Large station (Working name - Wakefield West-Kirk) Track plan Help

[KingEdwardII]

18 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Were goods sheds really right at the very end of sidings?

You're right - most goods sheds had a section of track beyond them. What this section of track was used for varied a bit - but pushing wagons through the shed was one. Sometimes there was a loading dock there - not all goods handling took place within the shed.

 

At Shepton Mallet, the goods shed was on a loop, with access to running lines at both ends.

 

Having the goods shed on a bay line next to a passenger platform does seem fairly common.

 

Yours, Mike.

[Harlequin]

1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Were goods sheds really right at the very end of sidings?

I have not seen a great deal of plans for old stations but, on all those I have, the shed is not at the end of the siding.

It seems typical to put sheds at the end of sidings on layouts but it looks operationally wrong to me because only the end 1 or 2 wagons can fit in the shed (after you've removed the brake van). The train has to be completely re-shunted to get at the rest, which is a lot of work easily avoided if the shed was a little further along the siding; it would then just be a matter of pushing/pulling the train along a little to get to the next ones.

Railways were built as they are(were) for a reason & my view is that squeezing sheds at the end of sidings is a modelling compromise for the sake of compression.

 

I came across one station recently where the goods shed was at the end of the siding: Tregaron on the old Manchester and Milford railway. It's a bit of an oddity and it must have been tedious to work for all the reasons you mentioned.

 

The goods shed at Barnoldswick seems to cover the siding in some track plans but earlier plans show it as a through shed so I guess it was extended over the buffers - maybe the extension was open sided? Not sure.

 

 

[Flying Pig]

14 hours ago, KingEdwardII said:

Congresbury is a junction between two single lines and the GWR in their wisdom had the scissors as the first connection between the two single lines as they approach the station from the south. In that location, 3 of the points would be "facing" with respect to passenger train movements. 

 

 

That's a standard double to single junction and facing points are unavoidable.  A scissors arrangement was quite common though often it was placed at the meeting point of the two lines and flowed rather more elegantly. Signal plan for Congresbury: https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwb/S428.htm

 

Coming back to large stations, I wouldn't worry too much about facing crossovers provided the line speed was low and there was a real need.  I think the OP would benefit from thinking about how the various platforms in the station will be used though, as that would have determined the design of the throats. The station could probably be operated with just a single trailing crossover at each end. 

 

[spackz]

2 hours ago, Clagsniffer said:

If it helps @spackz I’ve attached a couple of pictures showing how @Harlequin alternative north road track plan looks in the flesh.

 

I can take more pictures if you’d like to see more.

 

Cheers.

Thanks, looking great, going to concentrate getting the garage habitable for hobby purposes, then progress to this sort of trackplan.

[The Stationmaster]

38 minutes ago, Flying Pig said:

 

That's a standard double to single junction and facing points are unavoidable.  A scissors arrangement was quite common though often it was placed at the meeting point of the two lines and flowed rather more elegantly. Signal plan for Congresbury: https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwb/S428.htm

 

Coming back to large stations, I wouldn't worry too much about facing crossovers provided the line speed was low and there was a real need.  I think the OP would benefit from thinking about how the various platforms in the station will be used though, as that would have determined the design of the throats. The station could probably be operated with just a single trailing crossover at each end. 

 

Going a bit OT actually usinga scissors crossover at what amounted to a junction of two single lie (or indeed the earlier arrangement of two separate crossovers was technically illegal as junctions between single lines were required to be laid out as double line junctions.  I suspect the GWR got away with it because there was insufficient space to create a double line junction when teh station actually became a junction.

 

Our long gone local goods shed had the siding beyind the shed cut back (presumably to improve vehicular access to the yard) and the shed platform was extended in the opposite direction with a separate awning.

[Zomboid]

If a scissors is something to use, then how about using them mid platform and doing something like Cambridge or Limerick Jn? Would admittedly need a lot of space, but would also allow everything in front of the station to be open (except any bay platforms behind it), and by only modelling part of one end it could fit.

 

Goods can then be in front of the station and easily accessed.

 

[spackz]

11 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

If a scissors is something to use, then how about using them mid platform and doing something like Cambridge or Limerick Jn? Would admittedly need a lot of space, but would also allow everything in front of the station to be open (except any bay platforms behind it), and by only modelling part of one end it could fit.

 

Goods can then be in front of the station and easily accessed.

 

Yes this is how I've seen them used before, Nottingham Victoria I think. I might even move the main station building to a higher level with the tracks disappearing underneath, much like Nottingham midland, then use a couple of what will basically be island platforms.  

[RobinofLoxley]

Personally I think incorproating any single item into a plan, just because you have one, is not the right approach at all. If it doesnt fit you can sell the item and the way things are in the second hand arena, probably get more than you paid for it.

[Compound2632]

Whilst the Ordnance Survey's surveyors didn't always record pointwork with the accuracy of a railway company survey, they usually got close enough. A browse through the old editions of the 25 inch/mile maps will soon give a feel for what is prototypical and what is outlandish. 

[spackz]

20 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Whilst the Ordnance Survey's surveyors didn't always record pointwork with the accuracy of a railway company survey, they usually got close enough. A browse through the old editions of the 25 inch/mile maps will soon give a feel for what is prototypical and what is outlandish. 

Thanks some good stuff in there, I'm not basing my layout on any one location which gives me some flexibility on track plans and architecture. 

 

Garage now has an insulated ceiling and 50% of the walls now have insulated plasterboard fitted.

[DCB]

On 19/08/2021 at 22:03, spackz said:

I'm much happier with the latest iteration now, just needs some tweaks. Need to decide where the roads and canals go so the road naturally leads to the station frontage and/or goods area.  Ran out of my 50 piece limit on Anyrail so couldn't finish everything. What are peoples thoughts, better? Added too much?

 

 

That's not that different to our through station, we have a junction at the left hand top end where three lines diverge, two lines and a bay below the station where the buildings are and three lines not 5 above. with sidings at left top, loco at right top but the four tracks are similar and getting at the top tracks is a real pain.  That's without reaching over buildings.

Four tracks isn't great as you end up side tracking an express while a local goods overtakes, I often wish I had put the goods lines around the back of the platform.

Small goods sheds are normally open at both ends so wagons can be moved through as they are emptied or loaded but big goods sheds are normally single ended, and a pilot loco is needed to remove wagons when they need moving. Some of them were huge. What is really awkward is a small goods shed at the end of a long siding everything having to shunted out o remove one wagon.   We had it on the outside branch and it was just a darned nuisance

[spackz]

19 hours ago, DCB said:

That's not that different to our through station, we have a junction at the left hand top end where three lines diverge, two lines and a bay below the station where the buildings are and three lines not 5 above. with sidings at left top, loco at right top but the four tracks are similar and getting at the top tracks is a real pain.  That's without reaching over buildings.

Four tracks isn't great as you end up side tracking an express while a local goods overtakes, I often wish I had put the goods lines around the back of the platform.

Small goods sheds are normally open at both ends so wagons can be moved through as they are emptied or loaded but big goods sheds are normally single ended, and a pilot loco is needed to remove wagons when they need moving. Some of them were huge. What is really awkward is a small goods shed at the end of a long siding everything having to shunted out o remove one wagon.   We had it on the outside branch and it was just a darned nuisance

After all the input from the guys on here, there are going to be quite a few changes come the final iteration.