RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 19, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 19, 2021 Now, I know the Nelevator concept exists, but this has not taken the world by storm as yet. But looking at a couple of layout plans got me thinking. What if a standard train cabinet could be used as a vertical fiddle yard ? The main question would be how to move it, so what about a slim TV lifting mechanism, such as this: https://vevor.co.uk/products/800mm-motorised-tv-lift-with-mount-bracket-wireless-controller-for-26-60?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkNuek4S-8gIVDuN3Ch3PywvyEAQYAiABEgKUkvD_BwE I've not taken this any further, but with a bit of thought and consideration for size and weight, the basics of the prototype at least are already commercially available. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted August 20, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 20, 2021 A friend has a home-made version that he built many moons ago. Essentially it is just a series of narrow shelves with a back board. I think it runs on drawer runners mounted vertically. The movement is regulated by a diagonal wire and weight arrangement like an old-fashioned drawing board. It's locked in position by a simple tower bolt (all tracks are permanently live as he uses DCC). 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingEdwardII Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 7 hours ago, Stubby47 said: Nelevator concept exists, but this has not taken the world by storm Well, at £1,600 for the longest OO version, I think I may have an inkling as to why !! More seriously, this is more an automated storage system than a fiddle yard, meaning that if you want to switch a loco from one end to the other or adjust the stock within a train, it can't be done with the Nelevator - you have to do this somewhere else. Yours, Mike. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 20, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 20, 2021 38 minutes ago, KingEdwardII said: More seriously, this is more an automated storage system than a fiddle yard Agreed, and what I've suggested is no different, just perhaps a cheaper (!) alternative. Having seen several railway rooms with an impressive array of trains stored in wall cabinets, it just struck me that it would be really clever if they could also be used to supply those trains to the layout. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 59 minutes ago, Stubby47 said: Agreed, and what I've suggested is no different, just perhaps a cheaper (!) alternative. Having seen several railway rooms with an impressive array of trains stored in wall cabinets, it just struck me that it would be really clever if they could also be used to supply those trains to the layout. Using cassettes, perhaps? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 20, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 20, 2021 Just now, bécasse said: Using cassettes, perhaps? Well, yes, of course cassettes can be used, I was considering a more automated solution Taking @Andrew P's latest plan as an example, the red lines need to be considerably shorter than the black ones, due to the space restrictions. Replacing the black lines with a single line vertical storage system would free up space to lengthen the red lines. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbyhorse Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 This is our take on the fiddle yard, this is for 16mm scale. Simon gw 5 1 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted August 20, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 20, 2021 (edited) The key to making this work would be ensuring repeatably accurate track alignment. Horizontal alignment could be achieved by lugs on the ends of the decks that engage in, and slide through, fixed guides. Vertical alignment depends on how accurately the motor of the lifting mechanism can be controlled. If it doesn't have fine control you could add a little servo to make fine adjustments to the vertical position of each deck. Edited August 20, 2021 by Harlequin 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 20, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 20, 2021 29 minutes ago, hobbyhorse said: This is our take on the fiddle yard, this is for 16mm scale. Simon gw Which is a stunning piece of engineering ! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 20, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 20, 2021 Just now, Harlequin said: The key to making this work would be ensuring repeatably accurate track alignment. Horizontal alignment could be achieved by lugs on the ends of the decks that engage in, and slide through, fixed guides. Vertical alignment depends on how accurately the motor of the lifting mechanism can be controlled. If it doesn't have fine control you could add a little servo to make fine adjustments. Absolutely, and what I was suggesting is far from a finished product. Maybe something as simple as a slide bolt in the baseboard which fits into a large-countersunk hole on each shelf, thus correcting any misalignment/inaccuracy in the shelf height/position. If the shelf is to be used from both ends then a close tolerance between shelf & baseboard would be needed, if only used at one end then a shaped 'knuckle' at the dead end would push the shelf towards the baseboard. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted August 20, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 20, 2021 40 minutes ago, hobbyhorse said: This is our take on the fiddle yard, this is for 16mm scale. 10 minutes ago, Stubby47 said: Which is a stunning piece of engineering ! Yes it is but I'm struggling to understand what problem this is a solution to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 20, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 20, 2021 18 minutes ago, St Enodoc said: Yes it is but I'm struggling to understand what problem this is a solution to. Just because 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 20, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 20, 2021 39 minutes ago, St Enodoc said: Yes it is but I'm struggling to understand what problem this is a solution to. I have the feeling that somebody had been to Falkirk and thought 'I could adapt that idea for a model railway so I'll see if I can?'. It only appears to potentially add two additional roads than could be achieved using cassettes in exactly the same width but cassettes that long would no doubt be rather unwieldy with 16mm gauge trains. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingEdwardII Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 18 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said: I have the feeling that somebody had been to Falkirk Yes - that was exactly my first impression from the picture - "this is inspired by the engineering of the Falkirk Boat Lift!" And a very fine piece of engineering that is, too. It takes up a goodly chunk of space - but then 16mm scale is always going to be pretty hefty - not so easy to just hoick up a loco to move it around! Yours, Mike. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbyhorse Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 1 hour ago, St Enodoc said: Yes it is but I'm struggling to understand what problem this is a solution to. This is the link to our build which should give the a better understanding of the reason we went for this design, we've not done much for a while but hopefully will see some some done in the future. Simon 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibelroad Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 I think this is a really good idea. The only way to progress this is to have a go at building it and then learning from the mistakes as you go. After a few false starts something workable should emerge. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 2 hours ago, hobbyhorse said: This is our take on the fiddle yard, this is for 16mm scale. Simon gw Does this actually work.. Seems to me the only way on or off is at the bottom which is probably the worst place. If the pivots were between spokes the trains could enter above the centre axle. The Falkirk wheel is balanced as the weight in both gondolas is always equal, the G scale one could have a very heavy train one side and an empty gondola opposite to it applying a considerable sideways force to any locking mechanism. It may well work for a ground level G scalei garden layout but I think it needs a change to concept for wider application. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 I think the answer to a vertical lift alignment is for the shelves to support cassettes which float up and down a small amount. They overlap the supports and when ready for alignment the approach tracks slide or drop into place and the cassette lands on them and floats around settling down on tapered pins. Obviously the vertical storage unit needs to go as far up from datum as they do down although a lift could move trains without storage capability, could just move between levels. I believe Rev Peter Denny built one from Meccano when he was considering moving Buckingham to a smaller location. What ever type an OO express is quite a beast at nearly a foot per coach so you need quite a substantial lift, 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted August 20, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 20, 2021 4 hours ago, Stubby47 said: Having seen several railway rooms with an impressive array of trains stored in wall cabinets, it just struck me that it would be really clever if they could also be used to supply those trains to the layout. Trainsafe allows you to do that. Basically clear tubes with rails in. Wall brackets are available so the tubes can be displayed on your layout room wall. When you want to run one of the trains you just take the tube off the wall and connect it to your layout using special adaptor tracks. They mean that items such as APT-E or 4TC plus 33 don’t have to be uncoupled. i’ve got them on two walls of my railway room. I needs some more Trainsafe’s but I’ve not seen anyone importing them recently. 3 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
4901 Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 Check Iain Rice's Mainlines in Modest Spaces, p. 35 for a strain stacker fiddle yard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 It occurs to me that the VEVOR TV lift, which Stubby47 refers to in his OP, could be used for the regular problem of crossing the railway room door opening, by attaching the lifting section to the inside of an IWARD OPENING door. The moveable section of track would be cantilevered from the VEVOR unit at its lowest position allowing it to be lifted clear of adjacent potions of the layout. Positional requirements would be that the hinge edge of the door should give clearance for a full 90 degree swing, (iee. be far enough away from the room corner), and sufficient head room for any scenery. (Andrew P's Viaduct over a deep valley would be an unlikely candidate, although I see that he has an outward opening door so ruling this idea out! The Falkirk wheel is aversion of the Swing tray elevator used in material handling systems. Butterley Engineering had a version in their car park to "stack" employees cars, it did not meet with favour due to the time taken to retrieve a car positioned at the top of the stack ! 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungrange Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 My only comment would be that the original link highlights that its for TVs up to 60". Given that TV sizes are measured on the diagonal, this suggests that the maximum train length that would be able to be accommodated would be about four foot. It may be suitable for short trains or the smaller scales, but not particularly useful for a scale HST in 00 let alone O Gauge. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 22, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 22, 2021 (edited) The spec also gives a weight max of 132lb. Without working out any weights of trains or shelving, provided that maximum was not exceeded, I'd have thought the length of the shelf could be longer than 4ft. However, I'd not really considered this idea as being suitable for scales bigger than OO, perhaps two lifts might be a better option? As I said, it's merely an idea of how to use a type of existing product for a different purpose. Edited August 22, 2021 by Stubby47 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 I've not seen the full specification for the Vevor TV lift... Is there any provision for variable and selective lift height ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greengiant Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 Just stumbled across this thread. I am one of the team who built the rotating fiddle yard. Why did we do this? Basically we did not want to use cassettes and a traverser would be too wide for the six tracks we wanted. So we thought why not have a rotating yard, not seen it done before and will be a challenge. One of our group is used to making aircraft camera mounts and used their skill to devise and create the drive system, This is a video of the first powered drive, Martin 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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