DR4018, Z21 and MP1 point motors.

[Wear Valley Wanderer]

I'm hoping some kind soul can help me work out how to program the Z21 controller (The black one) to run the Digikeijs DR4018 with the MTB MP1 point motors. On paper they look like a marriage made in heaven, but so far I can only get one working. Anything else runs constantly left to right, left to right, etc. until you physically switch it all off.

 

I believe this may be down to the universal setting for CV47, however I've found that the instructions for the DR4018 refer to the old Z21 app which is no longer supported, and when I try to program it via the new app it tells me it's unable to find anything under the address 9999, which the DR4018 uses. I'm trying to program the DR4018 to universally use value 6 under CV47 which is supposedly the correct one for this type of point motor. I've got 24 of these motors and three DR4018's, but only one is wired in and three point motors on the layout thus far. I've checked the wiring numerous times and they're all wired up the same way.  

 

Every Youtube video I've watched has some elements of how to do it, but they always leave bits out or have a slightly different set up.

 

Can someone explain to me in simple terms how to do this? 

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

 

 

[WIMorrison]

Change the DR4018 to Preset 6, set the DR4018 to the turnout addresses that you want, connect up the MP1 and that’s it.

 

they work perfectly with your setup, it is what I am using

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by WIMorrison

[Wear Valley Wanderer]

I've been trying to change CV47 to 6, but for some reason it's not doing anything.

 

I don't suppose you could 'talk' me through how you did it?

Edited August 10, 2021 by Wear Valley Wanderer

[WIMorrison]

1. connect the power and dcc terminals together with jumper wires

2. connect the dcc ( or power) to the track

3. open Z21 Maintenance App and connect to Z21

4. go to CV Programming Tab and enter Loco 9999 and check that POM is selected

5. enter CV number (47) and Value (6)

6. press programming button on DR4018

6. Select Write

 

 

You then need to set the start address for the DR4018 which you can also do using Z21 Maintenance app, or whatever device you are using to change the turnouts. Simply press the programming button, switch the turnout number of the first turnout for that specific dr4018.

 

You can also do this using the Z21 app on your phone, just ensure that you choose loco 9999 and choose Program on Main. I prefer using the Z21 Maint Program as I show above

 

Rinse and repeat this for all the DR4018

 

 

[Wear Valley Wanderer]

Thanks. As good as it looks I don't think I'll be able to use the maintenance programme as it's only for PC, and not an android app. 

 

I'll give it another go on my tablet. Failing that I'll see if my old laptop's working and take that into the loft.

 

Fingers crossed 

[WIMorrison]

As I said you can do the same using the app, just easier with the maint program - which allows you to do much more than the app

[KingEdwardII]

Just to emphasise one thing:

 

- for both setting CV 47 and for setting the start turnout address of the DR4018, you must press the programming button on the DR4018 at the points indicated above (the steps are also spelled out in the DR4018 manual under 3.1 & 3.2)

- and the red LED on the DR4018 must light up - and stay on until you have completed the programming step

 

If this does not happen you will be wasting your time - the DR4018 is only "listening" when the red LED is on. (Ask how I know this.  ). Sometimes, it fails - simply try again.

 

Yours, Mike.

 

PS I have >30 MP1 motors driven via DR4018 units - it can be done!!

[Wear Valley Wanderer]

I must have been doing something fundamentally wrong. 

 

I'm going to try resetting the DR4018 to factory settings, check the wiring is bang on and try again following the above steps to the letter. 

 

 

[WIMorrison]

Are you certain you are using Program on Main when your are sending the commands and CV settings? Also make sure you press the program button on the DR4018 - I have 32 of these units running on a Z21 using DR4018 and I can assure you that it works, as do the instructions in the manual  

[Dungrange]

This might be a silly question, but why is an accessory decoder (ie the DR4018) programmed using a locomotive address (ie 9999)?  I expected this to be an accessory address, but from the detailed instructions above, that's clearly not the case.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Dungrange

[WIMorrison]

Why? Because that is the way they do it, and IIRC Uhlenbrock and others also do it like this on some of their stuff. I know that DK is not unique in doing it this way to set CVs and TBH it isn't hard to do

 

[Wear Valley Wanderer]

Well, as I suspected, it really was a simple fix after all. Hopefully this will be of help to anyone else who is left scratching their head over these things, particularly if they're new to DCC like myself. Please note that this was all programmed 'ON THE MAIN' (Aka POM).

 

1. I checked the wiring diagram which comes with the motors and made sure everything followed the diagram exactly. It's very easy to follow.

 

2. I made sure the DR4018 was linked from Power to Signal, and from there to the Bus wires (As per the PDF instructions). I had been using an external 12v source which the PDF instructions for the DR4018 suggests you can. The fellow from DCC Train Automation didn't think it was a good idea, so I ditched the external power supply in case it was causing an issue.

 

3. I followed the instructions in the PDF for resetting the DR4018 to factory settings. I did this in case I'd made some sort of bizarre cock-up I wasn't aware of when I'd been playing with the thing. 

 

4. When this was done I switched the whole system off for 30 seconds then back on. This step is not clear in the instructions, but I have read on line that the DR4018 won't recognise what you've done unless you power it off after being programmed. Probably a bit like restarting your computer after a change.

 

5. I programmed the first point motor as per the PDF instructions. It was wired into OUT1 on the DR4018. Worked fine, no problem.

 

6. Again, as per the PDF instructions I changed CV47 to value 6. This is the universal value recommended for the MP1 motor. Again, powered off for 30 seconds and restarted.

 

This next step is where things had been going wrong, and revealed a hidden problem that I hadn't expected.

 

7. The next point was wired into OUT2 on the DR4018. Using the Z21 App on my tablet, I added a point to the visual representation of my layout. IMPORTANT: Don't press program for each successive point! Just add a point on the app and the DR4018 should recognise it automatically. To be clear, only the first point motor (Wired into OUT1) needs to be programmed.

 

That's it. Except in my case I found that the OUT3 terminal on my DR4018 unit is faulty. Any point motor wired into this is constantly whirring back and forth without any input from the user. The rest of the terminals work fine, so for now I've simply used the rest and left OUT3 disconnected. Disappointing that I can only use 7 of the 8 terminals, but I'll give the place I bought it from a shout as it may still be under warranty.

 

Hope that's cleared that up. Thanks to everyone who gave advice, it really was invaluable. 

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

[KingEdwardII]

1 hour ago, Wear Valley Wanderer said:

To be clear, only the first point motor (Wired into OUT1) needs to be programmed.

Indeed - what you are doing at that stage is setting the START address of the outputs of the DR4018 as a whole.

 

So, if you set the START address for a given DR4018 unit to, say, 101, then the 8 point motor outputs then have the addresses:

 

101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108

 

You only need to do this once for a particular DR4018 unit.

 

Sorry to hear that you have a faulty output - I'd aim for a replacement. From what you report, it seems that both wires for that output have a voltage applied to them all the time - the normal situation using CV47 = 6 is that only one of those wires has a voltage applied and that sending a switching command causes the voltage to be switched to the other wire for that output. Have you tried sending a switching command to the defective output? 

 

Yours, Mike.

[RobinofLoxley]

I am in the same position as the original poster here but I dont seem to have had the same results trying to follow the instructions. I am using for the moment my Galaxy phone to communicate with the Z21.

 

Eight point motors are wired in to the DR4018.

 

I seem to have defined a 'loco' address 9999 correctly, but thats about all. I have done some things, and at one stage the motor on Out1 did move, but thats all.

 

The first step according to the instruction 3.2 instruction 2 is to select the loco 9999, switch it on and off via F0 (light). Theres no other reference to F0, which is a bit irritating. So in 'Steering' I have selected the loco 9999 then deselected it. (there is one other loco identified, which is not on the track, this is selected by default instead. So with 9999 deselected I turn the programming button on (instruction 3) then select CV programming (instruction 4). Its not stated what to do here but i have selected CV Pogramming/POM accessory/Manual, when I am prompted for an address 1-2048. The turnout associated with Out1 has an address of 73. So I entered 73, then selected CV47 and entered the value 6. I noted that at this point the DCC decoder address value was reading 18.

 

I then pressed the programming button so the light went out. I disconnected the power, waited, powered up again but none of the motors show any signs of life.

 

Clearly I'm doing at least one thing wrong so I hope someone can enlighten me.

 

The galaxy isnt that great as it runs on the earliest version of Android that is permitted by the App. It does stop occassionally, but I havnt had any problem so far controlling the single converted loco that I have while I test the sections of track I have laid so far. I know i need a better interface and im planning to get a tablet, jst hasnt happened yet,

 

One of the disadvantages of having a summer hobby separate to the modelling is that I havnt had enough practice with DCC stuff yet to really embed it in my brain. So it was like starting from scratch today.

[WIMorrison]

You set CV47=6 using loco address 9999 and Program on Main,  you set the starting accessory address by sending a turnout address to the DR4018  - in your case Turnout 73.

 

 

[RobinofLoxley]

Ok Iain will check that out tomorrow, thanks

 

Would you advise me to reset the dr4018 first?

 

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by RobinofLoxley

[WIMorrison]

I find it much easier to do it using a PC with the Z21 software on it

[RobinofLoxley]

probably, but I would like to establish that i can do it on the phone first. Otherwise I'm introducing something new when I havnt got the previous system sorted. I have got the Maintenance app on my laptop but as I havnt tried to use it yet.......

[WIMorrison]

Yes, you will have to reset the DR4018 as you don’t know what state it is in now.

[RobinofLoxley]

Well, a bit later than I expected, no success. As far as i can see I have registered loco 9999 correctly, but using the app in CV programming/Loco (POM) I get the message 'No locomotive found with this address' . ( I have only 1 actual loco registered, which is recognised and can be operated normally - its the one Im using for troubleshooting the track as I build it). Hence I tried the manual/POM accessory route before. 

 

Also, I cant connect properly via the maintenance app. But one thing at a time....

[WIMorrison]

To use the Z21 app you must choose CV Programming, Manual, Program on Main(POM) and enter 9999

 

You do not need to create a loco

[RobinofLoxley]

Sorry to be a nuisance. I have entered 9999 in the loco address field, then 8 in the CV8 field, (DR4018 prog button on) then 8 in the Set CV field, which gets the message 'Could not read CV value for selected loco address or CV address

[WIMorrison]

You are not reading CV8 to reset the unit, you should be writing to the DR4018.

 

I have to be honest and say that I have never tried to program a DR4018 using the Z21 App, but I have used it for locos and other accessories without issue.

 

i *think* I have a spare DR4018 in a drawer and will try resetting it in the morning using the app and confirm that it works. I will also set it to preset Mode 6 to again confirm definitively that this can be done with the app.

[WIMorrison]

Just to close this off a DR4018 can be programmed correctly using the Z21 Application when you use CV Programming, (then) Manual, (then) Program on Main(POM) and then enter 9999 as the Loco address. Setting CV8=8 does reset the unit back to default, and setting CV47=6 does set it correctly for the MP1 motors.

 

You CANNOT read the CVs as the DR4018 does not support reading of CVs.

[RobinofLoxley]

Just to tidy this thread up, should anyone be working with same or similar items of equipment, there could be some benefit from my experience, or maybe I have just had some unusual combination of circumstances.

 

The first point is that since there is no feedback from the DR4018's, the programming light is the only thing that gives you any indication anything has happened. If your point motors dont work at this point, dont do as I did and assume that the programming has been unsuccessful but check the point motors and their wiring out instead.

 

Second, I would say that the safest approach is to wire in one single motor to the out1/2 connector, only. Once the PM is installed, loosen the two holding screws on the motor slide, and check that the slide will either move to the full extent of the tie bar travel of the point, or, if it is restricted by the starting position of the point motor itself, that if the point motor were to start it would carry the slide in the right direction. This is important because its possible that the first time the PM is operated that it will be trying to move in the wrong direction depending on the configured  state of the PM in the Control Station function of the z21 app. In that case it wont do anything, and I suspect it will prevent anything happening on any output - this seems to be what happened to me on the second of the 2 Dr4018's I have just installed and equipped with 8 PM's.  I had all 8 wired in and none would run until the first one was working properly, despite as it turned out, CV47 being correctly set.

 

Then operate the PM with the slide loose and check the correspondence of position with the control station when you tighten the slide. Once the slide is going the same way as the control station has it, it should operate correctly.

 

If the PM is still not starting on command, it is then worth giving the cables a bit of a play, where they are attached to the connecting blocks of the MP1. I discovered this way (although a multimeter (voltage) test on the terminals might find the same thing, that out of 16PM's that I have, four had slightly loose pin connectors - each connecting block has three pins that should be soldered inside the MP1 housing, except that on opening the MP1 up they were slightly loose, which I fixed (iain Morrison's advice, again) by remelting the solder spots while pressing on the connecting blocks, so that the pin could move towards the solder. Three MP1s worked perfectly after I did this. There remained one MP1 where the pins seemed loose in the connecting block end, all I could do with this one apart from sending it back, was ensure that there was no load on the connecting cable, so the cable doesnt hang or anything. Since the connecting cable was fixed in place, its been OK, although there hasnt been a massive amount of operating going on.

 

Thanks again to Iain Morrison for supporting over the phone when I was starting to think about looking for a new hobby!