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Pre-preservation (& pre-1931) Ropley reference needed if possible


Harry
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  • RMweb Gold

Hi,

 

I’m struggling to find any reference photos of the western end of Ropley station / platforms. Several maps suggest that there was a level crossing at this end before 1931 but I can’t find any reference photos as to what kind. I can’t imagine it was much more than an agriculture track crossing the track as the road ends nearby in a field but it would be amazing if anyone knows or had any photos of this. The east end is better served by photos etc and appears to have a small separate goods platform and loading gauge. 

 

I also wanted to see if anyone knew whether what the maps suggest is correct about the main route through the station: Post 1931, after the passing loop was removed, the southern track (one nearest the platform with the main station building on it) was the remaining track and therefore the constant curve through the station. This has been retained into preservation with the northern passing loop leaving this via left-handed turnouts. Pre-1931, it looks like this was the other way around i.e. the smooth curve / main route through was the northern track and the passing loop was the southern one which left the ‘main’ line via right-handed turnouts. Does anyone know if that’s correct?

 

Any help is much appreciated - just trying to finalise the track plan for a pre-preservation 4mm Ropley.

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  • RMweb Gold

Hi Harry.  I’m the Mid-Hants Railway’s archivist and I’ve just come across this.

 

The crossing at the country end of Ropley platforms ~ formerly known as “Evans’s” - was an accommodation crossing provided to allow access for the local farmer to a field on the north side of the railway.   Until 1931 it was also used by members of the public to cross between the platforms, there being no footbridge until the 1980s.  The crossing remains in use although in recent years it has been renamed “Blake’s” to commemorate a long-standing volunteer member of the station staff.

 

You are quite right that in the original layout the up platform was served by the main line and the down platform by the loop.  This layout was common to all the Mid-Hants line stations (whichever side the buildings were on) and I guess that the intention was to give the straight run to trains facing up the gradient.  

 

When the up platform at Ropley was taken out of use in 1931, at first the single line wiggled into and out of the remaining platform where the loop points had been.  When the line was relaid after WW2, the track was re-aligned and the wiggles were  taken out.  Then in 1976 the preservationists superimposed an up loop on this alignment, so the present layout is the reverse of the original.

 

I’m not aware of any clear photographs of the crossing in the period you’re interested in but I can certainly find one or two to illustrate the track and signalling layout.  I’ll dig them out for you tomorrow. It’s time for bed now!

 

Keith.

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  • RMweb Gold

Hi Keith,

 

That is a fantastic reply - many thanks for taking the time to provide that information. Any reference material you have would be much appreciated. 
 

We only live 25 mins away from Ropley and visit often - I’m dragging the family camping behind the station next week for a couple of nights so fingers crossed for some sun! I know there are several great layouts showing the preserved Ropley but something has always appealed to me about the tranquility (yet elaborate topiary) of the pre-1931 station. 
 

The other query I had was around what the separate smaller goods platform beyond the loading gauge at the east end of the station was used for (what kind of goods traffic was this for - watercress?) and how the short two sidings were used (circled in red on the 1909 map below). The map looks like it shows a 3-way turnout as well (circled in blue) which I doubt is correct and I believe the Barry-slip is only a preservation item so was this just two short regular turnouts?

 

Apologies for all the questions but thank you again for your time.

 

 

E3AA26AE-8A09-4449-9861-BDC193FE567B.jpeg

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  • RMweb Gold

Not quite the morning I'm afraid but here are a couple of photos which will illustrate the pre-1931 track and signalling layout.

 

The first one shows the east end of the layout with the signal box and loop still in situ.  Clock the enormous co-acting down home signal (necessitated by Bighton Hill bridge).  This must have been visible from the end of Ropley Soke cutting, 1½ miles away!  There is also an up advanced starting signal against the bridge.  All the Mid-Hants stations had advanced starters but no outer homes (Medstead country end only) - a curious arrangement as you would have had to release a tablet to allow shunting onto the single line anyway.  I can only assume that this was a rather elaborate "limit of shunt" arrangement.  This photo dates from the summer of 1922.  The rather dapper young chap on the barrow is the 17 year old Bert Mead, who was a junior clerk at Ropley in 1922-23.

 

The second photo dates from the late 1920s.  You can see the curvature of the down loop and just make out the crossing at the end of the platform.  The porter in this shot is Bert Hatch, who was the son of the Alton stationmaster. (I met him many years later, in his old age).  The print is captioned on the reverse "me carrying the waybills for the milk".

 

We have a print of another photo which clearly shows the wiggle in the line after the loop was taken out, but unfortunately I can't reproduce this for copyright reasons.

 

Turning to the matter of goods facilities, these were always rather limited at all the stations except Alresford. The main traffics would be what you would expect at a rural station, basically coal, animal feed and fertiliser and general merchandise in, livestock in and out and timber and agricultural produce out.

 

The platform in the yard appears to have dealt with the kind of general merchandise which would normally be dealt with in a goods shed, albeit in the open.  I'm not aware that there was a fixed cattle dock at Ropley but at Medstead the loading platform had removable hurdles (usually seen stacked up agains the end of the goods lock-up) so Ropley may have had a similar arrangement.  There was quite a bit of equestrian traffic at one time (the Hampshire Hunt is still based in Ropley) so it may well have been used for this as was the dock at Alresford.

 

The northernmost of the two sidings served an end loading dock behind the signal box (now covered over by the present wheel drop shed).  This used to have an enormous concrete loading ramp at the end and I wouldn't mind betting (although I have no direct evidence) that during WW2 it was used for unloading tanks for dispersal prior to D Day.  I imagine that the southernmost was the "mileage siding" for goods such as coal which were charged at  mileage rates.  I very much doubt that there was a three way point here - you always have to take track layouts shown in old OS maps with a pinch of salt.

 

In the first photo you can see part of the goods lock-up behind the platform, which dates from the 1880s and was built from old sleepers.  This was used to store small consignments which were carried by the road box service, which would be loaded and unloaded at the platform. All the Mid-Hants line stations had one of these but the only survivor is at Medstead.  (This is now used as a museum space and the old porters wouldn't recognise the interior!)

 

The watercress beds were (and are) centred around the river Alre and the other tributaries of the Itchen.  The Alre rises from springs at Bishop's Sutton (between Ropley and Alresford) and Alresford was always the railhead for this traffic.  (You can still see traces of disused beds from the train shortly before it enters Alresford cutting.)

 

As you say, Ropley station must have been a tranquil place in the old days.  (It's very different now, of course.)  It was (and is) remote from the centre of the village and the most direct route to the station for pedestrians was via a right of way which ran diagonally across a farmer's field, across Bighton Hill by the bridge and alongside the yard.  Like a lot of rural stations, during the 1920s the passenger business largely disappeared when a bus service started up along the main road and the general merchandise and livestock traffics were gradually taken over by lorries.  It was really the coal traffic that kept it going until Beeching put an end to wagonload freight in the 1960s (although Bert Hatch told me that there was a tarmac plant in the yard before WW2 so presumably there was some tanker traffic then.)  

 

That's a rather long post, I'm afraid, but I hope it's helpful.

 

Keith.

RP202.jpg

RP225.jpg

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  • RMweb Gold

Thank you so much for the replies - especially all that detail and the images Keith - they are fantastic. I have tried creating a draft track plan which I thought would be quite simple but really wasn't! It was really tricky to try to work out the sidings arrangements and which track the different turnouts came off. As a result, I still haven't got the shape quite right but have attached my initial draft in diagram mode to see what you think. Does it look about right or do I need more distance between the turnout leaving the loop into the sidings? Thanks again for such great photos and replies.

 

ropley_draft.jpg

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  • RMweb Gold

Hi Harry - apologies for the delayed reply.  We have various copies of the SR estates dept plan of the Ropley site which may be illuminating, but  they are quite large and I don't have copies at home.  I should be going into Ropley later this week so I'll see if I can dig out a suitable plan which I can at least photograph for you, which should give you a better idea.  As you may have gathered from my earlier reply, photographic evidence of this end of the site is a bit thin on the ground.

 

What I can say is that the present yard access crossover basically follows the line of the original yard turnout  (albeit a bit further towards Medstead) and the wheel drop shed occupies the alignment of the siding immediately behind the platform, so I'd say the best way to judge whether you've got it right is to take a look from the vantage point of the Harry Potter bridge.

 

Originally, the points leading into the yard were right at the end of the platform (i.e. the tips of the switches were opposite the bottom of the platform ramp) and the yard turnout took a wide sweep, curving back in to run parallel to the single line under the bridge towards Medstead.  The points leading into the sidings behind the platform formed the other half of the crossover, at the point where it started to run parallel to the main line.  The loading platform was just beyond this.

 

You may be aware that in later years there was a second crossover (facing for trains coming from Medstead) at the other end of the loading platform, forming a short loop.  I think that this, and the extension of the long siding under Bighton Road bridge, were put in when the platform loop was taken out.  We have a photo taken at about this time, looking east from the bridge, showing the long siding looking very new!

 

I hope that's helpful.

 

Keith.

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  • RMweb Gold

Thanks so much again for the reply Keith. I wasn’t aware of the other crossover but it’s an interesting feature and may add to the operational interest - I’m basing the track plan on pre-1931 so I can include the platform loop but I could slightly tweak history to allow the extra crossover being in place at the same time as the platform loop! I’ll think about that one!! I’d like it to be as historically accurate as possible so it could be ‘used’ in the future so I might not. 

 

Any further photos of a plan would be fantastic if you have the chance. Are the plans / photos / archive viewable by the public at all? It would be fascinating to view them one day. I’m also hoping to find a plan of the station buildings (before the first floor extension at the west end was added). I think I may have found one on the Network Rail plan site ( Here)  but it doesn’t include the up platform shelter sadly.  I’ve also found some good photos on this site which are helpful but I’m sure you already have copies of these. 
 

Thanks again for the help - I’m hoping to finalise the track-plan in the next week so I can get some baseboards completed before the summer holiday comes crashing to an end!!

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Hi Harry.  Anything we have in the archives (with the exception of some recent papers) can be viewed by appointment.  I used to use the upstairs extension at Ropley as a reading room but this has  recently been converted to an office so I'm currently using the stationmaster's office at Medstead.  This means that I need a little bit of notice to transport stuff.  I can let you know a bit more about what we have in the way of plans when I've had a chance to get in.  We have quite a lot of photos but the more interesting ones are available in digital form.  I can PM you a link to the digital archive for your personal use if you like.

 

The drawing in the Network Rail archive (it's on their online shop so you can buy copies) is the original plans and elevations for Ropley and Itchen Abbas station houses, which were identical as built.  It's water coloured and looks very nice.    Both station houses were extended in the 1890s.  Itchen Abbas was first and they got the original builders (Bull & Sons of Southampton) to add an extra bay in the original style.  Sadly, by the time they came to do Ropley, Bulls had gone out of business and the extension there is, shall we say, a little bit less architecturally distinguished...

 

All of the original platform shelters disappeared years ago, Alresford when the present waiting room was built and Ropley and Itchen Abbas after the platforms were taken out of use in 1931, and photographic evidence is only fragmentary.  However the floor area could be deduced from the station plans and the station building at Medstead was an enlarged version in the same style, so it should be possible to put together a reasonable reproduction from such evidence as is available.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Keith.

 

 

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Hi Keith, a link to the digital archives would be fantastic if you wouldn’t mind? 

 

I’m currently indulging in field-research on-site with a nice view of the incoming and outgoing trains outside the tent! (Much to my wife’s joy and not any until tomorrow now!) 

 

Thanks again for all the help and look forward to seeing the digital archive. (Some great photos in the book pictured as well) 

 

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I found a good photo today regarding my question about the points to enter the short sidings and it appears we were both wrong about the assumption it wasn’t a three-way as this photo seems to show clearly that it was! (This was 1961 though so don’t know if it was changed to this after ‘31?)

E253461B-39BA-4B13-B23F-61134A49FFC9.jpeg.2410476ce8261b7d0d5ebc356936cd70.jpeg

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Good morning Harry and well spotted!  I had forgotten about that photo.  It's not in the current digitised set but we may have a print in the archives - I'll check.  The photo was taken on one of the occasions when the main line was closed - in this case due to a landslip at Hook, I think - and services ran via the Mid-Hants.  

 

I suspect that this is the 1931 layout, unless it was altered during the War for some reason.

 

In the first (hardback) edition of Roger's book, which I have here, the image extends further to the right and you can see the switches for the "new" crossover, just past the end of the loading ramp.  That means that the loop formed by the two crossovers can't have been more than about 250ft long.  

 

I'll send a PM about the digital folder.

 

Keith.

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  • RMweb Gold

This is mainly to show poor Keith - who has provided endless information and resources via PM that there is a genuine layout being built!! I know a lamp hut isn’t much but it’s the first finished item!! (I also know it’s the new colours and not the pre-1931 colours we discussed - I have a second one that I’m painting in those colours to see which is preferable). 

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15B6BAE6-EA5F-42FB-AFD8-7C2762F305D8.jpeg

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  • RMweb Gold

The track is coming along nicely on the first baseboard for Ropley with the three-way complete and working. 
 

58CF9603-ED97-46C3-9B2A-2983AC76AEAE.jpeg.0e05d90046256600fc1b99496f41da09.jpeg8B86071D-5AB3-4932-A6DA-F5EBD0EC96FE.jpeg.be20822195f474f0bdf8b8a75776e816.jpeg
 

I’m going to install point rodding / signals etc before ballasting but am struggling to find a pre-preservation signal diagram. There’s one of Alton in the mid-hants book but not Ropley. 
 

Does anyone know where I’d be able to find one?

 

Many thanks as always. 

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  • RMweb Gold

I guess this is my cue...

 

There is a signalling diagram in the G A Pryer "green book" - Signal Box Diagrams of the Great Western and Southern Railways vol 15, drawing no.67.  These were published privately and this volume may well be out of print, but you may be able to find a secondhand copy.

 

Keith

Alton.

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  • RMweb Gold

Thank you as ever Keith for delivering right on cue!! I’ve found a copy for £25 on EBay so will go for that - bit of a mark up on its original price!!

 

the other thing I’m searching for references on at the moment is the interesting ‘egg depot’ at Ropley. Just trying to get an idea of what this would have actually have looked like. I’m not having much luck finding any photos yet - do you have anything in the archives? Thanks as always. 

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