Mystery Train on the WOEML

[Mallard60022]

Good evening. Looking at 'my' trains that ran through Seaton Junction on Summer Saturdays around 1961/2, I see there was apparently a Portsmouth to Ilfracombe direct (no changes at Exeter), as well as the Portsmouth to Plymouth that I was and am familiar with. I was looking for the Train formations.

There did not appear to be a direct return working for this service. I am not too fussed but can't remember reading about this train anywhere else. Does anyone know if there was an 'Up' service or did passengers use an Exeter Train and change, or an Ilfracombe Waterloo direct and change at Salisbury for example? Many thanks.

Phil

[bécasse]

A through Portsmouth to Ilfracombe service may well have been a "marriage of convenience" of stock working, something of which the SWD was fond, there was a through (but unadvertised) Waterloo-Bournemouth-Bath-Bristol-Portishead working for several years in the early 1960s, curtailed at Bristol when the Portishead branch closed. That too had no obvious return working although clearly the stock got home somehow eventually.

[Mallard60022]

I believe this was a Mk 1 working too as is mentioned in an article I read. Not sure how many Mk1s went to Ilfracombe.

P

[30851]

The book "British Railway Centers - Exeter Central Summer Saturday 1961" says there was a 12:15 Portsmouth to Ilfracombe express that rum summer Saturdays as a relief to the normal Brighton to Plymouth. It has the formation as:

 

BSK (L) Portsmouth - Ilfracombe

CK (L) Portsmouth - Ilfracombe

BSK (L) Portsmouth - Ilfracombe

BSK (L) Portsmouth - Torrington

CK (L) Portsmouth - Torrington

BSK (L) Portsmouth -Torrington

SK Waterloo - Exeter

SK Waterloo - Exeter

 

As the 3 Sets are listed as (L) that would make them Bulleid.

 

The book doesn't list an exact return train but has a 10:02 Plymouth to Portsmouth as a relief to the normal Plymouth - Brighton. This departed Exeter at 12:12. The formation in this case is

 

BSK (S)

CK (S)

SK (S)

BSK (S)

BSK (S)

CK (S)

SK (S)

BSK (S)

SK

 

All Plymouth to Portsmouth. I don't know if a 4 coach S set is Bulleid or MK1 or...

 

Rob

 

 

 

[chris45lsw]

A 4-set (S) was BR Mk1 BSK/CK/SK/BSK, set Nos. between 866 and 891, all built as 4-sets but several had been augmented to longer sets from 6 to 11 coaches by 1961.

 

Chris KT

[TheSignalEngineer]

S sets in the WoE were allocated to Waterloo -Plymouth, Portsmouth - Plymouth and Portsmouth - Cardiff. They were Mk1 stock.

Set numbers were 866, 867, 877, 878, 881, 882, 883, 884, 887, 888, 891.

[Mallard60022]

8 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

S sets in the WoE were allocated to Waterloo -Plymouth, Portsmouth - Plymouth and Portsmouth - Cardiff. They were Mk1 stock.

Set numbers were 866, 867, 877, 878, 881, 882, 883, 884, 887, 888, 891.

Thanks Buddy. Very generic Sets. I saw them all over the place, including one at Weymouth in later days.

I have been searching for what might be a Mk1 set + 3 leaving Ilfracombe on a 'return working.' Getting boring ploughing through so many damn pictures though and captions are unhelpful most of the time. I don't really care any more. 

P

[Mallard60022]

11 hours ago, 30851 said:

The book "British Railway Centers - Exeter Central Summer Saturday 1961" says there was a 12:15 Portsmouth to Ilfracombe express that rum summer Saturdays as a relief to the normal Brighton to Plymouth. It has the formation as:

 

BSK (L) Portsmouth - Ilfracombe

CK (L) Portsmouth - Ilfracombe

BSK (L) Portsmouth - Ilfracombe

BSK (L) Portsmouth - Torrington

CK (L) Portsmouth - Torrington

BSK (L) Portsmouth -Torrington

SK Waterloo - Exeter

SK Waterloo - Exeter

 

As the 3 Sets are listed as (L) that would make them Bulleid.

 

The book doesn't list an exact return train but has a 10:02 Plymouth to Portsmouth as a relief to the normal Plymouth - Brighton. This departed Exeter at 12:12. The formation in this case is

 

BSK (S)

CK (S)

SK (S)

BSK (S)

BSK (S)

CK (S)

SK (S)

BSK (S)

SK

 

All Plymouth to Portsmouth. I don't know if a 4 coach S set is Bulleid or MK1 or...

Rob

That's the Down one Rob. SKs added at Salisbury then.

Thank you so much and being Bulleids means I may not need to get some more Green Mk1s. Brilliant and I really appreciate you ploughing through that Book which I find makes my eyes go weird after 10 minutes.

The Up service still doesn't quite match  those and I suspect is the usual Plymouth Portsmouth Set and looks like Mk 1s; I will already have a Set with suitable Coach Boards and just need to adjust to 2 X 4 + an SK unless the regular Portsmouth was this formation which I need to confirm.

Most helpful. 

Phil

P

[Mallard60022]

10 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

That's the Down one Rob. SKs added at Salisbury then.

Thank you so much and being Bulleids means I may not need to get some more Green Mk1s. Brilliant and I really appreciate you ploughing through that Book which I find makes my eyes go weird after 10 minutes.

The Up service still doesn't quite match  those and I suspect is the usual Plymouth Portsmouth Set and looks like Mk 1s; I will already have a Set with suitable Coach Boards and just need to adjust to 2 X 4 + an SK unless the regular Portsmouth was this formation which I need to confirm.

Most helpful. 

Phil

P

In fact I believe the regular Portsmouth was 2x 4S + SK as it was a 9 coach Train; no Buffet so plenty of food gathering at Plymouth before departure & Exeter and /or Salisbury from one of those Trollies probably? I have seen Trollies in use at Salisbury; lovely lady as the Server.

 

9 hours ago, chris45lsw said:

A 4-set (S) was BR Mk1 BSK/CK/SK/BSK, set Nos. between 866 and 891, all built as 4-sets but several had been augmented to longer sets from 6 to 11 coaches by 1961.

 

Chris KT

Explains the gaps in the series 861 - 891; must re read my notes to see if any had RBs added.

P

[TheSignalEngineer]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

I have been searching for what might be a Mk1 set + 3 leaving Ilfracombe on a 'return working.

I don't know about that for your period but by winter 1963 the 11.00 Waterloo Ilfracombe portion is shown as shown a 3-set (K) which were Mk1s, Some at least were the aforementioned 4-set (S) with the SK removed.

 

I have only one attempt at a photo myself in 1965, a bit of a failure but the neg survived. It was a Warship leaving Barnstaple for Ilfracombe taken from the first coach. The destination board clips are on the coach side above the windows and the profile is not Bulleid.

I've seen at least one near Barnstaple Town with a Mk1 BSK behind a Warship on Flickr but that was about 1966

[Mallard60022]

On 14/08/2021 at 11:01, TheSignalEngineer said:

I don't know about that for your period but by winter 1963 the 11.00 Waterloo Ilfracombe portion is shown as shown a 3-set (K) which were Mk1s, Some at least were the aforementioned 4-set (S) with the SK removed.

 

I have only one attempt at a photo myself in 1965, a bit of a failure but the neg survived. It was a Warship leaving Barnstaple for Ilfracombe taken from the first coach. The destination board clips are on the coach side above the windows and the profile is not Bulleid.

I've seen at least one near Barnstaple Town with a Mk1 BSK behind a Warship on Flickr but that was about 1966

Thanks matey. Certainly in late (Autumn) '64 and deffo during '65, MK1s came far more into use as the Bulleids were dumped very rapidly. many thanks. I am not that fussed really but a certain level of authenticity is required in my head for the main Trains on the layout.

Phil