Sonic Models OO Gauge Robinson A5

[PenrithBeacon]

14 hours ago, Mark Dickerson said:

I really must paint the end of those Grafar 00 non-corridors red to stand in for LT Dreadnoughts...

https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/1000389/1000588/1000636/1446726/hornby_oo_gauge_1_76_scale_coaches/prodlist.aspx?showpreowned=false&pageid=1

[The Black Hat]

On 11/08/2021 at 14:34, BMacdermott said:

Hello everyone

 

Congratulations to Sonic on this announcement.

 

The class has been High Polling in the 00 Wishlist Polls since 2013.

 

We wish them every success with the project!

 

Brian (on behalf of the 00 Poll Team)

Following on from Brian and the polls comments. 

I did some analysis of the poll results two or so years ago to look to see where the general demand was for various types (mainly to see if ones I liked stood a good chance of being made). The A5 tank engine polled most popular for all GC engines that had a origin in that pre-grouping company. If the poll were run again in the same format, GC would take a massive hit in its seen popularity (as happens every time a lead engine is made). In fact, there will not be many, if any at all, from the GC area that will pick up the mantle. 

 

However, the strength of A5 will be that it is requested in other areas and thus pushed higher - so while its great to see the A5 made (and its a very shrewd choice) the advantage for the model will be is that it will happily sit alongside other areas traction over the time it was in service.  So overall, I think the A5 is a great choice, perhaps with the like of the A8 to follow but that overall this proves that across the Eastern region there are many other types that will generate great interest and thus also sell well. 
 

Edited August 13, 2021 by The Black Hat

[Helmdon]

1 hour ago, The Black Hat said:

Is there any massive detail differences between the two?

bit of a minefield this one depending on period - the last batch, which is the A5/2 were built with the lower dome and chimney that (some of) the others got later, but were otherwise built to the GC loading gauge.

 

However, as A5/1s were displaced by (Thompson) L1s from the GC routes, that was the point that they tended to be brought within the wider loading gauge rather than the GC one. 

 

Frankly, it's the sort of thing where an expert will be able to spot the difference, but the semi-interested layman won't.

[Edwardian]

Looking at the GCR livery one, it looks like one of the later builds, 1917 IIRC, and, I think the presence of the top feed, which was not fitted, I think, when the early class members were built, but introduced later by Robinson, suggests to me that back-dating the model via a change of identity would not work. Does anyone know when 9Ns were first seen with top feeds?

 

I seldom venture into the post-WWI pre-Grouping world, but here I find I am, and this is sensible, because the condition of the Sonic 9N does make the model a suitable companion for the Bachmann Improved Director, which, of course, was a post-War class. 

 

 

[Helmdon]

18 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Looking at the GCR livery one, it looks like one of the later builds, 1917 IIRC, and, I think the presence of the top feed, which was not fitted, I think, when the early class members were built, but introduced later by Robinson, suggests to me that back-dating the model via a change of identity would not work. Does anyone know when 9Ns were first seen with top feeds?

 

I seldom venture into the post-WWI pre-Grouping world, but here I find I am, and this is sensible, because the condition of the Sonic 9N does make the model a suitable companion for the Bachmann Improved Director, which, of course, was a post-War class. 

 

 

 

It's a great time to be a GC modeller - I almost wish I was doing pre-grouping GC, but happy enough with the 1950s (and too much stock to change now)

[t-b-g]

58 minutes ago, Helmdon said:

 

It's a great time to be a GC modeller - I almost wish I was doing pre-grouping GC, but happy enough with the 1950s (and too much stock to change now)

 

I started modelling the GCR in pre-grouping times because I like making things and it seemed a bit of a waste of effort making things that could be bought RTR.

 

So I have gradually gone back in time from the BR period, to the LNER days, then back to pre WW1 due to the rise of RTR for later periods.

 

The RTR support for the GCR has so far been a Director, two limited edition models in the J11 and O4 and now the A5. There are some "Generic" carriages in a livery which would never have been seen with either the D11 or the A5. Other than that, has there been anything produced?

 

So it is still not possible to build an authentic GCR layout without a lot of kit or scratchbuilding.

 

Part of me hopes it stays that way. If we could get everything needed to produce a GCR layout RTR I might have to find something else to model. Perhaps by going back to the MS&LR or the LD&ECR periods.

[Bishdurham]

2 hours ago, The Black Hat said:

Renumbering is fairly straight forwards. PM me if you need advice as I'm local. 

Thanks!  I take it that Geoff meant to say that the /1 were RHD and the /2 were LHD.  They also had shorter chimneys to cope with the LNER loading gauge and some other differences.  So I am happy to wait to see if a /2 version is produced later.

[Mark Dickerson]

2 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said:

https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/1000389/1000588/1000636/1446726/hornby_oo_gauge_1_76_scale_coaches/prodlist.aspx?showpreowned=false&pageid=1

Not sure any of these would be much better Dreadnought stand-ins, though... Better to keep the money and save up for some kits. I take the point that Thompson and Gresley non-corridors are either exact or similar to the ex-Marylebone trains, with a mish-mash of Mk.1 non-corridors and Gresley corridors elsewhere (but a fair few presumably pre-grouping types?).

 

Not sure I've seen an image of an A5 with Mk.1 corridors though; the shot of an A5 hauling Gresley or Thompson corridors on the Master Cutler is presumably unusual(?)

[richard i]

1 hour ago, Helmdon said:

 

It's a great time to be a GC modeller - I almost wish I was doing pre-grouping GC, but happy enough with the 1950s (and too much stock to change now)

It isn’t. I did and have never regretted the shift. It saves your wallet as there is less to tempt you.

37 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

 

 

The RTR support for the GCR has so far been a Director, two limited edition models in the J11 and O4 and now the A5. There are some "Generic" carriages in a livery which would never have been seen with either the D11 or the A5. Other than that, has there been anything produced?

 

There have been 2 wagons with gc on their sides but they were generic too.  You are right kits are the only way……for now.

richard 

[richard i]

2 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Looking at the GCR livery one, it looks like one of the later builds, 1917 IIRC, and, I think the presence of the top feed, which was not fitted, I think, when the early class members were built, but introduced later by Robinson, suggests to me that back-dating the model via a change of identity would not work. Does anyone know when 9Ns were first seen with top feeds?

 

I seldom venture into the post-WWI pre-Grouping world, but here I find I am, and this is sensible, because the condition of the Sonic 9N does make the model a suitable companion for the Bachmann Improved Director, which, of course, was a post-War class. 

 

 

You could file off the top feed and repaint one boiler section. You would also need to change the safety valves. TBH that is definitely a wartime thing where as some might have had top feeds earlier. I would need to do some digging. 
richard 

[Edwardian]

7 minutes ago, richard i said:

You could file off the top feed and repaint one boiler section. You would also need to change the safety valves. TBH that is definitely a wartime thing where as some might have had top feeds earlier. I would need to do some digging. 
richard 

 

Thanks, Richard.  RCTS doesn't seem to have a date for the top feeds.

[Helmdon]

59 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

I started modelling the GCR in pre-grouping times because I like making things and it seemed a bit of a waste of effort making things that could be bought RTR.

 

So I have gradually gone back in time from the BR period, to the LNER days, then back to pre WW1 due to the rise of RTR for later periods.

 

The RTR support for the GCR has so far been a Director, two limited edition models in the J11 and O4 and now the A5. There are some "Generic" carriages in a livery which would never have been seen with either the D11 or the A5. Other than that, has there been anything produced?

 

So it is still not possible to build an authentic GCR layout without a lot of kit or scratchbuilding.

 

Part of me hopes it stays that way. If we could get everything needed to produce a GCR layout RTR I might have to find something else to model. Perhaps by going back to the MS&LR or the LD&ECR periods.

 

I meant GC modelling in its widest sense, from opening to closure - being younger (40), young family, etc, I don't have the time to scratchbuild lots of things, and yes RtR GC liveried stuff is limited (though still probably more than ever before).

 

As a 1950s GC modeller though - when else would I have had simultaneous access (through both new models and internet-sold second hand) to B17, B1, L1, O1, O7, O4, D11/1, J11, A5, K3, V2, J39, 10xx, 69xx, 68xx...? Before we even get into 'plug and play' London Extension stations.

 

Because over the last 5 years or so that's what I've been able to put together for the model that I've actually got time to make (I do do all my own scenery, etc).

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Helmdon said:

 

I meant GC modelling in its widest sense, from opening to closure - being younger (40), young family, etc, I don't have the time to scratchbuild lots of things, and yes RtR GC liveried stuff is limited (though still probably more than ever before).

 

As a 1950s GC modeller though - when else would I have had simultaneous access (through both new models and internet-sold second hand) to B17, B1, L1, O1, O7, O4, D11/1, J11, A5, K3, V2, J39, 10xx, 69xx, 68xx...? Before we even get into 'plug and play' London Extension stations.

 

Because over the last 5 years or so that's what I've been able to put together for the model that I've actually got time to make (I do do all my own scenery, etc).

 

That sounds much more likely!

 

I have seen a few threads on here with the letters GCR in the title and many times people say they are modelling the GCR and when I have a look, they models are set in later times.

 

It usually turns out to be mostly BR but sometimes LNER period.

 

Those later periods are well catered for and you can add the A3 to your list of available classes, along with Royal Scots and Black 5s which dominated the traffic after the LM Region took it over and killed it off.

 

 

[Helmdon]

26 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

That sounds much more likely!

 

I have seen a few threads on here with the letters GCR in the title and many times people say they are modelling the GCR and when I have a look, they models are set in later times.

 

It usually turns out to be mostly BR but sometimes LNER period.

 

Those later periods are well catered for and you can add the A3 to your list of available classes, along with Royal Scots and Black 5s which dominated the traffic after the LM Region took it over and killed it off.

 

 

I'm looking out of my back window at the London extension now - all the eras are before my time so I thought I might as well do the 50s as anything else. At least some of the people in the village still remember what it was like then!

[Metr0Land]

7 hours ago, drt7uk said:

 

Have you or anyone come across more info on exactly when it served on the Rickmansworth / Aylesbury line? From what I can find it definitely served in the LNER era (as an aside it will never not be weird that the LNER ran to the West of the WCML)

 

 

I can only go on the loco allocations which were from 1911-1950 for Neasden plus the few pics in books and online.  Am not sure what else they would have worked from Neasden if it weren't the Ricky/Aylesbury/High Wycombe routes.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Metr0Land

[PenrithBeacon]

3 hours ago, Mark Dickerson said:

Not sure any of these would be much better Dreadnought stand-ins, though... Better to keep the money and save up for some kits. I take the point that Thompson and Gresley non-corridors are either exact or similar to the ex-Marylebone trains, with a mish-mash of Mk.1 non-corridors and Gresley corridors elsewhere (but a fair few presumably pre-grouping types?).

 

Not sure I've seen an image of an A5 with Mk.1 corridors though; the shot of an A5 hauling Gresley or Thompson corridors on the Master Cutler is presumably unusual(?)

The A5 class could be seen at different times all over the GCR system. I remember them in Manchester in the fifties with ex-LNER non corridors, mostly Gresley, with GCR non-corridor coaches mixed in. I think the GCR modeller of the late 50s/early 60s could justify a complete train of Gresley non-corridors.

Bill Bedford does GCR coach sides, I bought two off him a few years ago now to do the two coach push-pull train that used to run on the AO&GB hauled by a 4-4-2T. Not so sure about bogie casting though.

[James Harrison]

I'm curious why 6 or 7 of them were based at Annesley from 1911 onward.  Nottingham or Sheffield suburban runs?

[Mark Dickerson]

59 minutes ago, Metr0Land said:

 

I can only go on the loco allocations which were from 1911-1950 for Neasden plus the few pics in books and online.  Am not sure what else they would have worked from Neasden if it weren't the Ricky/Aylesbury/High Wycombe routes.

RCTS Green Book has the last 2 leaving Neasden in 1954, so I suspect a little more moving around than is indicated in the online databases. GC routes from Marylebone from introduction as you say, and LT Rickmansworth-Aylesbury trains on the same (Met&GC) tracks from late 1937 until replaced by L1s.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Mark Dickerson

[Helmdon]

1 hour ago, James Harrison said:

I'm curious why 6 or 7 of them were based at Annesley from 1911 onward.  Nottingham or Sheffield suburban runs?

Unless they were trying them on coal… but the one of them probably picked up the DIDO

[richard i]

6 hours ago, Helmdon said:

 

I meant GC modelling in its widest sense, from opening to closure - being younger (40), young family, etc, I don't have the time to scratchbuild lots of things, and yes RtR GC liveried stuff is limited (though still probably more than ever before).

 

As a 1950s GC modeller though - when else would I have had simultaneous access (through both new models and internet-sold second hand) to B17, B1, L1, O1, O7, O4, D11/1, J11, A5, K3, V2, J39, 10xx, 69xx, 68xx...? Before we even get into 'plug and play' London Extension stations.

 

Because over the last 5 years or so that's what I've been able to put together for the model that I've actually got time to make (I do do all my own scenery, etc).

I know how you feel. I was in a similar position but as the kids got older time was freed up and it seems much more achievable. I still have all my br stock if I want to run modern image from time to time. Not too much longer, I am only late 40s.

richard 

[Helmdon]

22 minutes ago, richard i said:

I know how you feel. I was in a similar position but as the kids got older time was freed up and it seems much more achievable. I still have all my br stock if I want to run modern image from time to time. Not too much longer, I am only late 40s.

richard 

My oldest (only at the moment) is still under 1

[drt7uk]

7 hours ago, Metr0Land said:

 

I can only go on the loco allocations which were from 1911-1950 for Neasden plus the few pics in books and online.  Am not sure what else they would have worked from Neasden if it weren't the Ricky/Aylesbury/High Wycombe routes.

Thanks! The wiki entry was saying that the High Wycombe line enabled the GCR to switched their express trains to that line, and increase suburban services on the Aylesbury line, presumably competing with the Metropolitan line. Am assuming that these locos were used for said suburban services!

[Gordieb01]

I think this is a great prototype from Sonic and Rails of Sheffield.   I don't model GCR or LNER myself (I'm GWR/LMS Western Division) but basically I'm all for any pre-grouping or Big Four era loco's that haven't yet been produced.   I also like the large Tank Engines.   How about one of the Whitelegg, Glasgow and South Western Baltics someone?  https://www.pinterest.nz/pin/578079302158162406/

[cheesysmith]

I model BR diesels, but will have one of these, just because it is GC. Now, how about the C13 and N4/5?

[PenrithBeacon]

5 hours ago, Gordieb01 said:

... I don't model GCR or LNER myself (I'm GWR/LMS Western Division) but basically I'm all for any pre-grouping or Big Four era loco's that haven't yet been produced.  ...

I think, but I'm not absolutely sure, that the A5s in Manchester were part of Western Lines