Andymsa Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said: A classis example of dangerous misinformation. Thank you @Phil Parker for setting the record straight. Ok maybe I should of said was our hospitals overwhelmed or a massive rise in deaths Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fezza Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 Despite what is said by some on here I suspect that many are desperate to get to exhibitions. The Garden rail show at Peterborough sold out. I suspect you are now probably more likely to die in a road accident on the way to an exhibition than catch Covid at an exhibition and die (assuming you are double vaccinated and have no underlying conditions). 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2021 57 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said: And don't forget that, unlike most other large Model Railway Exhibitions, there are other events going on at the NEC alongside the Warley Show, including the much bigger motorbike show, usually right next door, meaning that the whole complex is very busy for the whole weekend. John The bike show is on this year, a couple of weeks later, early December. It has similar’crowd control’ conditions to Warley, the demographic is younger, and more varied though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 6 minutes ago, PMP said: The bike show is on this year, a couple of weeks later, early December. It has similar’crowd control’ conditions to Warley, the demographic is younger, and more varied though. They can just keep their helmets on all day and be happy 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 15 minutes ago, fezza said: Despite what is said by some on here I suspect that many are desperate to get to exhibitions. The Garden rail show at Peterborough sold out. I suspect you are now probably more likely to die in a road accident on the way to an exhibition than catch Covid at an exhibition and die (assuming you are double vaccinated and have no underlying conditions). You're probably correct, but did Warley cancel because of the risk of catching covid or because financially it was at risk of losing a lot of money if people's fears kept them away as both exhibiters and visitors. I'd put my money on the latter. 1 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
009 micro modeller Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 10 minutes ago, PMP said: The bike show is on this year, a couple of weeks later, early December. It has similar’crowd control’ conditions to Warley, the demographic is younger, and more varied though. Does it work in the same way as a model railway exhibition though, in the sense of having multiple exhibitors attending voluntarily (i.e. paid expenses but not employed), without whom the exhibition couldn’t go ahead in the intended format? I would have thought the issue for the Warley organisers (possibly more than the demographic, especially as most older age groups are already vaccinated and all adults should be by November/December) would be the potential cost and complexity of cancelling things like exhibitor accommodation and transport already paid for at short notice, not just the costs for the venue itself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said: Does it work in the same way as a model railway exhibition though, in the sense of having multiple exhibitors attending voluntarily (i.e. paid expenses but not employed), without whom the exhibition couldn’t go ahead in the intended format? I would have thought the issue for the Warley organisers (possibly more than the demographic, especially as most older age groups are already vaccinated and all adults should be by November/December) would be the potential cost and complexity of cancelling things like exhibitor accommodation and transport already paid for at short notice, not just the costs for the venue itself. Older people are generally more risk averse so this will impact decision making as to whether or not to be at an exhibition, the bikers will be younger and also crucially less risk averse - a motorbike is not something a risk averse person will usually be found sat on. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted August 10, 2021 Administrators Share Posted August 10, 2021 33 minutes ago, fezza said: Despite what is said by some on here I suspect that many are desperate to get to exhibitions. The Garden rail show at Peterborough sold out. Not sure where you got that from. The plan had to been to allow 750 in for a morning and slightly less for the afternoon session. There were tickets left for both, so in the end they abandoned the two different sessions and let everyone in all day. There was plenty of space and a pleasant time was had by all - but the crowd was less than 10% of a Warley. OK, the NEC is two days as opposed to one for the NGRS, but they are different beasts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 8 minutes ago, Phil Parker said: Not sure where you got that from. The plan had to been to allow 750 in for a morning and slightly less for the afternoon session. There were tickets left for both, so in the end they abandoned the two different sessions and let everyone in all day. There was plenty of space and a pleasant time was had by all - but the crowd was less than 10% of a Warley. OK, the NEC is two days as opposed to one for the NGRS, but they are different beasts. And the Peterborough Arena has just won a major award for the best venue over 8,000sq.m for its Covid-related management of events. The garden railway show was a well-handled, well-spaced event but you're right PA isn't the NEC and the Garden Rail show is very different from Warley. It does give hope, though, that the right event in the right venue can work in spite of Covid. (CJL) 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagrizz Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 Well I (and many others) went to the Stafford toyfair on Sunday, the first since March 2020. I'd say it was a little quieter than pre-covid, but not much. Some punters and traders wore masks but most did not. The aisles at Stafford are narrower than Warley so you are in closer contact to many other people. The demographic of punters and traders at toyfairs is similar to model railway exhibitions. If lots of people were happy to enter that sort of environment, why not a model railway exhibition? Reading the posts above makes me wonder if those views represent the population at large? Graham 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2021 21 minutes ago, dibber25 said: And the Peterborough Arena has just won a major award for the best venue over 8,000sq.m for its Covid-related management of events. The garden railway show was a well-handled, well-spaced event but you're right PA isn't the NEC and the Garden Rail show is very different from Warley. It does give hope, though, that the right event in the right venue can work in spite of Covid. (CJL) I think the timing must have been a major factor in the cancellation. It was just too soon. Quite simply, the Warley club had to decide whether or not to stage the biggest show in the calendar before enough smaller events had taken place to establish how exhibitor/trader/attendee behaviour might have altered. Biggest show, biggest risk, Huge financial implications if it went badly. My guess is that the bigger exhibitions won't really get going again before the spring. By then, such matters will have become a lot clearer. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2021 Great Shame, but que ser sera. There wil be other exhibitions that will go ahead this year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fezza Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Phil Parker said: Not sure where you got that from. The plan had to been to allow 750 in for a morning and slightly less for the afternoon session. There were tickets left for both, so in the end they abandoned the two different sessions and let everyone in all day. There was plenty of space and a pleasant time was had by all - but the crowd was less than 10% of a Warley. OK, the NEC is two days as opposed to one for the NGRS, but they are different beasts. Well from the fact I couldn't buy tickets from the website the week before as they'd apparently been sold? But maybe something went wrong with the system. A friend of mine had similar issues as we were both going to go just to support it really. Certainly retailers are reporting very strong sales this year so I don't think exhibitions that go ahead will have a problem from a lack of interest. Many people are desperate for somewhere to go. It's an opportunity for other exhibition organisers to challenge Warley as the No1 event. Build it and I'm sure they'll come... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2021 47 minutes ago, fezza said: Well from the fact I couldn't buy tickets from the website the week before as they'd apparently been sold? But maybe something went wrong with the system. A friend of mine had similar issues as we were both going to go just to support it really. Certainly retailers are reporting very strong sales this year so I don't think exhibitions that go ahead will have a problem from a lack of interest. Many people are desperate for somewhere to go. It's an opportunity for other exhibition organisers to challenge Warley as the No1 event. Build it and I'm sure they'll come... Problem is, there haven't yet been enough shows of whatever size to gauge either the extent of that or the degree to which any benefit from that might be negated by perhaps as many others equally desperate to avoid crowded indoor events. That's why I consider that the return to a "normal" exhibition scene will start from the bottom up with the sizes of shows gradually increasing as confidence builds. Big shows cost a lot to mount and if (for example) Warley went ahead but only attracted three quarters of the usual attendance, that wouldn't cover their expenses. In this case, it seems that too many of their usual traders wouldn't come and it needs more than punters to make such an event succeed. As for others taking over the top spot, it would be a brave committee that proposed attempting that right now, given that failure would spell oblivion for their club. Warley know about mounting the biggest show on the circuit, and if the arithmetic is too risky for them, it's almost certainly too risky for anybody else. John 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2021 5 hours ago, fezza said: I suspect you are now probably more likely to die in a road accident on the way to an exhibition than catch Covid at an exhibition and die (assuming you are double vaccinated and have no underlying conditions). 2020 UK road traffic deaths 1,472 2020 UK Covid deaths 130,000. Source gov.uk Hard to find exact number of Covid, but it's seriously in excess of road accidents. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said: 2020 UK road traffic deaths 1,472 2020 UK Covid deaths 130,000. Source gov.uk Hard to find exact number of Covid, but it's seriously in excess of road accidents. Oh, the fun we can have with numbers. The original assertion can be challenged, but taking the total number of Covid deaths in 2020 and comparing it to road deaths when road traffic was heavily suppressed for much of the year through lockdowns is equally misleading. The correct metric would be to compare the potential mortality of a double vaccinated person (of which there were none in 2020) from Covid compared to a road accident in later 2021. But we are talking perceptions of risk and as we have discovered again and again, humans are pretty bad at accurately assessing their own personal risk. If enough people stay away from Warley to affect the viability of the exhibition, the damage is done regardless of how justifiable or otherwise the reasons may be. However, Warley has for many years been the premier model railway show but an effective three year absence between 2019 - 2022 does allow others to potentially pick up the baton. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymsa Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said: 2020 UK road traffic deaths 1,472 2020 UK Covid deaths 130,000. Source gov.uk Hard to find exact number of Covid, but it's seriously in excess of road accidents. The post was talking about the present and not last year. From .gov COVID was the third biggest killer in March , and was 24th in june https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/england-asmr-office-for-national-statistics-b941441.html%3famp Edited August 10, 2021 by Andymsa 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2021 The last model show I attended was Warley 2019. Happy to wait for Warley 2022 and plenty of things to get on with in the mean time. Also happy to be vaccinated and happy to continue wearing masks in shops and on public transport for the benefit of people working in the shops and operating the transport. Cheers Darius 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2021 9 minutes ago, andyman7 said: an effective three year absence between 2019 - 2022 does allow others to potentially pick up the baton. You first. Cheers Darius 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fezza Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 25 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said: 2020 UK road traffic deaths 1,472 2020 UK Covid deaths 130,000. Source gov.uk Hard to find exact number of Covid, but it's seriously in excess of road accidents. How many double vaccinated, fit people with no underlying health conditions under 70 have died? I sadly lost two elderly friends from cancer this year - but both were classed as Covid victims because they caught it during their final days in hospital. You have to be very careful with these official figures. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted August 10, 2021 Administrators Share Posted August 10, 2021 2 hours ago, fezza said: Many people are desperate for somewhere to go. It's an opportunity for other exhibition organisers to challenge Warley as the No1 event. Build it and I'm sure they'll come... 38 minutes ago, andyman7 said: However, Warley has for many years been the premier model railway show but an effective three year absence between 2019 - 2022 does allow others to potentially pick up the baton. So that's two people forming a committee to book a massive hall and put on a Warley replacement. Don't forget to put the date in the show calendar on RMweb... 1 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widnes Model Centre Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 I am aware that some model railway exhibitions are in the process of being organised under the Covid safety banner. Not advertising in the normal way to keep numbers down to a safe manageable level. Almost ‘word of mouth’. As a trader l can’t afford to employ extra staff to cover shop/ exhibitions, knowing that reduced numbers will inevitably lead to lower sales. One concerning factor for ourselves is the difficulty in obtaining satisfactory stock for our shop. We are absolutely certain that we wouldn’t be able to bulk order for an exhibition. We are working longer hours, despite the shop being open for less trading hours. Most of that extra time is trying to find stock of modelling items across all genres. Well documented all the reasons for difficulties in finding items, no matter where in the world they come from. 1 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fezza Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 35 minutes ago, Phil Parker said: So that's two people forming a committee to book a massive hall and put on a Warley replacement. Don't forget to put the date in the show calendar on RMweb... It's that sort of arrogance and complacency that's seen a lot of organisations and companies go to the wall in recent years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2021 10 minutes ago, fezza said: It's that sort of arrogance and complacency that's seen a lot of organisations and companies go to the wall in recent years. I think you need to take a look in the mirror. Darius Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 On 09/08/2021 at 18:35, F-UnitMad said: As Des Lynam said when the USA introduced Beach Volleyball for the Olympics... "Going down the Pub is not yet an Olympic Event." Shouldn't you be at work? As for Warley. Isn't it up to the organisers? If they aren't ready yet, then they aren't ready. Always next year to try again. I might be ready to attend an event holding 10,000s of people with no qualms. But not everyone is. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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