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Warley National Model Exhibition 2021 - Cancelled


Graham_Muz
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Maybe the real focus should be towards the government and the mixed messages that are given out that would give organisations better confidence to organise events. :banghead:
 

it’s really understandable why warley organisers have cancelled.

Edited by Andymsa
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1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

 

 

So that's two people forming a committee to book a massive hall and put on a Warley replacement. Don't forget to put the date in the show calendar on RMweb...

Hang on Phil, I didn't say that! I'm just observing that big disruptors like Covid can allow new ventures to emerge in any field. I've attended Warley in preference to some of the other big shows in the past; if one of those other ones goes ahead and I like the experience it may be that I stick with that one instead. So a case of supporting what is already planned rather than putting another event in.

 

Can I just make it clear that I recognise the circumstances and reasons for Warley to do what they have done, and in their position they are holding the risk and no observer (including me) has the right to argue that somehow they should go ahead if they've reviewed the situation and decided that it is not viable. For what it's worth I am already out and about supporting events that people are putting on, and I do help at a large model railway show that is scheduled to go ahead early next year.

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Andymsa said:

Maybe the real focus should be towards the government and the mixed messages that are given out that would give organisations better confidence to organise events. :banghead:
 

it’s really understandable why warley organisers have cancelled.

In the case of Warley, I think its just that lockdown has been eased too recently for them to have gained any real idea as to what extent attendances are recovering (or not) from how other shows have fared. 

 

I don't think anything HMG has said or can say would make any real difference to that. Quite simply, we are in a transitional period between lockdown and the full "normality" that that are not honest enough to tell us is a few  years away rather than a few months. Some people want to believe it's all over, and are behaving as if it is, whilst others are acting with increased caution to protect themselves from the first lot! The bald truth is that, for most of us, Covid-19 represents a much smaller threat than it did, but we are still a long way from being wholly safe

 

As for "mixed messages", right from the beginning of this, that's been the excuse offered by people who wanted to be able to claim "confusion" and do stuff they knew darned well they shouldn't be doing!   

 

John

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Being involved in getting one of the smaller shows going for the beginning of September (South Notts on 4th and 5th at Cotgrave) there are a lot of things we have had to balance.

 

Firstly- we can't know what the infection rate will be and whether Boris will have one of his newly-empowered  "Circuit-breaker" lockdowns in place. Yes he has said he hopes not to use them but...

At the start of September the rate is likely to be at its lowest, but by November who knows?  Our insurers won't cover a lockdown cancellation and I suspect it is no different for Warley.

 

Secondly- we have no idea how many will brave an event given the papers (such as the report in the mail earlier in this thread) are veering wildly from telling us to get out and ignore the consequences and scouring hospitals for scare stories amongst the small number of vaccinated people the virus is still managing to kill.

 

Thirdly we have had to reduce the size of the show to make wider gangways and a workable one-way system in two areas that have been dead ends in previous years.  Smaller show leads to lower entry price leads to less income per punter.

 

Fourthly we have had to cut costs down to a minimum in case hardly anyone turns up - eight of the twelve layouts are club or club member layouts that attract no expenses and the other four are local and small- ie reasonable in space requirements and the amount of expenses we will have to pay out (though they were chosen for quality first).

 

We can ASK for masks but once the punter is through the door we can not enforce masks.  We can also ask for proof of double-jabbed status but can't enforce it- and how do we know that proof is genuine?   Our venue (a club) has been informed that they can try to refuse entry but there is no backup in case of non-compliance.  Yes the police will step in - once someone has been assaulted.

 

We have also had to invest (not before time) in a contactless payment system for the door and perspex screens for the cash desk.  Getting the contactless system to work has been a bit of a nightmare, and training people to use it is ongoing.

 

One consequence of the two points above is that we haven't enough people left over for a club sales stand so that has been jettisoned.  Again less income.

 

Add in that we have to find space (outside if the weather holds) for seating for refreshments to keep the caterers happy, find someone to go round handrails and push plates etc with sanitiser and wipes at regular intervals it is a much bigger job this year to organise a much smaller show, and pull in guest stewards/operators from neighbouring clubs.

 

As a newly-retired show manager I can say the problems don't double as the size of the show doubles- the increase is nearer a factor of four.  Warley is at least 20 times the size of South Notts Show.  I'm not surprised it has been cancelled this year.  In the position of the Warley organisers I would have done the same.

 

We were lucky in 2020.  Cancelling that show with 2 weeks to go only cost us about £600.  Some of that has since been recouped by sticking items from the club sales pile onto eBay.

Les

Edited by Les1952
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Well said Les - a very thoughtful and informative response that shows how life really is from an organiser's point of view. I hope to be able to support your show and take my 5 year old grandson to his first model railway exhibition . . . . . . 

 

At Mickleover (Derby) we are planning for our show (2-3 Oct) and will soon be able to publish more details - you lead and we'll follow:D

.

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Just to say that I work at what is one of the country's leading visitor attractions and they are gradually increasing ticket sales to pre-COVID levels (7,500 per day).

 

One of the interesting things I've noticed is that although wearing face masks is no longer compulsory (it's now just requested and advised) it seems that the same number of people are still wearing them - in fact it has been suggested by some that MORE people are wearing them now that they are not compulsory (usual exemptions apply).

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Some of us won't consider it safe to simply know that most people are wearing masks at some events, at present. The fact that they can choose not to do so, when we are already there and it is thus too late to avoid the danger, makes it too risky to attend. The ridiculously lax system of self-declared, un-checked exemptions for far too many reasons also causes great concern.

 

Compulsion, for all, and enforcement are the only convincingly safe arrangements. And by the way, going back to an earlier point, there's a huge difference between an unelected regime running a  "police state",  and a democratic state with elected government using compulsion / enforcement for the purposes of ensuring that law made by and for the safety of the majority is obeyed by all.

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14 minutes ago, gr.king said:

Some of us won't consider it safe to simply know that most people are wearing masks at some events, at present. The fact that they can choose not to do so, when we are already there and it is thus too late to avoid the danger, makes it too risky to attend. The ridiculously lax system of self-declared, un-checked exemptions for far too many reasons also causes great concern.

 

Compulsion, for all, and enforcement are the only convincingly safe arrangements. And by the way, going back to an earlier point, there's a huge difference between an unelected regime running a  "police state",  and a democratic state with elected government using compulsion / enforcement for the purposes of ensuring that law made by and for the safety of the majority is obeyed by all.

 

It would have made all of our lives simpler if mask wearing had remained a legal requirement.  However it is not.  We have been informed that we can make it a condition of entry but can't enforce that condition.  As I said earlier no police implementation until someone trying to enforce it gets thumped......

 

Much easier to ask for masks.  In any case not going beyond asking makes it easier for exhibitors to remove theirs if quiet and safe to do so.  

 

All members of our club are now double-jabbed, as I understand are the volunteers from other clubs and all those traders I have spoken to (before cheerfully handing over the reins to my successor at the AGM)

 

Les

Exhibition Manager South Notts Show 2015-2021

now Clubroom Manager, Bingham MRC.

Edited by Les1952
typos...
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11 minutes ago, gr.king said:

Some of us won't consider it safe to simply know that most people are wearing masks at some events, at present. The fact that they can choose not to do so, when we are already there and it is thus too late to avoid the danger, makes it too risky to attend. The ridiculously lax system of self-declared, un-checked exemptions for far too many reasons also causes great concern.

 

Compulsion, for all, and enforcement are the only convincingly safe arrangements. And by the way, going back to an earlier point, there's a huge difference between an unelected regime running a  "police state",  and a democratic state with elected government using compulsion / enforcement for the purposes of ensuring that law made by and for the safety of the majority is obeyed by all.

Many dictatorships begin with a democratic vote and then there is a slow slip away.

 

I am not quite sure what sort of society you are looking for, but one where people voluntarily keep to the rules is always the best one, compulsion /  enforcement of rules affecting millions by a small group of police will eventually destroy goodwill and policing by consent.

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21 minutes ago, gr.king said:

Compulsion, for all, and enforcement are the only convincingly safe arrangements. And by the way, going back to an earlier point, there's a huge difference between an unelected regime running a  "police state",  and a democratic state with elected government

Who pays for the security staff to enforce it? You can’t just grab someone and take them out as they’ll claim assault. The average volunteer isn’t going to be doing it as they may well be older and less strong than the person being difficult and they aren’t there to risk physical harm themselves by seeking conflict.

Nightclubs etc provide bouncers and you pay a lot for it. With thousands through the door you could be talking 50-100+ to be dealt with so you’d need 20+ security staff and another hole in the bills. 
The decision made avoids all conflict, unknowns and extra costs so it’s just plain sensible. 
While we are at it the mumbling about financial drives in several posts need to be realistic that every show is seeking to make money. The financial aspect is to promote the hobby and part of that is securing their clubs future by raising funds to run the building and activities and layouts that reward the volunteer labour on the weekend ;) 

Edited by PaulRhB
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22 minutes ago, Les1952 said:

 

It would have made all of our lives simpler if mask wearing had remained a legal requirement.  However it is not.  We have been informed that we can make it a condition of entry but can't enforce that condition.  As I said earlier no police implementation until someone trying to enforce it gets thumped


Because to enforce would be in breach of the 2010 equality act.

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8 minutes ago, Andymsa said:


Because to enforce would be in breach of the 2010 equality act.

Mask wearing in enclosed public spaces should be made compulsory again, and I suggest that may well have become necessary be by the time Warley would have been held.

 

Venues of all kinds have been placed in an impossible position. Now that we can obtain downloaded or printed proof of vaccination without charge, there's no reason why the genuinely exempt could not be provided with similar documentation, enabling the numerous liars to be identified and refused entry.

 

Then you only need one bouncer, on the door.

 

John

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20 hours ago, fezza said:

Despite what is said by some on here I suspect that many are desperate to get to exhibitions. The Garden rail show at Peterborough sold out.

 

I suspect you are now probably more likely to die in a road accident on the way to an exhibition than catch Covid at an exhibition and die (assuming you are double vaccinated and have no underlying conditions).

Another reason to take the train…..!

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10 hours ago, Les1952 said:

Being involved in getting one of the smaller shows going for the beginning of September (South Notts on 4th and 5th at Cotgrave) there are a lot of things we have had to balance.

 

Firstly- we can't know what the infection rate will be and whether Boris will have one of his newly-empowered  "Circuit-breaker" lockdowns in place. Yes he has said he hopes not to use them but...

At the start of September the rate is likely to be at its lowest, but by November who knows?  Our insurers won't cover a lockdown cancellation and I suspect it is no different for Warley.

 

Secondly- we have no idea how many will brave an event given the papers (such as the report in the mail earlier in this thread) are veering wildly from telling us to get out and ignore the consequences and scouring hospitals for scare stories amongst the small number of vaccinated people the virus is still managing to kill.

 

Thirdly we have had to reduce the size of the show to make wider gangways and a workable one-way system in two areas that have been dead ends in previous years.  Smaller show leads to lower entry price leads to less income per punter.

 

Fourthly we have had to cut costs down to a minimum in case hardly anyone turns up - eight of the twelve layouts are club or club member layouts that attract no expenses and the other four are local and small- ie reasonable in space requirements and the amount of expenses we will have to pay out (though they were chosen for quality first).

 

We can ASK for masks but once the punter is through the door we can not enforce masks.  We can also ask for proof of double-jabbed status but can't enforce it- and how do we know that proof is genuine?   Our venue (a club) has been informed that they can try to refuse entry but there is no backup in case of non-compliance.  Yes the police will step in - once someone has been assaulted.

 

We have also had to invest (not before time) in a contactless payment system for the door and perspex screens for the cash desk.  Getting the contactless system to work has been a bit of a nightmare, and training people to use it is ongoing.

 

One consequence of the two points above is that we haven't enough people left over for a club sales stand so that has been jettisoned.  Again less income.

 

Add in that we have to find space (outside if the weather holds) for seating for refreshments to keep the caterers happy, find someone to go round handrails and push plates etc with sanitiser and wipes at regular intervals it is a much bigger job this year to organise a much smaller show, and pull in guest stewards/operators from neighbouring clubs.

 

As a newly-retired show manager I can say the problems don't double as the size of the show doubles- the increase is nearer a factor of four.  Warley is at least 20 times the size of South Notts Show.  I'm not surprised it has been cancelled this year.  In the position of the Warley organisers I would have done the same.

 

We were lucky in 2020.  Cancelling that show with 2 weeks to go only cost us about £600.  Some of that has since been recouped by sticking items from the club sales pile onto eBay.

Les

 

As has already been pointed out by Phil, the key phrase in Warley’s  press release is: ‘the ongoing perception of risk means there  are too many uncertainties to deliver a successful event in 2021’

Given the authoritative explanation from Les and the plethora of opinions here and elsewhere, they clearly had no option but to cancel. At least the burden of making the decision whether to go has been lifted from traders and nervous punters. I’m quite grateful for that.

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6 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Mask wearing in enclosed public spaces should be made compulsory again, and I suggest that may well have become necessary be by the time Warley would have been held.

 

Venues of all kinds have been placed in an impossible position. Now that we can obtain downloaded or printed proof of vaccination without charge, there's no reason why the genuinely exempt could not be provided with similar documentation, enabling the numerous liars to be identified and refused entry.

 

Then you only need one bouncer, on the door.

 

John


I don’t think any of us knows what may or may not happen in the future and can only speculate. We just have to learn live with COVID it’s here for good. 
 

even when we had to wear masks in a restaurant we could take it off at the table. Was there some sort of invisible  barrier:D the point I guess is there will be times at an exhibition like the refreshment stall that you have to remove the mask. 

 

Only one problem with providing proof of something, it leads to an industry of providing fakes. It’s already happening with COVID passports. Have a look at the dark web and some social media. 

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4 minutes ago, Andymsa said:

 

 

Only one problem with providing proof of something, it leads to an industry of providing fakes. It’s already happening with COVID passports. Have a look at the dark web and some social media. 

And possession of such an item should attract an automatic twelve months in the slammer. NO exceptions. Six months off if the offender gets jabbed while inside.

 

There comes a point where "Civil Liberties" only benefit those who take them...

 

John

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Even when mask wearing was "compulsory" it wasn't enforceable as a safeguard.  By the time you'd called the police and they'd arrived the trouble maker would have cleared off.  A lot of people wore them in such a way as not to cover their mouth/nose, so they were indeed wearing one but ineffectively.  

 

There is also still some technical discussion as to whether the non-medical grade masks were that effective anyway.  I believe the same was said of WW2 gas masks, although both were rather more plausible protection for the masses than the cold war civil defence suggestion of putting a brown paper bag over your head and taking cover under the kitchen table when the 4-minute warning goes off.

 

As far as I know there have been no criminal charges of murder/manslaughter against anybody who has given a fatal case of Covid to somebody else by their failure to comply with the rules.  If there had been a well-publicised case like that, it might have acted as a disincentive to some of the awkward squad.

 

The basic problem is that if people are determined not to conform there's not a lot you can do to make them behave reasonably, so for those who are especially vulnerable to Covid (and there's quite a lot of  folk on immunosupressants etc who don't have anti-bodies despite being double-jabbed), the decision they have to take is whether or not they will take the risk of going somewhere given that they may encounter some of the vaccine-objectors who could be carriers of the bug.  

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51 minutes ago, Andymsa said:

...

Only one problem with providing proof of something, it leads to an industry of providing fakes. It’s already happening with COVID passports. Have a look at the dark web and some social media. 

The NHS app has a Covid passport, I think it's the only valid one.

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OK - This has turned into another Covid thread - there is already one of those in Wheeltappers.

 

I think we're generating more noise than anything. The show is cancelled. Not that much more to say really.

 

Thread locked.

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