Wantstow at Zuiderzee

[RvSwol]

Hi Mike,
I am and will remain a Dutchman, if I look at what is not coming back on the layout it is a lot, including the 3-way switch, and that hurts. As it is a top product of Pecco, built for the lenz rail system I placed the turn loop to see if it can reach a part of the freight yard network for the transshipment of hydrocarbons, without losing the length of tracks 3a and 3. As you always want to keep hydrocarbons far away from sources of open fire like steam locomotives, I inserted a kink of 3.5 degrees.

In this way I can also use my tank wagon e.g. to load a truck, and a small fuel tank installation for the Class 08 diesel locomotive. I could build this on track 3b instead of the scrap yard. 
But the feeling of "too full" always creeps up on me. 

your vision on this 
 

[Ian_B]

Rupert,

As ever, Rule 1 applies. It's your railway make it look the way you want! Other opinions do not count.

Ian_B

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, RvSwol said:

Hi Mike,
I am and will remain a Dutchman, if I look at what is not coming back on the layout it is a lot, including the 3-way switch, and that hurts. As it is a top product of Pecco, built for the lenz rail system I placed the turn loop to see if it can reach a part of the freight yard network for the transshipment of hydrocarbons, without losing the length of tracks 3a and 3. As you always want to keep hydrocarbons far away from sources of open fire like steam locomotives, I inserted a kink of 3.5 degrees.

In this way I can also use my tank wagon e.g. to load a truck, and a small fuel tank installation for the Class 08 diesel locomotive. I could build this on track 3b instead of the scrap yard. 
But the feeling of "too full" always creeps up on me. 

your vision on this 
 

 

Too full for me too Rupert    I think we'd have to go a long way to find a 3 way used in that sort of position on a British track layout adjacent to a passenger station run round loop.

[Sabato]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

Too full for me too Rupert    I think we'd have to go a long way to find a 3 way used in that sort of position on a British track layout adjacent to a passenger station run round loop.

 

Chard Town - run round release and second access to the goods shed.

[RvSwol]

Mike was right. 
I put the plan in 3 D mode, to look at it from a different perspective.
That 3 way switch is so distracting in the picture and so removed. 
Personally I think this plan is sufficiently crystallized. More rails on a surface of 5.25 meter by 0.95 meter give a more restless image and adds very little. 

 

I am now orienting myself on the buildings and other railway stuff. 
I also found a photo of the rectangular water tower.  

Also looking for a technical drawing of a wooden British goods shed. 

Continue with the dismantling of the old layout. 

To be continued,

kind regards 

[The Stationmaster]

I still don't like the goods yard although that lack of capacity and accessibility to  wagons is a common failing of model railway layouts.  

 

Our local station (still open for passenger trains) was closed to goods traffic c.1964/5  and was still reasonably busy until the goods service was withdrawn.  Basically two sidings, one for the goods shed and another for full loads mileage traffic,  plus an end dock and cattle dock accessed by one of the passenger platforms.  And even in teh early 1960s it wasn't unusual to see anything like 20-30 wagons on hand (including coal) - to serve a town of c.10.000 people plus nearby villages.

[Harlequin]

I think it would be realistic to continue siding 4 right across the back of the goods shed. I've seen this done at a couple of real-world GWR goods yards - Lampeter springing to mind most immediately.

 

The ground level would be built up to allow vehicles to drive across the track to back up to the loading bay.

 

It creates an extra complication for the yard manager - he has to avoid conflicts between road and rail vehicle movements but nothing that can't be handled.

 

[DCB]

A quick and very crude doodle.   Going on from Harlequins suggestion I would tweak the plan by putting the goods shed on the upper road and extending it to full length. The G/S would hide the platform end a bit but run round uncoupling takes place to the right of the loop point so its no real issue vision wise,   

I would lengthen the bay by pushing the buffer stops back a coach length and move the turntable point towards the right.  Ideally shove the TT into the corner more to allow room for a signal box where the loop diverges.

If you need a coal road then have a separate spur off the TT ( shown)  or indeed an engine shed a la Swanage but I wouldn't.

I tweaked the kick back to become a coal siding by starting the curve right off the slip and making it larger radius. A fence between siding and main line would satisfy Health and Safety.   Equally on the theme of radius's the inner track does not need a smaller radius than the outer, so reducing the H/S outer radius to the same as the inner the point can be moved out of the scenic area.  The "Middle" road served by a standard  R/H turnout instead of the 3 way  becomes a wagon or two longer and there is room for an extra kick back loco spur.

Tracks remain a bit close to the baseboard edge but so do mine and have done for 30 odd years with out much disaster but there is a 40mm or so "Lip"

I don't like the Level crossing, with a main road, too far from the SB but too close to justify a gate box I would just have it as a Goods yard approach myself.   Anyway just a few suggestions not of the "I would buy a bigger house/shed/ change gauge, use the garden/take up  fishing/Skydiving/cycling instead variety.  Discuss. Enjoy.

[RvSwol]

7 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I still don't like the goods yard although that lack of capacity and accessibility to  wagons is a common failing of model railway layouts.  

 

Hello Mike , I agree with you.

Because of your finding, I found that I had placed the largest length and width of my German freight wagons in the drawing.
I had another Pecco wagon without a chassis and took over the length and dimensions. Ok it's not 20 but on the extended track 4 , now 15 wagons fit including the Pannier . I made a picture of a pre war G3 which is in 1:43 scale with the Pecco scale 0 also in 1:43, see the length difference. 

7 hours ago, Harlequin said:

I think it would be realistic to continue siding 4 right across the back of the goods shed. I've seen this done at a couple of real-world GWR goods yards - Lampeter springing to mind most immediately.

 

Thank you Phil for this contribution , indeed the more length , the more effectiveness of the freight yard . That will indeed be well tuned with the loadingmaster, 

 

6 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

A quick and very crude doodle.   Going on from Harlequins suggestion I would tweak the plan by putting the goods shed on the upper road and extending it to full length.

Thank you David for your contributions, I looked at your drawing, I did not understand  the intention offthe Coal Train. Here too was the setting up of e.g. Coal wagons to see how many wagons on the track actually could accommodate, with space to uncouple.

But the safety aspect by means of a fence I found a welcome addition.

Track 1 has been shortened.

Platform 1 can no longer be used also here for safety a fence. 

Extending track 4 is definitely necessary. 
The location of the goods shed has been shifted to the north. More instinctively, the view of the points can be obstructed as the track is at a height of 1.03 metres. But I still have to build the goods shed. I am still looking for a drawing .

Oh yes Almost forgot, moving the turnout more towards the Fiddel Yard was gold. I made a temporary partition of a tunnel, but a subway by a road is also possible. Well then the three-way switch goes on sale at Ebay. 

 

kind regards 

Rupert 

Edited August 17, 2021 by RvSwol
Double pictures

[The Stationmaster]

I like the bottom one most - definitely the most flexible track layout.

[RvSwol]

10 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

I like the bottom one most - definitely the most flexible track layout.

Given Phil station master's comment Yesterday , about too limited goods handling in some model railway plans.

 

I got the idea to add more types of transhipment, like a small coal depot,  where two wagons can be transhipped by crane into trucks, which is has also a small coal loading point for the small steam locos.

The class 08 diesel engine gets its fuel from this  Coal loading site,  but is refuelled from the tanker truck.

 

On the far left at the end of track 4, I created  a small ramp in mind,  for loading life stock into a livestock wagon. 

 

To reach the coal transfer point, Track 5 can be crossed made of wooden planks between the rails.

I have placed a truck on top for the dimension size.

 

Platform X ( northside ) has been shortened and has no longer a passenger function, hence the fence.

I have doubted for a long time to make this track a bit longer for the combined use with a Railcar.

But I abandoned that plan. 

 

The turntable and the tunout have been moved, which is now just behind the curved turnout.

The slight curve is unfortunately unavoidable. 

 

The freight station has a connecting track 3b which serves the tracks 3, 4 and 5.

Track 3b is now extended as the level crossing has been removed.

Track 3b has a length capacity of 10 wagons see picture .
So after arrival of a freight train on track 3, track 3  can be cleared immediately. 
Also the wagons of the ACE (5 wagon length) can be parked there temporarily. 
There will be no locomotive shed ,  

So much for the state of development of Wantstow RD , kind regards,
Rupert 
 

[The Stationmaster]

You do now have something of a shunting conundrum.  The freight train would arrive at the passenger platform because in mist cases that is what the signalling wopuld allow v but more importantly, albeit by only one or two wagons, that gives the longest run round and that is what sets the maximum length of your trains on arrival.

 

So the train arrives and the engine runs round and it can then shunt the goods yard - probably first placing the brakevan on the run round loop ready to form the departing freight train onto it.  with teh engine at that end you can shunt both your long freight sidings and - in the real world - wagons could be moved to/from you coal depot siding using a pinchbar.   Once the incoming wagons are in position and the outbound wagns are shunted onto the brakevan your freight train can depart.  there will not be any sort of local shunting engine the shunting will be mainly done by the engine which brought in the freight train and which will take it out.  No such thing as a Kleinlok at most British stations.

 

any vehicles put in your long siding towards teh site of the level crossing will require an engine to do it before running round or it would have to run round in order to position them after pulling them out of the siding.  Ni ot impossible and all plenty of operating 'fun' for you to enjoy.  But you need to understand that is what you will have to do.

[RvSwol]

21 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

 and - in the real world - wagons could be moved to/from you coal depot siding using a pinchbar.  

 

The more I study this layout and the train movements that take place on it, I am increasingly aware of my lack of knowledge of the history and origins of British Railways.

 

I assumed too easily that where railways were invented Great Britain was copied to, and by the countries on the continent. 

I have been looking for the so-called brake car in the Netherlands and Germany. 

 

Apparently the Westinghouse break system quickly gained a foothold on the continent. 

The brakeman became redundant at the end of the 19th century when the continuous air brake (westinghouse brake) made it possible to operate the brakes of all the vehicles of a train from the locomotive. It took several decades before all railway vehicles were equipped with such a brake,  and the brakeman was definitely a thing of the past.

Very instructive this journey of discovery  but but I do not understand what a pinchbar does or works. Can't get it to translate. Is it a kind of crowbar

 

kind regards 

Rupert 

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

A pinchbar is basically a long steel bar looking very much like a crowbar and it was (is?) used as a lever under a wagon wheel to get a wagion moving without the use of a loco or horse or something else such as a capstan.  The first problem a human being has when trying to move a railway wagon without any assistance from such things as a horse etc is to get the vehicle rolling and a pinchbar provides the necessary leverage under a wagon wheel to get it started.  Once the wagon is moving on level track it can easily be pushed by a cuple of men and the problem then becomes one of stopping it - which is done using the wagon's handbtrake.

 

Most small goods yards and depots were serviced by only one trains, or in some cases two trains, everyday and whiel these did the initial placement of wagons and removed any which were ready to go that was all they did before moving on to teh next station.  But wagons being loaded or unloaded might need to be moved along a siding, or more often through a goods shed so that other wagons could be dealt with, so the local staff had to do this.  Some places had shunting horses but teh vast majority os small stations didn't so the quickest and easiest way to move a wagon was to use a pinchbar - cheap and very effective.

 

British freight wagons generally did not have any sort of automatic brake such as the Westinghouse or the more common (In Britain) vacuum brake but they had a n ahndbrake.  by teh early 20th century vacuum brakes were being added to some wagons used for goods (merchandise) but teh overwhelming majority of wagons still only had handbrakes right up until the 1960s.  So freight trains had to havea brakevan, waitha. Guard manning it , on the rear to provide some braking poewwer and to make sure the train remained complete without any breakaways or to carry out the necessary action when there was a breakaway.  all very different from teh way things evolved on the European mainland.

 

You might find thos interesting about goods depots -

 

https://historicengland.org.uk/images-books/publications/railway-goods-shed-and-warehouse-in-england/the-railway-goods-shed-and-warehouse/

[RvSwol]

 

 

3 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

You might find thos interesting about goods depots -

Many thanks for the detailed explanation,  and this link " Mike " , I have now also found a building plan of a goods shed. about 66 cm long , can easily be shortened to 44.5 cm, equal to the rail length of Lenz. 19.8 metres . Going to put it in the drawing to see if it fits. 

 

regards

 

Rupert 

[The Stationmaster]

And even better - a figure with a pinchbar 

[RvSwol]

Today, after taking a deep breath, I started with the removal of the rails and  started with the construction of "Wantstow".

 

I made a small mutation to keep an option open for a second "Turn a round".
 

Kind regards,
Rupert. 

[5BarVT]

That’s a new way of getting track in line.

Clever!

Paul.

[RvSwol]

 

Hello Forum Menbers 

Work continued last weekend on "Wantstow". All the old rails could be reused. The last work was the placement of two custom rail pieces.

A lot of work went into making the top of the rails exactly horizontal. At one spot, a 1.8 mm filler piece had to be placed over a length of 63 cm.

This was also done with the help of a laser.

Then came the check on the free profile. And here I did not come out well. But this was quickly solved,  by removing the protection plate.

Here I will glue a piece on the outside so that a possible derailment in the curve with a chance of falling is prevented.

 

The next question arises does it all fit.

Especially the yet to be built goods shed and the 65 ft turntable that has been waiting for customs clearance for now  11 days.

 

The large outer dimensions of the turntable was cut out of an IkEA subfloor, and for the goods shed the dimensions were plotted on the location.

I have not forgotten the remark of "Station Master",  how they used to work , and yes, there is work space for the man with the Pinchbar. 

The red line is the free profile of track zero 1:45.

The coming days will be all about soldering the DCC Rail Droppers to the occupied detection ( BiDiB ) .

To be continued,

 

with kind regards,

 

Rupert van Swol

[RvSwol]

Today I started with the study of the freight shed.

To get the feel of it, I converted the freight shed to millimetre scale 1:43.

And put it on the model Yard

 

Was amazed at how big it is,  to store two  cargo wagons.

I have the strong impression that the standard kits,  fiddle a lot with the scale sizes.

In my experience they look much smaller. Or am I wrong? 
 

[RvSwol]

Today I bought 10 bags each of 100 bamboo sticks with 3 bottles of "Tacky Glue" in a non food discount shop for less than 7 pounds. 
The sticks have a length of 140 mm, a width of 5 mm and a thickness of 1.5 mm.
One side is flat, the other has a very slight curve to it, but can hardly be seen.

It is possible to bend a stick with a 180-degree turn without breaking. 

It can be easily cut with a pair of side trimmers without the edges being dented, which is the case with spruce.

Safety goggles are recommended when cutting.                 

[RvSwol]

Today I worked further, behind the shed I placed another platform.

 

 Possibly with the crane it will be a loading location for goods that do not go through the shed.  

Also thinking of loading cattle, but then a ramp needs to be added.

Most of the work today was making bricks., and making a negative mould for a Typical cornwall brick wall.

With the negative mould I can make bricks in High Density foam (styrodur).

It's heavy work, because you have to press hard. The first result is very nice. 

Tomorrow I will continue with gluing the strips.  

[Harlequin]

Hi Rupert,

Since the design phase is finished maybe this thread would be better moved to Layout Topics now?

If you ask @AY Mod nicely he will move it for you.

 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Harlequin

[RvSwol]

Hello Phil,
I think moving to another forum is a great idea.

I would like to express a thanks to the forum members for their patience and contributions that helped create this track plan " wantstow". 

 

Dapol meets 1:45 German T3.
It is strange that the buffers are at the same height,  

 

 

[RvSwol]

Since the design phase has been completed after much input from the forum members,  and the realisation has started,  the thread " Would like to have a Britsch vieuw on this layout "  was moved from Layout & Track design to the section Layout Topics , and continued under the name Wantstow at Zuiderzee. 

 

Kind regards,
Rupert