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Wantstow at Zuiderzee


RvSwol
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Good evening.

This is my first posting on this forum and I am hoping for some help and advice with this track plan.

I am currently in a transition phase from German orientated layout to a British layout.

I have not been running on scale 0 for very long, and have too many errors in my today layout

This has led to this new  layout plan "Wantstow" , which is a non-existent station , but  there are little things from the disused Terminus station Padstow .

Like the two passenger platforms, a freight shed , and the  65 Ft turntable (from Kitwood hill),  what I can use as a railway siding, given the historical pictures.

and not forgotten is the harbour track for fish and coal transhipment. 

The dimensions of the station are 5.25 metres ( 17’ 2.6 ‘’  long and 95 cm ( 3’ 1.4” wide.

The model railway is controlled with DCC with the BidiB data bus.

Also the  old but good Lenz occupancy detectors LR101 are converted to the BiDIB format by the RS Ready from Fichtelbahn.

The command centre is the new Mc2 from the firm Tams.

I am now dismantling the old layout, then i have to fill all holes with epoxy, and when everything is smooth again, the top plate is fitted with 50 mm Polystyrene rigid foam

 

Recently I was asked by a fellow Dutch  modeller,  why I didn't add two more sidings, one near the goods shed and one near the locomotive shed. ( see Wantstow plan IV ) 

But I doubt,  it will be to full.

Therefore this request I would like to have a British view on this layout.

 

Waiting for your opinion

 

Kind regards

 

Rupert van Swol

The Netherlands

 

wantstow plan IV.pdf Wantstow plan 1.pdf Operating data sheet v1.Wantstow .pdf

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To my eyes it looks a little busy. Loosing a couple of sidings would allow for unloading next to the sidings. The turntable also looks a little unlikely. A small station like this would most likely be served by tank locos, and when tender locos were used tender first running in one direction to a larger station would be a normal way of operating. 

Edited by Kris
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As the man says, inspired by Padstow, which had a turntable, and was worked by tender engines on the long North Cornwall line runs, as well as tanks to Bodmin. And even now, with no track, the place looks like a model railway.

 

The big difference is that at Padstow the sidings straggled a long way, there weren’t lots of ‘em, but they were, latterly at least, very long.

 

That having been said, I think I would steer clear of the MkIV, which really does look too crowded, and maybe even prune MkI a tiny bit.

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Welcome to the forum Rupert.

 

The Mk 1 has a better balance of track and facilities, Mark IV says to me - how much track can I get on this layout. Sometimes less is more.

 

And you even have water in it, dare I say that's typically Dutch?

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One problem you will experience if trying to operate it like Padstow is siding space for carriages. They even struggled with it at the real place, but at least they had one road for storing them!

 

The longer distance trains, notably the ACE laid-over there, so there had to be somewhere to put the carriages to allow the rest of the station to function in the evening and early morning, which was particularly important when there were trains of fish to get to London.

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  • RMweb Gold

Dear Kris and Nearholmer, thank you for your support.

Funny thing is that I go back to the first concept. In this concept the turnout just behind the crossover was not present so track 6 was dropped as well as track 1c near the locomotive shed.
I find Kris' contributions very useful , as I can turn the loco and send it to Wadebridge (fiddel yard) .
I have added a description of the tracks , ( had to translate ) but gives more insight into the concept .
I am aware that the layout looks cramped, 7 metres would be nicer. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Description of the operating points:

1.       Track 1: Train movements take place from track 1. Track 1 has a two-way use.

Towards the south, the track is used as a terminus platform for short train sets. Especially the rail bus class 122 Diesel Rail car  uses this track. To the north is the goods shed with loading ramp. To a limited extent, general cargo is stored here and also loaded onto lorries. During breaks without passenger traffic  track 1 offers a platform for the Mail and Parcel wagon (PWG 14 wagon). In addition, there is a low volume of mail from Padstow and Wadebridge. Track 1b  with the Mayer company can be reached via track 1. Very little volume is expected here, Track 1c  now removed.

 

2.       Track 2  Passenger Train movements take place from track 2. Mainline locomotives can replenish their supplies, on track 2a  diesel and water . A Coal bunker an water crane is located in the extension on track 3b . During breaks without passenger traffic, freight locomotives and the local shunt engine also use tracks 2 and 2a. Track 3 is the main transfer track for mainline locomotives from track 2a.

 

3.       Track 3 : Train movements take place from track 3. Track 3 is the central entry/exit track for freight . Arriving goods trains are either disassembled or formed by the mainline locomotive or the local shunting engine. If necessary, the mainline locomotive can take up its waiting position in track 3a. For longer stops, track 3b is also available as a waiting track. Track 3b has a useful length of 63 m including the 65ft turntable . The turntable can be used for shunting operation with track 6, 5 , 4 and track 3  If all waiting positions are occupied, the freight locomotive can also wait on track 1b in front of the locomotive shed after the supplies have been replenished. A high volume of freight may require freight wagons to be placed on track 3a as well. In this case, the mainline locomotive will reverse the goods train shortly before departure and couple the remaining freight wagons in track 3a. Here, the shortest possible blocking time of the switches has to be taken into account.

 

4.       Track 4 Is a siding and loading track for goods, can also be used as a shunting track This area is served by the resident shunting engine. At the end of track 4, wagons are loaded and unloaded at the goods shed. Track 4  has a useful length of 63 m.

 

5.       Track 5 :  on this track 5, freight wagons are made available for external loading and unloading at the loading road. Track 5  a useful length of 55 m.

6.       Track 6: removed 

7.       Track 7:   has the function of a pull-out track with a useful length of 68 m.

8.       65 Foot Turntable:  Turning Loco , can occasionally be used as a pull-out track

 

 

regards  

Itrain track layout .JPG

Shunting plan afternoon .JPG

Time table .JPG

shunting plan part 1  ( morning ) .JPG

Wantstow plan V.pdf

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I like MkV, more spacious, but would suggest that rather than access the loco shed by kickback from the bay, which will become awkward, you consider access from the main platform road, with the shed road  crossing the bay road. It will work better, and look very interesting too.

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  • RMweb Gold

Hi Rupert,

 

Plan 5 is a very conventional  way to compress a small BLT into a tight space. The bay platform is something of a cliché that appears more in models than it did in real life. The kickback engine shed off the bay will be difficult to operate.

Your suggested coaling/fueling position is a bit unconventional - you'd normally expect that to be associated with the engine shed.

 

Taking Padstow as inspiration, notice that it didn't have an engine shed or a bay platform so if you left them out of your design you could get some valuable space back for characteristic coastal scenery/buildings and/or get more space to enhance the goods facilities. It might be possible to have a loop through your goods/transshipment shed. Maybe even room for a small carriage siding.

 

You could also gain some space by allowing part(s) of the station to follow the approach curve

 

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1 hour ago, ikcdab said:

I would probably lose the turntable.

 

The turntable is clearly unpopular, but it is the essence of the Padstow feel. Padstow was a BLT for the local services, but an MLT for the trains from Exeter and London, and the tender engines were turned there. As Harlequin says, its the loco shed that isn't characteristic.

Edited by Nearholmer
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7 hours ago, Harlequin said:

The bay platform is something of a cliché

Hmm, this depends on what the bay is for.

 

There are many branch line stations where there is a bay used for goods - often the bay had a goods shed on its outer end and then the inner end often had a loading dock. The bay would be separated off from the platform itself by a fence - so it was never used for passenger traffic.

 

The other use of a "bay" is actually as a full second platform - but in this case the platform would need to be much longer and capable of taking a substantial passenger train. This kind of use is much more common in seaside resort situations, like Minehead as an example, and is required due to the extensive number of trains such places received on summer Saturdays in particular. Padstow was not like this, however.

 

Yours, Mike.

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19 minutes ago, KingEdwardII said:

Hmm, this depends on what the bay is for.

 

There are many branch line stations where there is a bay used for goods - often the bay had a goods shed on its outer end and then the inner end often had a loading dock. The bay would be separated off from the platform itself by a fence - so it was never used for passenger traffic.

 

The other use of a "bay" is actually as a full second platform - but in this case the platform would need to be much longer and capable of taking a substantial passenger train. This kind of use is much more common in seaside resort situations, like Minehead as an example, and is required due to the extensive number of trains such places received on summer Saturdays in particular. Padstow was not like this, however.

 

Yours, Mike.

 

Yes, I agree that lines in that kind of position are not always passenger bays and even if they are they are not "illegal" in models - they did occur in the real world. It's just that we modellers reach for them a bit too readily!

 

The OP says, "the track is used as a terminus platform for short train sets. Especially the rail bus class 122 Diesel Rail car", so in this case it's clearly a bay platform in the sense that I meant.

 

Although Clark shows the second platform at Minehead as a "bay" I would suggest that's a historical name from the original station layout and it's really a fully-fledged second platform, similar to Newquay, Kingswear, St Ives, etc.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

it's really a fully-fledged second platform

Yup, I agree with that. I think that's the problem - a short passenger bay is not what you tend to find in these situations.  However, there are always exceptions - Swanage today has such a short bay, although it is mainly used as a carriage storage siding.

 

Yours, Mike.

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I wonder whether all this goes back to Berrow, Charford, which, IIRC, used the ‘bay and twig’ to make life acceptably interesting, and to CJF plans that do the same, rather than to any prototype.

 

 

Edited by Nearholmer
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Hi 

 

Thank you very much for your contributions and changes,

it is refreshing and informative for me. On the continent, almost all model railways of the home riders are circular in design.

From your comments which I understand, the turntable is too dominant and has been placed illogically. 

 

The fact that I used the turntable as a pull-out is due to the historical photo of the passenger carriages parked on it.
Back to Padstow, it has a 65ft turntable and I want to use it for something.

Looking at the old  photos it is on the north side of the yard, considering the trave direction into the station.


I went back to Anyrail and moved the turntable to the top right of the paln . The curved turnout which becomes free (expensive thing) I have reused, whereby the three-way switch has disappeared.

I use a fixed crossing from platform 2 to the turntable.    (On that piece it is quite crammed with turnouts and crossings).

On Nearholmer's advice I moved the station building and extended the tracks.

The overnight stay of the 8 Altlantic express wagons is possible on track 3 .

The harbour it is moved to the east , a siding has been added to transfer the load of the wagons to the ship's.

 

For possible language errors my sincere Exuus, There is no translation dictionary English <> Dutch with railway termilogy.

 

Attached is the Wantstow 7 layout on which the first changes have been made.

 

Wantstow Mark 1 is the new  layout plan,  where the turntable is moved and switch track is changed. 
I welcome any comments

With kind regards,
Rupert van Swol 

IMG_1484.JPG

Wantstow Mark 1.pdf Wantstow V7.pdf

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I much prefer the turntable in its new position.  However, it will be difficult to access for a loco that has just run round its train, with the platform road occupied by carriages.  Below is an alternative arrangement that allows access to the loco sidings regardless of what is in the station.  It also creates a longer bay which may allow the ACE to be stabled there without blocking the runround. Points A moved closer to the slip to give longer sidings.

 

Studio_20210810_140546.png.098d13f419f610cc53210eee6eb70cd8.png

 

 

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Dear Flying Pig,
Thank you for your corrections, I have processed them immediately. It all looks calmer. It is a pity that Lenz does not offer long turnouts. But I have incorporated your idea as well as possible. 44.4 cm was the gain in length on the freight track, that's 2 extra wagons on the track.  
Kind regards,
Rupert 

Wantstow Mark1a.pdf

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Hello Forum members,
I am overwhelmed by your wonderful responses and advice, thank you for that.
I have read your contributions time and time again and incorporated them into the current layout plan. 

 

I do have the question where to put the possibility to get diesel fuel for the Class 08 and Class 122.
And to load coal for the small steam locomotives Class 58 and the Pannier Tank engine.  
Since the locomotive shed is definitely gone, I am looking for a logical place for this. Can the coal loading take place on track 6a far away from the tracks 1 and 2.
And can the diesel pump just be placed a longside  to track 1. 
I myself had thought that the Royal Mail coach can be loaded and unloaded on track 3a instead of at the end of track 1 as was the case before.

That gives a playful shunting possibility.
Today I started dismantling the old track. I want to reuse some parts, such as the blue dredger crane for coal transfer and the Pecco crane. The German equipment I can just use on the club track. 

 

Picture of the disused station in my attic, tracks are already being removed. 

 

 

 

IMG_0037.jpg.a0a4701d72a68ceb6b6a02b82d67ef7a.jpg

IMG_0034.JPG

IMG_0032.JPG

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Water for steam locos: you probably need a water tower and two water-cranes, one at the departure end of the platform, one on the turntable shunting neck.

 

Coal for locos: possibly a small "top up" coaling stage on the turntable neck.

 

Diesel fuel: none. The railcar would be fueled at the shed/depot each night, and the 08 would go there (very slowly) once a week or once a fortnight. I personally don't know where diesels were fueled in the Padstow area, presumably the Western Region provided a facility at Wadebridge once they took over.

 

Royal Mail: almost always loaded/unloaded at the passenger platform. Only places with main GPO sorting offices had dedicated mail platforms, and it was always handled by Post Office, not railway, staff. There were even separate barrows, painted red and with GPO fleet numbers, for the task if the station had more mail traffic that could easily be carried by hand. In many places, the GPO vans backed onto the platform, and mail bags and parcels were thrown direct from train to van.

 

This painting shows the scene at a London terminus, so you probably need only one or two vans and some barrows, but the principle was the same in most places, and it was fascinating to watch.

 

 

17793141-B620-4AD6-9FB4-C98BFECF7118.jpeg

Edited by Nearholmer
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The station at Preston was a little strange then, with a separate set of platforms for parcel traffic but mail sacks being off-loaded on Platforms 3 and 4 and attached to a sack conveyor that carried them across the tracks to the main sorting office where the mail was unbagged and sorted then rebagged for putting out by roads or carried back to the conveyor to head to platforms 3/4. Mail was also loaded onto Brutes and driven down the curved ramp on platform 3/4, through the subway from 3/4 to lifts on the other platforms to go by train to East Lancs (used to be platforms 5/6)  or West Lancs (used to be platforms 1/2).

Ian_B

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