could pack the copper clad points up to the matching height using thin card or thick paper.

 

Gordon A

 

 

 

I will be definitely doing this if I try spacers and it doesnt work.

Further to that idea, I could print the template on sticky paper, stick it to a sheet of styrene. Cut out the sleepers and peel them off. Glue on the sleepers, and there is a semi rigid template that holds everything for me and that could be just glued to the layout.

 

Now I am armed with all these ideas I really want to start cuttting rails and PCB's but the floor panels just turned up for the loft so I will be getting busy on that!!!

Edited August 12, 2021 by Captain_Mumbles

[SteveCornford]

Earlier in this thread you mentioned using greater than 1:7 crossings.

If you plan to create diamonds or slips then youn you might be interested in this post from the Templot Archive:-

https://85a.uk/templot/archive/topics/topic_288.php#p1587

 

Have you decided on your track gauge yet, and bought any gauges?

If not, then having tried OO-SF I can vouch for the improved running due to the smaller flangeway gap.

 

While you are laying your floor panels, now is the time to purchase your track gauges.

 

Also worth browsing the Templot Club and the Old Templot archive , where Martin Wynne and others have posted really useful tips.

For example, knukle bends & Set bends https://85a.uk/templot/archive/topics/topic_3800.php#p31124

 

Filing the rail for the crossings: https://85a.uk/templot/archive/topics/topic_359.php#p2078

 

Good luck with your project

Steve

 

 

[Captain_Mumbles]

1 hour ago, SteveCornford said:

Earlier in this thread you mentioned using greater than 1:7 crossings.

If you plan to create diamonds or slips then youn you might be interested in this post from the Templot Archive:-

https://85a.uk/templot/archive/topics/topic_288.php#p1587

 

Have you decided on your track gauge yet, and bought any gauges?

If not, then having tried OO-SF I can vouch for the improved running due to the smaller flangeway gap.

 

While you are laying your floor panels, now is the time to purchase your track gauges.

 

Also worth browsing the Templot Club and the Old Templot archive , where Martin Wynne and others have posted really useful tips.

For example, knukle bends & Set bends https://85a.uk/templot/archive/topics/topic_3800.php#p31124

 

Filing the rail for the crossings: https://85a.uk/templot/archive/topics/topic_359.php#p2078

 

Good luck with your project

Steve

 

 

Mate I cant thank you enough for taking the time to share all that with me.

I will use the advice, that OO-SF will be my gauge and will place an order for the 16.2's. If I get to making anything before they arrive from the UK then I might make myself some gauges out of sheetmetal to see if that can get me started. I will admit long crossings and diamonds are getting the anxiety up there but I am hoping that years and years of being a sheety will help me.

Looks like I have myself a heck of a project!

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Captain_Mumbles
typos

[brossard]

51 minutes ago, Captain_Mumbles said:

Mate I cant thank you enough for taking the time to share all that with me.

I will use the advice, that OO-SF will be my gauge and will place an order for the 16.2's. If I get to making anything before they arrive from the UK then I might make myself some gauges out of sheetmetal to see if that can get me started. I will admit long crossings and diamonds are getting the anxiety up there but I am hoping that years and years of being a sheety will help me.

Looks like I have myself a heck of a project!

 

 

I still think the best way to get started is to buy yourself a kit from either of the two sources listed above.  I am doubtful about homemade gauges, difficult to get the precision unless you have a machine tool.

 

BTW, I was skeptical about the strength in the region of the crossing and contemplated using copper clad in the area.  However, I soon realized that there was no issue.

 

John

[Captain_Mumbles]

20 hours ago, brossard said:

 

I still think the best way to get started is to buy yourself a kit from either of the two sources listed above.  I am doubtful about homemade gauges, difficult to get the precision unless you have a machine tool.

 

BTW, I was skeptical about the strength in the region of the crossing and contemplated using copper clad in the area.  However, I soon realized that there was no issue.

 

John

You mean that the chairs into the wooden sleepers was durable enough versus soldering to copper clad?

[SteveCornford]

I found inspiration from quite a few of John Hayfield's posts.

 

Here is one that demonstrates making the crossing vees as a sub-assembly:-

 

So many solutions but not enough time to try them all?

 

Here is another one using copperclad and Masokits etched chairs:

 

https://85a.uk/templot/archive/topics/topic_3713.php

 

When you say "other side of the planet", any particular climatic conditions to contend with. ie temprature range, humidity?

 

Steve

 

 

 

[brossard]

4 hours ago, Captain_Mumbles said:

You mean that the chairs into the wooden sleepers was durable enough versus soldering to copper clad?

 

Well, mine are 0 gauge but yes, I used plastic chairs (Peco) and wooden timbers and they are fine.  I would recommend using MEK from a hardware store if you can.

 

 

The center turnout is Peco with improved tiebars.  The other two are handbuilt on the same footprint as the Peco.

 

Everything is now incorporated and running trials have been excellent.  I'm using Tortoise and Wabbit.

 

 

 

 

Overview of the layout.  Handbuilt tunouts are brown.

 

John

[Captain_Mumbles]

Amazing! O Gauge has a lot of presence

[RedgateModels]

On 14/08/2021 at 15:21, brossard said:

 

Well, mine are 0 gauge but yes, I used plastic chairs (Peco) and wooden timbers and they are fine.  I would recommend using MEK from a hardware store if you can.

 

 

The center turnout is Peco with improved tiebars.  The other two are handbuilt on the same footprint as the Peco.

 

Everything is now incorporated and running trials have been excellent.  I'm using Tortoise and Wabbit.

 

 

 

 

Overview of the layout.  Handbuilt tunouts are brown.

 

John

Nice, does highlight the limitations of ready to lay profile pointwork. In reality the track work would flow in a smooth curve from cattle Dock off scene.

If you are hand building it is worth getting to grips with Templot

 

A pic of mine should illustrate this, see how the turnout into the goods shed is a very subtle Y as the line kicks out past it. In fact the is not a single straight section of track in that turnout

 

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by RedgateModels

[brossard]

Brilliant trackwork, the slip looks lovely.  I made a single slip but it has one or two issues that I will need to tackle.   While I have looked at Templot, I can't get my brain around it.  When I do need to produce a non standard template I use Trax 2 which I can manage.  For my current layout most of my turnouts were on Peco templates.

 

John

[hayfield]

5 hours ago, brossard said:

Brilliant trackwork, the slip looks lovely.  I made a single slip but it has one or two issues that I will need to tackle.   While I have looked at Templot, I can't get my brain around it.  When I do need to produce a non standard template I use Trax 2 which I can manage.  For my current layout most of my turnouts were on Peco templates.

 

John

 

John

 

I used that excuse at work when I could not be bothered to learn a new system. Templot in its basic form is very easy and user friendly. I have attached a link where Richard who is a novice with Templot shows how east it is to use

 

Even building a slip or a 3 way is automated now.

[brossard]

Ha ha John, I admit that I haven't checked Templot recently.  I did find my comfort zone and built the turnouts for my layout that way (Peco templates mostly).  Track is all done now so the impetus to spend time on Templot really isn't there now.

 

Thanks for the link, I will check it out.

 

John

[Captain_Mumbles]

Well, I've finally starting making something and I have run some wagons through it and it works. Don't know if it is good enough for the layout yet. I made little rectangular chairs and it seems to work OK. Will use more structural sleepers next time I think. Might even add more to this one if I use it. It was definitely a 'learning curve'

 

[Captain_Mumbles]

Im still a little trigger happy with the solder. I am waiting for my jewelers saw to turn up in the mail before I can make the cuts in the rails near the frogs before I can put power to em. But the old rolling chassis of an A3 seems to go through happily enough... By the time I get to the 28th one I might have the hang of it! The little brass chairs can be a bit of a pain but once I have a few sleepers on there it gets easier.

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Captain_Mumbles

[brossard]

Not quite sure where you're going here.  I assume you will fill the gaps with plastic timbers and chairs.  Not something I have ever done, but it has crossed my mind to raise the rail with brass strip.  You will have to use half chairs since you can't thread them now.  I shall watch with interest.  Yes, it does take a few false starts to get turnout construction.

 

As to soldering, a couple of points:

 

1)  I use desoldering copper braid to remove excess solder.  It wicks up the solder when heat is applied.  There are probably other methods.

 

2)  To control the amount of solder I apply, for years now I have cut tiny pieces of solder off the roll, picked them up with the iron and applied to the work.

 

John

 

I should also say that the turnout layout looks good to my eye.

 

I would suggest you complete at least one turnout to make sure everything is working out as you expect.

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by brossard

[Captain_Mumbles]

16 hours ago, brossard said:

Not quite sure where you're going here.  I assume you will fill the gaps with plastic timbers and chairs.  Not something I have ever done, but it has crossed my mind to raise the rail with brass strip.  You will have to use half chairs since you can't thread them now.  I shall watch with interest.  Yes, it does take a few false starts to get turnout construction.

 

As to soldering, a couple of points:

 

1)  I use desoldering copper braid to remove excess solder.  It wicks up the solder when heat is applied.  There are probably other methods.

 

2)  To control the amount of solder I apply, for years now I have cut tiny pieces of solder off the roll, picked them up with the iron and applied to the work.

 

John

 

I should also say that the turnout layout looks good to my eye.

 

I would suggest you complete at least one turnout to make sure everything is working out as you expect.

 

As you have said, I am reluctant to do any more due to not being able to cut the frog to isolate it at this point, until the new saw comes in the mail. You have given me some good ideas about the soldering.

I have tried to make my job easier by ordering some DCC concepts brass chairs to try only to find out the Peco bull head track I am using is a different spec and does not work. Hopefully I can get some of their track as well.

In the mean time, I tried some ideas on filling the gaps. I tried cutting and shutting the plastic sleepers, which looked OK, not exactly happy with it, but it could pass. I had to be careful, with the peco sleepers spaced out to 16.5mm or maybe even a touch more, I had to cut the inside part of the chair claw off so it doesnt push the 16.2mm track work out too hard and make my beautiful point look like an old rickety piece of track. The Peco chairs clip/snap back on by pushing up into the inside chair from underneath with a sharp pick. I did have a lot of success cutting the chairs off the sleepers as well.  So they could be used on some 1.5x3mm pine that I have. So there are some options.

Ben

 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Captain_Mumbles

[Captain_Mumbles]

Templot also looks like draws the sleepers around the point work a little wider that it is on plain track? Leading me to believe that the timbers in the point work were heavier?? Add on top of that my slightly inconsistent copper clad with (yes I am working on that) making plastic sleepers in the point work look a little odd. Would still be passable under some paint and in some ballast.

 

Ben

[hayfield]

To coin a phrase you are on the right track, but you are mixing up makes and scales. Also the sequence of the building process could be different and would make things a bit easier. This is not meant to criticize what you are doing, but to encourage you not to give up and develop it

 

I also see you have a lifetime supply of L1 chairs, why they did not male standard chairs has interested a few of us 

 

 

[Captain_Mumbles]

Hahaha I like that. I chose these few bits of pointwork to start with as they are at the back of the layout and I hope to be 'on the right track' by the time I get to the fore ground stuff. The CL 3 bolt chair sprues are probably as stop in the near future. I don't know that much about the chairs only that it would be 3 bolt chairs on my era of choice most likely not to mention my point work is a little on the heavy side at the moment. Things seems to push and roll through them quite well though. Locos under power need to be tried yet thought right.... 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Captain_Mumbles

[martin_wynne]

2 hours ago, Captain_Mumbles said:

Templot also looks like draws the sleepers around the point work a little wider that it is on plain track? Leading me to believe that the timbers in the point work were heavier??

 

Hi Ben,

 

Yes, that's right. We are really going back to basics now. Although if all folks have ever known is Peco, they would have no means of knowing:

 

Plain track has sleepers. Traditional wooden ones are 10 inches wide, 5 inches thick, 8ft-6in long. (254mm, 127mm, 2591mm). A century ago, some of them were 9ft long. In 00 gauge they are usually modelled as 8ft long.

 

Pointwork has "crossing timbers", or usually just timbers. Traditional wooden ones are 12 inches wide and 6 inches thick. (305mm, 152mm). The lengths start at 8ft-6in and increase in 6-inch steps as needed.

 

In 4mm/ft scale (00, EM, P4) sleepers are 3.3mm wide and timbers are 4mm wide. You can buy lengths of plywood and copper-clad strip in these widths for making them.

 

Modern concrete and steel (and plastic) "sleepers" and "bearers" differ a bit, but are broadly similar sizes.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Edited October 19, 2021 by martin_wynne
00 note added

[Captain_Mumbles]

@martin_wynnethank you for that insight. it has been something I often wondered. Although I tried to stick to the drawings I think you can tell by my hand made 'timbers' I wasn't really sure. I'll need to stock up on those sizes. 

Cheers. 

Ben

[Captain_Mumbles]

Perfect project for wet and rainy day.

[Captain_Mumbles]

Back into it after a bit of a break from it due to work and life getting in the way of things. Still using the peco bullhead flexi for the rails. They both are built with the slightest of curves and that was pretty hard for me to do but got there eventually.

 

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by Captain_Mumbles