ScotRail to cut services

[mdvle]

23 hours ago, caradoc said:

I fully recognise the decline in passenger numbers, not helped in anyway by the railway industry itself effectively telling people 'if you dare get on a train you will die of Covid, and probably kill your granny too',

 

Another issue at this point is simply the memories of overcrowding.

 

But the far bigger issue is all the people who refuse to wear a mask even when it is mandated - and the government at this point abandoning their responsibility and leaving it up to individual operators to decide means at this point it is simply easier to avoid trains/buses/trams of any form if one can.

 

So, take the train and risk being surrounded by people refusing to wear a mask or drive?  It (sadly) really isn't a difficult decision.

[mdvle]

On 21/08/2021 at 04:41, Pandora said:

 

What are the opinions of the forum on the changes?

How will  the reduced number of services  tie in with the dates in 2022  with the renationalisation of of railway services in Scotland?

Will the changes  be implemented in advance or after the termination of the Abelio franchise?

 

In advance - thus any mistakes that create excessive negative publicity can be blamed on the private operator who is leaving.

[Ray H]

Railway staff aren't exempt from Covid and may be more at risk of catching it. Planned service reductions have to be preferred to ad hoc cancellations surely.

 

[caradoc]

42 minutes ago, Ray H said:

Railway staff aren't exempt from Covid and may be more at risk of catching it. Planned service reductions have to be preferred to ad hoc cancellations surely.

 

Indeed, and for that reason service reductions have been in force for well over a year. These proposals are for the service from May 2022. If Covid is still having a major effect on staffing levels then I would fully agree with planned reductions, but that is not the reason Scotrail are giving. 

[APOLLO]

Sooo - With COP26 coming soon, the demonisation of petrol, diesel and cars in general, the decision is made to cut rail services.

 

Just great.

 

Brit15

[surfsup]

1 hour ago, caradoc said:

 

Indeed, and for that reason service reductions have been in force for well over a year. These proposals are for the service from May 2022. If Covid is still having a major effect on staffing levels then I would fully agree with planned reductions, but that is not the reason Scotrail are giving. 

 

It's still interesting to see ScotRail contradict itself here - Asking people to continue to use Social Distancing where possible, while physically reducing the still 4 coach HSTs down to 3 coaches, while giving the (in the case of last week at least) TF to non existent travelling staff. This in turn led to a number of services on the Aberdeen route I was travelling on leaving stations being full and standing and sitting wherever you liked. I found a good number of the services I used across Scotland to actually be very busy last week - The Borders Railway, which is now Hourly off peak, utilised a 2 car 158 which was full and standing upon leaving Edinburgh - return journey equally as busy, Edinburgh - Dundee - Edinburgh on the Inter7City's, again near full leaving Edinburgh and picked up more passengers enroute. The return journey was again very well used and full and standing leaving Leuchars. On the electrics front, A trip to North Berwick - very busy for an hourly service, and Bathgate (slightly less busy). Yes, these were leisure trips, but these were across the day. 

 

I can only but feel that cutting back a number of these services will only bring positives for Stagecoach and Citylink, and will leave a bad taste in the mouth for ScotRail for a number of years to come, not least after the excellent work carried out largely by First ScotRail over the last few years. Of note, with the changes to the Edinburgh - Perth service to operate as an all stops via Dunfirmline service, not only will that make a slow journey even slower, but it also means the end for the conventional "Fife Circle", with Leven to Edinburgh proposed to run via Kirkcaldy. 

[Ian Hargrave]

This post isn’t strictly connected with cuts in services but may have some bearing on what’s going on. Both last night’s Southbound Sleeper Scot services from Inverness and Fort William were similarly headed by GBRF 66 with 73/9 tucked up behind. Is this current practice and what’s the reason for it ?

[31A]

18 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

This post isn’t strictly connected with cuts in services but may have some bearing on what’s going on. Both last night’s Southbound Sleeper Scot services from Inverness and Fort William were similarly headed by GBRF 66 with 73/9 tucked up behind. Is this current practice and what’s the reason for it ?

 

I don't know whether it's regular, but I saw that myself at Fort William station a couple of weeks ago.  While I was there (1030-1100) the locos were being uncoupled from the 'north' end of the sleeper and run round to the south end.  This also involved splitting the locos so that when they were re-coupled to the train the 73 was still next to the coaches, I presume for ETH power supply reasons.

[DY444]

14 hours ago, mdvle said:

But the far bigger issue is all the people who refuse to wear a mask even when it is mandated - and the government at this point abandoning their responsibility and leaving it up to individual operators to decide means at this point it is simply easier to avoid trains/buses/trams of any form if one can.

 

So, take the train and risk being surrounded by people refusing to wear a mask or drive?  It (sadly) really isn't a difficult decision.

 

Last week I had cause to go to NW London.  As I posted earlier our local train "service" is currently virtually unusable due to a combination of cuts and cancellations so I opted to use the bus and tube. 

 

As you may be aware masks are required to be worn on TfL services so I took an interest in how this was going.  Compliance amongst passengers was patchy.  On the two bus rides it was about 90% compliant; on the tube about 70% compliant. 

 

Amongst the staff I saw compliance was fairly consistent in that hardly any of them were wearing masks!  On the tube journeys there and back I saw 23 LU staff in areas open to the public: 15 station staff, 3 engineering staff inspecting a platform equipment case and a group of 5 train operators chatting on a platform at a station where T/OP changes occur.  Of those 23 only 4 were wearing masks.  I don't know how representative this is of LU staff in general but anecdotally at least it would seem to be not unusual. 

 

If many of the staff don't believe it to be important to wear masks in areas frequented by the public then I'm not clear why the public should believe it.  Indeed I heard one passenger say exactly this to her travelling companion.

Edited August 23, 2021 by DY444

[Ian Hargrave]

23 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

I don't know whether it's regular, but I saw that myself at Fort William station a couple of weeks ago.  While I was there (1030-1100) the locos were being uncoupled from the 'north' end of the sleeper and run round to the south end.  This also involved splitting the locos so that when they were re-coupled to the train the 73 was still next to the coaches, I presume for ETH power supply reasons.

 
Thank you for that.Subsequently,I had a dip into the Scotrail website to discover that it is in fact …and has been for quite a while….practice to use the 73/9 for heating purposes etc.only and Class 66 for traction . 
 

You have to ask….another expensive mistake and a return to the days of the 1980’s ? No wonder the sleeper fares are high .

Edited August 23, 2021 by Ian Hargrave
Adding text

[Pandora]

22 hours ago, JohnR said:

Of course, technically, it's not a cut in services, just not a restoration of the 2019 timetable. 

 

These proposals will mean ScotRail running more trains than they do now.

You have made an  important point about the 2019 timetable,  a milestone  we cannot forecast is the date  when the economy has recovered  from Covid  to match or exceed  the level of activity  pre-Covid,  of the 2009 financial crash,  activity levels of most countries,  required  several years of sustained growth to  restore to pre-crash levels, some have never restored even after 10 years, eg Italy and Greece,  it may therefore prove to be sound financial management to turn back the clock, in the short-term, even the 2019 timetable may be more trains than passenger demand can sustain during  2022

[ejstubbs]

21 hours ago, mdvle said:

and the government at this point abandoning their responsibility and leaving it up to individual operators to decide

 

The ScoGov web site clearly states that face coverings are still required by law on public transport services: https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-public-use-of-face-coverings/pages/where-face-coverings-should-be-worn/

[Legend]

Yeah the rules are different up here in Scotland . You must wear masks on public transport and in shops . Ive not been in public transport since March 2020 , but generally I see mask wearing pretty well observed in shops , so I cant see why transport any different

 

[ejstubbs]

Virtual acquaintance of mine on another forum posted this recently in relation to visitors from over the border attending events in the Edinburgh festivals:

 

Was at first live music event for 18 months.

We got email to remind us to log in using app, and wear face mask during concert.
Drinks were not meant to be taken in but revised to allow.
In venue there were around 100 people spaced out well in a covered area. Bubbles of 2 or 4.
People next to us were up from England and were not wearing face coverings anywhere in venue seated or standing. They were not alone.
My wife sitting one seat away heard guy on phone telling his friends in South that 'some people in Scotland still thought they should wear face masks'

 

Er, that's because they knew they should, and really you had no excuse not to know it too.

[Legend]

1 minute ago, ejstubbs said:

Virtual acquaintance of mine on another forum posted this recently in relation to visitors from over the border attending events in the Edinburgh festivals:

 

Was at first live music event for 18 months.

We got email to remind us to log in using app, and wear face mask during concert.
Drinks were not meant to be taken in but revised to allow.
In venue there were around 100 people spaced out well in a covered area. Bubbles of 2 or 4.
People next to us were up from England and were not wearing face coverings anywhere in venue seated or standing. They were not alone.
My wife sitting one seat away heard guy on phone telling his friends in South that 'some people in Scotland still thought they should wear face masks'

 

Er, that's because they knew they should, and really you had no excuse not to know it too.

 

But to an extent understandable given one bit of the UK is different to the rest on regulations . However, after a polite reminder , if they werent wearing masks I'd have ejected them . 

 

[Ian Hargrave]

17 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

But to an extent understandable given one bit of the UK is different to the rest on regulations . However, after a polite reminder , if they werent wearing masks I'd have ejected them . 

 

If faced with that ultimatum,they’d probably have created an unpleasant scene which might under such circumstances been counter productive. I get what you say though. I get the strong impression that both Scotland and Wales have a more stringent and careful approach to maintaining rules than England. My brother in law yesterday made the long journey from Norfolk to his home in South Wales and this morning complained to me about the behaviour of people at a service station on the M6,when he had to make a necessary pit stop. His words were … “ overcrowded,loud,no social distancing,the worst kind of English “ . 
 

Anyway,I’m shortly to be adopting the role of tourist. from England to Scotland…and I’m really looking forward to it…so I’ll bear in mind to respect the rules north of the border.

[Legend]

2 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

If faced with that ultimatum,they’d probably have created an unpleasant scene which might under such circumstances been counter productive. I get what you say though. I get the strong impression that both Scotland and Wales have a more stringent and careful approach to maintaining rules than England. My brother in law yesterday made the long journey from Norfolk to his home in South Wales and this morning complained to me about the behaviour of people at a service station on the M6,when he had to make a necessary pit stop. His words were … “ overcrowded,loud,no social distancing,the worst kind of English “ . 
 

Anyway,I’m shortly to be adopting the role of tourist. from England to Scotland…and I’m really looking forward to it…so I’ll bear in mind to respect the rules north of the border.

 

Have a great time Ian . If heading there this week temp supposed to get to 24 deg in Scotland . Scorchio!  And I think thats the point , stick to the rules (and its not hard) and you'll have a great time . I still avoid crowds though 

[Ian Hargrave]

4 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

Have a great time Ian . If heading there this week temp supposed to get to 24 deg in Scotland . Scorchio!  And I think thats the point , stick to the rules (and its not hard) and you'll have a great time . I still avoid crowds though 

Many thanks. We’ve avoided the crowded areas .Loch Rannoch is I believe quite remote.

[ejstubbs]

3 hours ago, Legend said:

But to an extent understandable given one bit of the UK is different to the rest on regulations

 

On the other hand, they would have received the same e-mail on booking their tickets that the poster on the other forum did.  And the venue would have had signage up everywhere as well.  There's a limit to how much allowance one might feel prepared to make for wilful ignorance.

[31A]

13 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 
Thank you for that.Subsequently,I had a dip into the Scotrail website to discover that it is in fact …and has been for quite a while….practice to use the 73/9 for heating purposes etc.only and Class 66 for traction . 
 

You have to ask….another expensive mistake and a return to the days of the 1980’s ? No wonder the sleeper fares are high .

 

As you said Ian, a bit off topic for this as the Sleepers are nothing to do with ScotRail but are run by Caledonian Sleepers which is a separate company altogether, but I seem to remember when reading that GBrF were to supply the traction for them the plan was to use pairs of the rebuilt 73s on the non electrified sections; it seems that plan hasn't been entirely successful for reasons unknown to me.

 

[Ian Hargrave]

5 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

As you said Ian, a bit off topic for this as the Sleepers are nothing to do with ScotRail but are run by Caledonian Sleepers which is a separate company altogether, but I seem to remember when reading that GBrF were to supply the traction for them the plan was to use pairs of the rebuilt 73s on the non electrified sections; it seems that plan hasn't been entirely successful for reasons unknown to me.

 

Likewise I can find no evidence of an explanation for this other than just one line on a website to the effect that the function of the 73/9 series….and there are only six of them to cover three separate portions of the SleeperScot….is to provide power for heating and ancillary services to the train only.
 

Traction is provided by other GBRF motive power,namely Class 66 ,though the 73/9 can also work in multiple with 67’s..

 

 Only a guess but I wonder if the introduction of Mk 5 stock and its complexities has proven to be something these refurbished 73’s are not configured for.And again there are precious few of them so there is literally no margin for failure over what are challenging routes.  On the face of it an embarrassment but we don’t know because we have little information other than a statement without explanation.

 

I’m taking a return trip on the Fort William sleeper at the end of next month and will attempt to glean further information then. That is if any is forthcoming .

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Legend]

15 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Many thanks. We’ve avoided the crowded areas .Loch Rannoch is I believe quite remote.

 Yep doesn’t come more remote than that . Nice area . A trip up to Corrour and a walk round the Loch there is a nice activity . 

[Matt]

Some of the most beautiful scenery in the country around there IMHO. Enjoy but take some insect repellent- especially if out later in the day 

[Ian Hargrave]

9 hours ago, Matt said:

Some of the most beautiful scenery in the country around there IMHO. Enjoy but take some insect repellent- especially if out later in the day 

 
My Smidge is on standby 

[ejstubbs]

On 23/08/2021 at 21:27, 31A said:

I seem to remember when reading that GBrF were to supply the traction for them the plan was to use pairs of the rebuilt 73s on the non electrified sections; it seems that plan hasn't been entirely successful for reasons unknown to me.

 

There will always be teething issues with what are effectively new locomotives but those on the 73/9s were addressed early in their life and they've been perform the job they were intended to do well for some time now.

 

A single 73/9 once took an 8 coach portion plus two dead-on-rear 92s from Polmadie to Edinburgh (via the south suburban).  That's an extra 252 tonnes in tow, or the equivalent of a Load 14.  It dropped a few mins but was only single-digits late on arrival at Edinburgh.  That route includes a 1 in 100 climb out of Carstairs, amongst others.

 

The issue these days is that when there's limited spare 73/9s available - e.g. due to maintenance requirements - a 66 goes on the front as the service can't run without a 73/9 (as only the 73/9s and the 92s can couple to the stock).

Bear in mind that the 73/9s also do the CS ECS shunts and other non-revenue movements so they're kept fairly busy over and above hauling the actual sleeper services.  So there isn't a lot of slack in the fleet, but it's unlikely that GBRf feel the need to order more since, as has been noted, they can run a 66+73/9 when the need arises.