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As ever, Johnster’s posts are well worth the trouble of finding and reading carefully. And the comments that he makes in this thread are no exception. I, for one, would , however, be very interested if he would be prepared to describe in more detail what he means by ‘deep cleaning’ and reveal the techniques and materials that he uses to effect this and his maintenance procedures generally. My thanks in anticipation of any reply that he may care to make on this important (in my view, at any rate) subject of getting slow reliable running.

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I think my ultimate rescue was two locos which a child had buried in the garden, and was found “several months” later.

 

Subjects in question where a Hornby class 5 (5241 of 1980’s origin, tender drive) and a Replica class 45128.

 

Both were presented to me after discovery to repair or bin.

 

I think months was stretching it, the class 5 motion / wheels were rusted and locked solid. The class 45 interior was a wash with mud.. literally filled in the body and still damp with it.


Of the two, It was the 45 that was easiest brought back to life, first was a bath for the body. Full strip down of both bogies, including gears, armature, brushes, springs..

I replaced the armature from another knacker in my spares box, and that was it.. once reaseembled it was coaxed back to life.

 

The class 5 was more problematic, In the end I removed the wheels off their axles, knocked the axles out of the frame as they were rusted solid. The motion was never going to turn again, and I ended up cutting it off, but interestingly the screws, whilst the heads were done, I was able to unthread using pliers. I drilled out the rust / remains of the axles, the chassis itself wasnt too bad, very little for its effects.
 

I was able to source new motion and new wheel bushes, plastic rod from b&q cut to length as a new axle and requartered it. Front ponies were salvagable. Motor in the tender survived reasonably well, it needed new traction tyres, new armature and springs. A lot of work with sandpaper,fibre pen and new paint on the wheels.

 

lubed it up and off it went.

 

The class 45 I still have… the class 5.. well I saw a cheap R2881 with loco drive, so I swapped the chassis and tender chassis, renumbered 5241 as 5407 and it still lives with me…

 

but heres the kicker..

 

someone on ebay now owns a rather ropey second hand R2881 with tender drive with a muddy past… but hey £45 and a class 45 for my efforts.

 

 

 

 

 

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Literally every loco I own save one was purchased second hand. Some need a bit of TLC, true, but getting a sound-fitted Dapol 57xx for 180 euros because it needed a few detail bits fixed didn't stink.

Expect any used loco to need TLC. If you don't want to mess with them then new is better, agreed. I for one am only too happy to save what I can on locomotives, in 00 or 0. 

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4 hours ago, Holmside said:

As ever, Johnster’s posts are well worth the trouble of finding and reading carefully. And the comments that he makes in this thread are no exception. I, for one, would , however, be very interested if he would be prepared to describe in more detail what he means by ‘deep cleaning’ and reveal the techniques and materials that he uses to effect this and his maintenance procedures generally. My thanks in anticipation of any reply that he may care to make on this important (in my view, at any rate) subject of getting slow reliable running.

Thank you for your kind comments about my posts!  I will happily oblige re 'deep cleaning' Holmside, at the risk of teaching granny to suck eggs.

 

What I mean by 'deep cleaining' is a complete strip down, throrough clean, and re-assembly of locos, and I do it to new locos as well as second hand because I don't trust the coloured grease lubricant, which attracts crud and can solidify over time, becoming a coagulant rather than a lubricant.

 

Remove the body, and turn the chassis upside down.  Carefully remove the keeper plate, the plastic piece to which the pickups and feed wires to the motor are fixed, gently as the solder joints between the pickup strip and the wires are not designed to be handled and messed about with.  Put the small bolts that hold the keeper plate in a lump of Blutac, Plasticene or even chewing gum to stop them making a break for the border or sacrificing themselves to the carpet monster.  You can now drop the wheels/axle out, with the motion.  Clean the crud and any old lube off the axles, the cog gear, and the motion especially the piston rods, and put them aside safely.  An old toothbrush makes an ideal cleaning tool with the aid of a can of spray switch cleaner.

 

Scrub the old lube and any crud out of the axle channels and from the surfaces of the chassis block in general.  Take the motor out if you can, and give the worm a good cleaning, and clean the old lube from the bearings and anywhere else it lingers. Leave the project for a few hours or overnight while the spray can cleaner thoroughly evaporates off, and carefully relubricate with your chosen lubricant.  I use a non-mineral fine machine oil recommended by my local Antics as safe with plastics and nylon, applied with a hypodermic syringe.  You need to lubricate all the points mentioned in the loco's service sheet that came with it in the box; if you haven't got this you can download it free as a PDF from the manufacturers' website.  If you still can't find it, lubricate wherever a surface moves against another surface.  Use the mimimum amount of lubricant you can manage; too much will attact crud and defeat the object, a very common thing in 'spares and repairs' 2h locos which have started to run badly and their owners flood them with oil in an attempt to get them running properly again.  This might work for a short period, but the crud will overwhelm the mechanics if a fairly short time!  If you don't have a hypo, a drop of oil on the end of pin will be fine.  Less is more...

 

Now, carefully re-assemble the loco.  If it is an outside cylinder model. take the crankpins of the connecting rod big end off with a nut spinner, or screwdriver on old Triang or Triang Hornby locos.  Keep them. and the spacer washer, safe in the lump of whatever you use to keep the small bolts from earlier in, but clean the stuff off the threads when you replace them.  This will make it much easier to replace the piston rods in their holes in the cylinder back faces.  With the piston rods replaced and the crosshead running correctly on the slide bar(s), you then replace the spacing washer and drop the big end over the crank, and replace the crankpin. 

 

The loco should now run as smoothly as it can.  If it doesn't, check that the motion is not binding anywhere, that the coupling and connecting rods are clearing each other and the slide bars, and that you have put the wheels back the right way around.  The coupling and connecting rods have little bosses on the tops to represent the oiling points of the real loco, which indicates the right way to put them in, and most current production locos have the cog gear offset from the centre line so it is impossible to get this wrong.  Also check that the slide bars are parallel and in the correct position.

 

Be patient and methodical, and if your eyes start hurting or hands start shaking (mine do, because I'm old and deteriorating), go away and have a cup of tea and a biccy, then come back to it refreshed and relaxed.  It is, I contend, good practice, as you get to know the intricacies, strengths, and weaknesses of your locos, and where to start the process of elimination in future fault finding.  Each of my locos. like real steam locos, has it's own personality, even with apparently identical models; for example, I have 4 locos running on Bachmann pannier mechanisms, all of which perform in slightly different ways and make slightly different noises.

 

Slow reliable running is of primary importance to me, as is smooth stopping and starting, and I run a DC layout, so it is a biggish ask of the locos.  Current RTR is 'not bad' in this respect but could IMHO be improved and needs all the help it can get!  One is demanding the best performance at the lowest voltages and when there is least momentum and proportionally maximum inertia and frictional resistance to movement.  Also critical is good tracklaying with the pieces joined smoothly and level to each other, especially turnouts, good track, wheel, and pickup hygiene with access to hidden track being dealt with at the planning stage, and careful pickup adjustment so that the pickup strip bears lightly but firmly and reliably on the rear of the wheel across the full range of sideplay and any vertical play.  I find that Bachmann mechs require less hygiene attention less often than Hornby, but a regular regime stays on top of problems.   I use some insulfrog turnouts in the interests of wiring simplicity, and only have a problem with a Hornby W4 Peckett on the very long dead frog of a Hornby 3rd/2nd radius curved turnout in the fiddle yard, so have to give her the beans to get over it!  The other turnouts are Peco Streamline medium radius insulfrogs, with small radius for the loco release shunt.  That apart, my running is pretty good, with a combination of Bachmann pannier, 56x, 45xx/4575, standard 3MT tank, and 94xx mechs, and Hornby W4 and 5101, with a Silurian era Airfix large prairie getting an occasional run as well.  I am in the process of building a 1938 Collett 31xx with another ex Airfix large chassis from the 'might come in handy one day' box, rewheeled. 

 

My slow running is pretty good, though to get the absolute best out of each loco, one must develop an individual driving technique for it.  My required standard is that all the locos can pull or propel all the stock in any combination to or from any point on the layout in any combination at a scale 15mph, and I haven't quite achieved this but am close enough for my normal running purposes.  I have eliminated traction tyres which I consider to be satan's nasal effusions, and plastic wheels, and taken some trouble to ensure coupling and buffer reliability and a standard height above the railhead, not as easy a quest as it should be!  All stock and bogies have to pass the 'mirror test'.  I must be able to place the item upright on a glass surface and be unable to rock it, with the flanges visibly touching their own reflection.  Use Lego bricks to establish squareness and level of wagon kits (and buildings, and anything else where this is relevant).  Lego shop will sell you a plastic pot of as many of any type you want for £6, keep putting them in until you can't close the lid, handy for all sorts of things...

 

Another point is ballasting of locos.  My ideal is to use collapsed star material or unobtainium, crammed in to the maximum possible extent above the driven axles and balanced in the smokebox and bunker.  This is harder in some locos than others, and I sometimes remove the DCC 'ready' board and chip to get a little more in.  I use a combination of 'Liquid Lead' and Milliput with bits of scrap metal in lieu of unobtainium.  I'm told that overballasting can cause excessive wear in mechanisms, but I've never had an issue with this, and the result has always, without exception, been an improvement in pickup and running.  Leave about 2mm around the motor for ventilation and cooling, though. 

 

I try to establish a standard of 10g minimum axle loading for wagons, difficult in the case of unloaded conflats, lowfits, and plastic kit empty opens.  This is important for reliable propelling, and advised for long trains on setrack curves.  Keep the ballast, and hence the centre of gravity, as low as possible; beneath the solebar if you can but it is sometimes difficult to keep it out of sight on RTR wagons.  Lowfits/Loriots are next to impossible in this sense, and the reason I don't have any; they would have been pretty rare in my supposed location anyway!

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7 hours ago, WM183 said:

Literally every loco I own save one was purchased second hand. Some need a bit of TLC, true, but getting a sound-fitted Dapol 57xx for 180 euros because it needed a few detail bits fixed didn't stink.

Expect any used loco to need TLC. If you don't want to mess with them then new is better, agreed. I for one am only too happy to save what I can on locomotives, in 00 or 0. 

Thinking about it, every loco I have has come from eBay. Some were listed as 'new' or 'new - other', some as 'used'. I've only had one issue, a Dapol class 153 with the bogie springs problem. I've tried stretching them, but given up and accepted I'll have to get some official spares. It's a backup unit I want to renumber once I've learnt how, so no great loss for what I paid for it. It can sit on the inspection pit in the 'yard' until working properly.

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I recently acquired several 00 gauge loco chassis and some 5 mixed bogies from ebay.

Two were Bachmann 37's ( one with a missing bogie)

One Bachmann diesel 1-Co Co-1 chassis with bogies

One Co Co diesel chassis

One unidentified peak or Class 40 chassis.

 

A little research soon identified the co co as a Heljan 47 and two of the spare bogies looked like they belonged to the 47 but no bogie clips or drive shaft.

One of the bogies looked like it belonged to the Bachmann 37.

 

All seemed to have motors , but only the co co had a PCB.

 

Anyway I bid and won the lot for the sum of £102.

 

I enjoyed opening the box and soon found my research was correct.

I found Bachmann class 45 drive shaft  fit the Heljan 47, but I did have to fabricate some bogie gear tower clips as Heljan don't have spares.

 

So after a little soldering I now have 2 working class 37's , a working Heljan 47( no mazak rot either)

and a working class 45 chassis.

 

The fifth one is an earlier style Bachmann 45 ( central motor) and the drive down through the years works well but it's missing bogie frames and wheels. 

 

I had 2 x Vi train class 37 bodyshells( £8 each from a show) and will look out for a Heljan 47 and2 x  Bachmann peak bodyshells at future shows.

 

The 47 had a pcb and is now DCC fitted, others were DC and I'll fit s decoder sockets to them all in due course .

 

So at around £25 each and if you add say £25/£30 for the two missing bodyshells that's still around £50 per loco.

 

Of course, having a decent selection of spares does help, and the ability to make things like the bogie clips. but there are still bargains but they tend to be things which most modelled would put in the ' too much trouble category.

 

 

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The only problem with a Tri-ang 2-6-2T would be finding spares that don't cost an arm and a leg. One of mine needs the valve gear. It looks like I might have to make some  :( . At least then I can sort out the return crank that points the wrong way.

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On the motor, check the copper pole pieces on the commutator. Where the solder to the windings attach, check they have not lifted. (Dry joint) Resolder/apply a little heat. This has been successful for me about 65% of the time. Failing that, try a new magnet. Neo types are available. As for the wheel flanges, get a coarse-ish file and give 'em two strokes all the way round then smooth and polish with wet 'n' dry sand-paper. Trust me, they will be transformed. And you don't have to replace them! :locomotive:

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Find the cheapest Triang/Hornby loco on the 'bay, early acetate jinty or Princess. Typically sell for a fiver. Or.....find the end of the missing wire on the armature, unravel from the core and resolder. Another dodge I've done. 50% success rate...:D

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19 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

The only problem with a Tri-ang 2-6-2T would be finding spares that don't cost an arm and a leg. One of mine needs the valve gear. It looks like I might have to make some  :( . At least then I can sort out the return crank that points the wrong way.

Hi,

Yes I won the Triang 3mt tank

I already have all the spares I need. One of the chassis comes with a complete set of valve gear. I have worked on several over the past few years. The picture below is the last one I did. The other pictures are of the 3mt The back body appears to be in virtually mint condition. One of the reasons I bought it. I have have also just bought plus a collection of chassis for other projects. All for a very reasonable price.

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Edited by cypherman
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  • 1 month later...

Hi all,

Ok here is the new 2-6-2 2mt/3mt(never sure which one it is supposed to be?). Plus a B12 I built up from the 4-6-0 chassis from the parts I got in the above spares boxes. I already had the tender. So it cost me a couple of pounds for the body. Plus and I know this is not an engine But a Lima crane that has come out quite nicely after a paint and a bit of weathering. Reason it is here is that it cost me the princely sum of £7.00 from Ebay. So all I say is look at what your getting. Ask questions and do not expect a 100% mint engine secondhand.

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3MT, Cypherdude.  2MT is not dissimilar in general appearance and I understand why someone might get confused, but the size difference is quite apparent when you see the two classes together.  Other giveaways are the slimmer, taller chimney, lower running plate, and the number beneath the cab window on the 2MT (the last built ‘production’ 3MT, 82044, also had this). 
 

The BR standard 2MT tank, 84xxx, were a development of the 2MT mogul tender engine, 78xxx shortly to be introduced by Hornby, and both classes are in turn closely based on the Ivatt LMS 2MT mogul and 2-6-2T.  Most parts are common to both classes, though some Ivatt moguls had different chimneys.  
 

The 3MT was a completely new design, though it used a boiler which was very closely based on a domed version of the Swindon standard no.2, perhaps not surprisingly as Swindon were respondible for the final design and building of these locos. 

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4 hours ago, The Johnster said:

3MT, Cypherdude.  2MT is not dissimilar in general appearance and I understand why someone might get confused, but the size difference is quite apparent when you see the two classes together.  Other giveaways are the slimmer, taller chimney, lower running plate, and the number beneath the cab window on the 2MT (the last built ‘production’ 3MT, 82044, also had this). 
 

The BR standard 2MT tank, 84xxx, were a development of the 2MT mogul tender engine, 78xxx shortly to be introduced by Hornby, and both classes are in turn closely based on the Ivatt LMS 2MT mogul and 2-6-2T.  Most parts are common to both classes, though some Ivatt moguls had different chimneys.  
 

The 3MT was a completely new design, though it used a boiler which was very closely based on a domed version of the Swindon standard no.2, perhaps not surprisingly as Swindon were respondible for the final design and building of these locos. 

Hi,

Thanks for the information. At least i now know which one is which.

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Hi all,

And the 2nd hand keeps on giving.

I have just got what I believe to be a most wonderful 2nd hand bargain. So this is what happened. I was going to my local computer shop with SWMBO when I saw that a collectables and curios shop had opened next door but one. In the window they had an old Hornby 6 wheeled milk van boxed and in mint condition. So as you do I thought I'm having that and went in and bought it. Only cost £5.00. So I am happy. The guy running the shop then told me that he had a box full of railway stuff that I could have for £100.00. The box was about the size of a tea chest. Now my wife bless her wanted somethings from the shop and after a bit of bargaining the price all the things we wanted the price dropped to £90.00( I also got a Boxed 1980's Corgi diecast metal Captain Scarlet Angel Interceptor) plus the things she wanted. I hope you all have partners and wives like mine as she told me to stop messing about and buy the box of stuff basically unseen. What could I do but obay....... :), The only thing I could see clearly was a boxed Hornby Zero 1 controller that was on the top. So I did as I was told.

When I got home this is what I found in the box. Now bear in mind that everything I found in the box is brand new and still in it's original wrappings and packaging.

All of the below are genuine Hornby.

1/ 3 curved points.

2/ 11 standard points

3/ 8 full 4th radius curves

4/ 8 full 3rd radius curves

5/ 8 full 2nd radius curves

6/ 10 standard straights 12ins ?

7 15 half straights

8/ 9 1/4 straights

10/ 1 box of the smallest straight you can get with 20 in it.

11/ 1 box of 8 buffer stops

12 / 2 sets of R658 incline piers

13/ 2 sets of the railings that go along the side of the inclined track

14/ 1 Hornby girder bridge

15/ Hornby R410 turntable.

16/ 1 pack of Hornby track pins unopened.

17/ Superquick coal yard kit. 

18/ 1 Hornby standard controller

19 Superquick station building kit.

20/ Superquick signal cabin kit

21/ 10 2nd radius half curves

22/ 8 3rd radius half curves.

The only thing that I cannot guarantee as brand new are the:

23/ Hornby Zero 1 controller

24/ 2 zero 1 chip sets plus the paint needed

Plus a bag of assorted modelling kit. Brushes, Forceps, Swann Morton craft knife and paint.

As I said all of these items except the Zero and modules are boxed/packaged and brand new and never been used. The points alone are worth more than I paid for the whole lot.

 

And on top of that. This B12 I bought off Ebay also arrived. Now this was sold as a none runner. All it needed was a service as it looked like it had never been run and just used for display. The bearings for the wheels and motor were dry and stiff. From the documentation on the box this engine looks like it has been professionally upgraded and repainted. 

It has all the usual things such as vacuum pipes, Front and rear hooks with 3 link couplings, Lamp brackets, real coal, Front rail guards, Separate Westinghouse pump and new buffers. But also new wheels. The tender has also been given a new sub frame to hold it's wheels instead of the original pinpoint axels

It has also been given a full repaint and lining and also the cab details have also been picked out. The tender and the drawbar have been modified so that it is coupled much more closely.

The engine runs like a dream now.

And how much i hear you say did I pay for this engine. A measly £30.00.

So the moral to this story is NEVER automatically say No to 2nd hand. Just see what there is and is it worth buying. You will be surprised what you can find.

 

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Edited by cypherman
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  • 10 months later...

I have 15 locomotives, of which 11 were bought second-hand, 5 from major on-line vendors, 1 from a model shop long gone, 1 from an exhibition, and 4 from eBay.  I have been happy with all my purchases, with one exception.  That was the locomotive I bought at the exhibition.  Carried away by impulse, I overpaid for something flawed: I should have walked away.  So I now have some rules.  First, I don’t buy on impulse; it has to be something I really want.  Secondly, I do my research on the problems and issues; this site is great for that.  Thirdly, I check prices.  The eBay “sold” listing is a great guide.  Whatever prices are being proposed, what they are actually sold for is a reality check to guide my bidding.  And finally, “if in doubt, don’t”.  Every time I have broken that one, I have paid the price.

 

Besides locomotives, I have bought plenty of rolling stock on eBay.  Sometimes I have bought pristine examples, but at a keen price because I knew what the going price was.  And I am happy to buy wrecks, as long as the body and paintwork are in reasonable condition.  I expect to do repairs; wheels to be replaced, replacement gangway connectors to be made, glazing to be sorted, and couplings to be replaced.   But I have never had a write-off, and it can be a lot of fun: real modelling!

 

So, Hattons happened to have a bargain sale, which featured “Eclipse”, a Bachmann Class 42 I coveted.  It was on sale for a month or so at £70, with no takers.  Not surprising for a locomotive dating from 1998, in a box describes as “fair”, and it not being photographed out of the box.  But in the bargain sale, the price dropped to £52, and in reading the small print, the bodywork was described as “pristine”, though there was no mention of performance.  So the question was whether to trust Hattons and take the risk.  Given the price, I thought it worth a punt, and “Eclipse” was mine.

 

Opening the box, what did I find?  It was pristine, except the British Railways logo had been removed.  Why?  Who knows!  At one end a front fairing had been fitted but not secured, the coupling consequently removed, and pipework added, badly.  All this was soon sorted.  However, one of the sprung buffers had been fixed in the retracted position.  I haven’t been able to move it: I fear superglue at work.

 

Given the age of the locomotive, before trial running, I took it apart and lubricated and greased all I could.  Lucky I did.  I was not the first to disassemble it.  When a previous owner had done so, the wheels had been put back in a way that bent and distorted the current collectors.  No problem:  nifty work with tweezers restored them and all the greasy dust was removed, too.  Result?  The locomotive ran perfectly.

 

I bought “Eclipse” because I wanted to convert it into one of the early Warships which started their careers with discs and a GWR-type three figure reporting number.  There used to be a kit for this, but there doesn’t appear to be one now, and to buy just the reporting number frame with number transfers, plus a headboard for “The Mayflower” would have cost over £25.  Therefore this had to be a DIY job.  Creativity with Plasticard and Photoshop produced the frame, and my Heljan Class 28 yielded some spare discs.  So the cost was just £2.50 for paint.

 

She also had to be renamed and renumbered because “Eclipse” never had discs.  The alternative to buying transfers for the numbers was to alter them by (a very steady) hand.  “Eclipse” is D816.  I decided that the “6” could be altered to “0”, so “Eclipse”, graced with Shawplan’s finest nameplates, became D810 “Cockade”.  And here she is, ready to haul a string of ex-GWR coaches, for we have stepped back in time to 1959!

 

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I have grown rather fond of her in the way one does of a “rescue” dog.  She is no longer a neglected bog-standard Bachmann Class 42.  She now has a unique and special place in my collection.  But I could only have contemplated doing this with a bargain second-hand purchase!  So, for me, deffo second-hand!

 

P.S.  The Collett “sunshine” coach she is hauling was a rescue job, too!

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1 hour ago, teeinox said:

I have 15 locomotives, of which 11 were bought second-hand, 5 from major on-line vendors, 1 from a model shop long gone, 1 from an exhibition, and 4 from eBay.  I have been happy with all my purchases, with one exception.  That was the locomotive I bought at the exhibition.  Carried away by impulse, I overpaid for something flawed: I should have walked away.  So I now have some rules.  First, I don’t buy on impulse; it has to be something I really want.  Secondly, I do my research on the problems and issues; this site is great for that.  Thirdly, I check prices.  The eBay “sold” listing is a great guide.  Whatever prices are being proposed, what they are actually sold for is a reality check to guide my bidding.  And finally, “if in doubt, don’t”.  Every time I have broken that one, I have paid the price.

 

Besides locomotives, I have bought plenty of rolling stock on eBay.  Sometimes I have bought pristine examples, but at a keen price because I knew what the going price was.  And I am happy to buy wrecks, as long as the body and paintwork are in reasonable condition.  I expect to do repairs; wheels to be replaced, replacement gangway connectors to be made, glazing to be sorted, and couplings to be replaced.   But I have never had a write-off, and it can be a lot of fun: real modelling!

 

So, Hattons happened to have a bargain sale, which featured “Eclipse”, a Bachmann Class 42 I coveted.  It was on sale for a month or so at £70, with no takers.  Not surprising for a locomotive dating from 1998, in a box describes as “fair”, and it not being photographed out of the box.  But in the bargain sale, the price dropped to £52, and in reading the small print, the bodywork was described as “pristine”, though there was no mention of performance.  So the question was whether to trust Hattons and take the risk.  Given the price, I thought it worth a punt, and “Eclipse” was mine.

 

Opening the box, what did I find?  It was pristine, except the British Railways logo had been removed.  Why?  Who knows!  At one end a front fairing had been fitted but not secured, the coupling consequently removed, and pipework added, badly.  All this was soon sorted.  However, one of the sprung buffers had been fixed in the retracted position.  I haven’t been able to move it: I fear superglue at work.

 

Given the age of the locomotive, before trial running, I took it apart and lubricated and greased all I could.  Lucky I did.  I was not the first to disassemble it.  When a previous owner had done so, the wheels had been put back in a way that bent and distorted the current collectors.  No problem:  nifty work with tweezers restored them and all the greasy dust was removed, too.  Result?  The locomotive ran perfectly.

 

I bought “Eclipse” because I wanted to convert it into one of the early Warships which started their careers with discs and a GWR-type three figure reporting number.  There used to be a kit for this, but there doesn’t appear to be one now, and to buy just the reporting number frame with number transfers, plus a headboard for “The Mayflower” would have cost over £25.  Therefore this had to be a DIY job.  Creativity with Plasticard and Photoshop produced the frame, and my Heljan Class 28 yielded some spare discs.  So the cost was just £2.50 for paint.

 

She also had to be renamed and renumbered because “Eclipse” never had discs.  The alternative to buying transfers for the numbers was to alter them by (a very steady) hand.  “Eclipse” is D816.  I decided that the “6” could be altered to “0”, so “Eclipse”, graced with Shawplan’s finest nameplates, became D810 “Cockade”.  And here she is, ready to haul a string of ex-GWR coaches, for we have stepped back in time to 1959!

 

Cockade-1.jpg.2a31bf55a2c2335f0a995abd480338bf.jpg

 

I have grown rather fond of her in the way one does of a “rescue” dog.  She is no longer a neglected bog-standard Bachmann Class 42.  She now has a unique and special place in my collection.  But I could only have contemplated doing this with a bargain second-hand purchase!  So, for me, deffo second-hand!

 

P.S.  The Collett “sunshine” coach she is hauling was a rescue job, too!

 

The conversion set to which you refer was by Craftsman. A supplier long gone sadly.

 

The loco looks good and obviously was in excellent condition, so a real bargain. You might think about restoring the BR emblems sometime.

 

As a DC operator I actually prefer these early Bachmann Warship chassis to the ones they put in their Class 43's. The gearing on the latter isn't great at all on DC for slow running, whereas the early ones always seem to run really nicely, my four (or five?) do anyway!

 

John.

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I find it's the rescue locos and the conversions which give most pleasure, especially when you sell them on at a big profit!    Of the locos I currently own just one , a Hornby class 67 was bought new and remains in shop standard condition, and that's because it was a present from my son, everything else has either been second hand or modified, though actually there are only four others I had new, two 45XX Prairies, one 1978 on 2005, a MN and a 1361 tank. The other 50 odd were second hand and the heavily modified ones are my favourites.  

I seriously need to do an audit of exactly how many locos I own... or not. Life's too short.

 

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Hi all,

I am surprised to see this thread still going. Well, since my last post, I have continued to buy more second hand engines. Quite a few to be honest. Now my wife is very good concerning my addictive model engine habit, But I think even she may wince a bit with what I have bought over the past few months..... lol. Some I really want I will keep and others I will pass on when the time comes. I do not have the room to keep everything I buy, sadly. Just nice to play with them for a while.

Mainline rebuilt Patriot.JPG

Mainline J52.JPG

Dapol J90.JPG

Triang M7 Olive green.JPG

Triang M7 BR black.JPG

Hornby Tornado.JPG

Hornby Green Balck 5.JPG

DSC_1303.JPG

Triang Black 5 early 1.JPG

DSC_1298.JPG

Edited by cypherman
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3 hours ago, teeinox said:

I have 15 locomotives, of which 11 were bought second-hand, 5 from major on-line vendors, 1 from a model shop long gone, 1 from an exhibition, and 4 from eBay.  I have been happy with all my purchases, with one exception.  That was the locomotive I bought at the exhibition.  Carried away by impulse, I overpaid for something flawed: I should have walked away.  So I now have some rules.  First, I don’t buy on impulse; it has to be something I really want.  Secondly, I do my research on the problems and issues; this site is great for that.  Thirdly, I check prices.  The eBay “sold” listing is a great guide.  Whatever prices are being proposed, what they are actually sold for is a reality check to guide my bidding.  And finally, “if in doubt, don’t”.  Every time I have broken that one, I have paid the price.

 

Besides locomotives, I have bought plenty of rolling stock on eBay.  Sometimes I have bought pristine examples, but at a keen price because I knew what the going price was.  And I am happy to buy wrecks, as long as the body and paintwork are in reasonable condition.  I expect to do repairs; wheels to be replaced, replacement gangway connectors to be made, glazing to be sorted, and couplings to be replaced.   But I have never had a write-off, and it can be a lot of fun: real modelling!

 

So, Hattons happened to have a bargain sale, which featured “Eclipse”, a Bachmann Class 42 I coveted.  It was on sale for a month or so at £70, with no takers.  Not surprising for a locomotive dating from 1998, in a box describes as “fair”, and it not being photographed out of the box.  But in the bargain sale, the price dropped to £52, and in reading the small print, the bodywork was described as “pristine”, though there was no mention of performance.  So the question was whether to trust Hattons and take the risk.  Given the price, I thought it worth a punt, and “Eclipse” was mine.

 

Opening the box, what did I find?  It was pristine, except the British Railways logo had been removed.  Why?  Who knows!  At one end a front fairing had been fitted but not secured, the coupling consequently removed, and pipework added, badly.  All this was soon sorted.  However, one of the sprung buffers had been fixed in the retracted position.  I haven’t been able to move it: I fear superglue at work.

 

Given the age of the locomotive, before trial running, I took it apart and lubricated and greased all I could.  Lucky I did.  I was not the first to disassemble it.  When a previous owner had done so, the wheels had been put back in a way that bent and distorted the current collectors.  No problem:  nifty work with tweezers restored them and all the greasy dust was removed, too.  Result?  The locomotive ran perfectly.

 

I bought “Eclipse” because I wanted to convert it into one of the early Warships which started their careers with discs and a GWR-type three figure reporting number.  There used to be a kit for this, but there doesn’t appear to be one now, and to buy just the reporting number frame with number transfers, plus a headboard for “The Mayflower” would have cost over £25.  Therefore this had to be a DIY job.  Creativity with Plasticard and Photoshop produced the frame, and my Heljan Class 28 yielded some spare discs.  So the cost was just £2.50 for paint.

 

She also had to be renamed and renumbered because “Eclipse” never had discs.  The alternative to buying transfers for the numbers was to alter them by (a very steady) hand.  “Eclipse” is D816.  I decided that the “6” could be altered to “0”, so “Eclipse”, graced with Shawplan’s finest nameplates, became D810 “Cockade”.  And here she is, ready to haul a string of ex-GWR coaches, for we have stepped back in time to 1959!

 

Cockade-1.jpg.2a31bf55a2c2335f0a995abd480338bf.jpg

 

I have grown rather fond of her in the way one does of a “rescue” dog.  She is no longer a neglected bog-standard Bachmann Class 42.  She now has a unique and special place in my collection.  But I could only have contemplated doing this with a bargain second-hand purchase!  So, for me, deffo second-hand!

 

P.S.  The Collett “sunshine” coach she is hauling was a rescue job, too!

 

There were a few other external differences between the disc-fitted Warships and the rest but putting these right would require extra work and a full repaint, which you understandably wanted to avoid - it looks the part, that's the main thing.

The sprung buffers on these are a known problem - if the plastic stem's retaining squashed end fails the buffer head falls out (Bachmann Deltics are also prone to this) and on some versions the entire buffer is easily knocked off as there's precious little contact area to glue without jamming it up. If the one retracted buffer head bothers you, consider gluing them all in.......😉

 

 

2 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

 

As a DC operator I actually prefer these early Bachmann Warship chassis to the ones they put in their Class 43's. The gearing on the latter isn't great at all on DC for slow running, whereas the early ones always seem to run really nicely, my four (or five?) do anyway!

 

John.

 

That's my dilemma, now resolved I think. I'm DC as well and have a maroon D806 and blue 870 - both to be renumbered when I get a round tuit. I had decided to replace these 'ancient' models with new Class 43 versions and obtained D838 and 842 while available for less than £100 from KMRC. However, superb though they look, the running resulting from the poor gearing - especially for a BLT - is an issue which has made me think again. I have no intention to replace the pair of Bachmann Class 25s and Heljan 47 and 52 they will run alongside, as these are already as I want them livery- and detail-wise (for late summer 1971) - and as time passes I've started caring less and the older Warships will do after all. So the 43s will get moved on to somebody who will appreciate the DCC socket, which I won't use, and lighting, which I don't need. Also the two older models cost me the same as one of the newer ones, as did the two 25s. I'm retired now (I wasn't when I bought the 43s) so upgrading everything is beyond my current modelling budget, even if I was inclined to.

Oh, and I won't have to fit all those roof vents/eyelets and bogie steps either (although I will retain a maroon D865 to run with my Kernow blue D600).

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6 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

 

The conversion set to which you refer was by Craftsman. A supplier long gone sadly.

 

The loco looks good and obviously was in excellent condition, so a real bargain. You might think about restoring the BR emblems sometime.

 

As a DC operator I actually prefer these early Bachmann Warship chassis to the ones they put in their Class 43's. The gearing on the latter isn't great at all on DC for slow running, whereas the early ones always seem to run really nicely, my four (or five?) do anyway!

 

John.

Yes, I have been looking out for the BR emblems.  Not seen any bargains online; I shall look around at an exhibition for them I think.  But yes, they need to be, and will be, restored.

 

Interesting what you say about the Bachmann 43s.  I did my research on those, and really concluded that there were too many problems:  the gearing and the electrical pickup arrangements, too.  All solvable with DCC and a bit of soldering, but that is not where I am at.  So I stick with the Class 42 and its bullet-proof motor.  But since I have "Glory" as well, which I equipped with lights at one end, I am stocking up with selected spares for what are elderly locomotives.  Bachmann sell a useful selection at well under eBay prices.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Most of my second-hand purchases are rolling stock.  During lockdown, I bought quite a lot, maybe more than I should, so I thought it might be entertaining to review some of the “Star” purchases!

 

Four Hornby-Dublo Super Detail coaches for £30.

This was from a dealer who clearly just wanted rid of them.  I already had quite a number, but needed a few more maroon ones to form a complete early 1960s “Cornishman” set.  The problems with these 60-year-old coaches are legion.  The killer is the condition of the lithographed tinplate sides.  If they are rusted, fading or badly scratched, there is not a thing you can do other than bin them.  The vendor’s photos seemed to suggest they were reasonable, so, given the price, it was worth a punt.

 

The collection consisted of two composites and two brake seconds.  Two were boxed, all were on compensated bogies, and all the wheels were staggeringly filthy.  One composite turned out to be as pristine as they come.  The other composite had slight distortion in the sides, soon corrected, but a seriously damaged bogie and the chassis was a write off.  One brake second had pristine bodywork, but a chassis with minor dents and paint chips.  It also sported 3-rail wheels (!).  All easily sorted, thanks to my ample Hornby-Dublo spares box.  The other brake second had a seriously compromised body, but a reasonable chassis.  So the body was binned and the chassis replaced the bad one on the composite.  Result: 3 very decent coaches, and the missing box was sourced from Cooper Trains.  So here is “Cockade” hauling these coaches, forming the winter portion of the Cornishman.  With 2 composites, there is too much 1st Class in the consist, but maybe there were a lot of posh travellers that day going for a winter break at the Imperial Hotel, Torquay.

 

HD-1.jpg.bbaa80574bc753b4b4fe0e03545c28f2.jpg

 

I know the coaches are not scale length, but the depth of colour, flush windows and their shininess makes them look really good.  The only problem is that few locomotives can haul the complete “Cornishman” set of 10 such heavy and stiff coaches.  The Bachmann class 42s cannot without overheating, but my Lima Western Enterprise romps, or should I say, screams away.

 

One Jouef CC 40100 TEE locomotive and four matching TEE-PBA coaches for £50

This was irresistible.  The models are of the “Ile de France” TEE set which operated between Paris, Brussels, and Amsterdam (thus “PBA”).  When introduced in 1964, it was the last word in comfort and modernity with air-conditioning, lavish appointments, stainless steel exterior and with motive power capable of operating on 4 different electrification systems.  As such it was iconic in symbolising European integration.  Mind you, it was 1st Class only to keep out the riff-raff!

 

I already had a tatty example of the locomotive along with 6 coaches.  They were sold by Jouef in the U.K. as part of the Playcraft range.  But Jouef only made the generator and open coaches, while the 10-coach rake featured no less than two restaurant cars AND a bar car (lavish catering was de-rigeur for the Eurocrats of the day!), and compartment coaches.  My aim was to rebuild some of the open coaches into these missing types.

 

The research took months.  Most of the technical descriptions are Belgian because their technical input was considerable, and they were immensely proud of these trains.  So I had a lot of fun understanding Belgian-French.  I am still wondering about the “contemporary” artworks by leading Belgian artists that decorated the bulkheads of the open coaches.  Who were these artists?  I need to know!

 

The condition of the coaches was poor, especially the bogies.  But out of the 10 available, I ended up with 9 viable coaches.  There is a French business that supplies replacement interiors, but since Brexit they do not post to the Royaume-Uni.  So replacement interiors had to be built from scratch.  The compartment coach, with its extraordinary corridor partition made entirely from glass, was so tricky that whereas I meant to do two, one was all I could manage.  Interior colours were a problem since colour photographs are rare and textual descriptions vague.  But my styling consultants suggested coffee and orange as suitable colours for the bar car, so here is its interior:

 

TEE-2.jpg.6793c76c4459ebd1d9362f0cf1930b52.jpg

 

Making the casual chairs for the bar area nearly drove me nuts, but representing the classic “sticking out” legs just had to be done to create that 1960s ambience!  The two locomotives were combined into one, the body and motor of one being equipped with the chassis and pantographs of the other.  The motor is pathetic.  The locomotive cannot haul 9 coaches, but can manage 6 - just!  Still, as the train goes round, I play Kraftwerk’s “Trans Europ Express” to accompany it, the perfect match!  Here it is, hauling the Brussels-Amsterdam 4-coach portion:

 

TEE-1.jpg.aab7254fc69ad08e791eef25f9f61a15.jpg

 

Three Wrenn United Dairies milk tank wagons at £8 each.

I already had 3 of the original Hornby-Dublo ones.  I bought them cheap years ago, but now they sell for a lot more than I am prepared to pay.  But 3 is not enough for a milk train.  Anyway, Elaines Trains was selling three of the Wrenn version for £8 each.  Elaine, who is always very frank about condition, described them as “grubby”.  And so they were.  In the case of two, disassembly followed by cleaning revealed them as almost Persil white.  A touch-up of the black paint chips and conversion to Hornby-Dublo couplings, and they were ready to go.  Same process with the third, except it had been ”weathered” quite horribly.  Still, it improved with cleaning to an acceptable appearance.  So here they are, behind “Cockade”, with the “weathered” one leading.  The fourth in the consist is a Hornby-Dublo one.

 

Milk-1.jpg.e8dd4e1f2119a8e632e3410e4433b6be.jpg

 

As you can see from the photo, Cockade’s British Railways crests have now been restored with Realtec transfers.  The next thing I need to do is to model the single tail-light which sits above the reporting number frame, but I haven’t yet thought how.  I ought to add the top disc too, but it is so disfiguring, I just can’t bring myself to do it.

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I love these Hornby Dublo "super detail" coaches and have quite a few hidden away in a cupboard.  One was in rather poor condition with some rust on a small part of the body work, so I decided to see if I could bring it up to a more modern standard.  So I dis-assembled the coach it and then, using the printed handrails and door handles as a template, drilled new holes for eventual replacements before rubbing the rust affected part of the body down to bare metal.  However I then decided to remove all the paint which I did by dunking the coach in an ultrasonic bath for 50 minutes.  I've now primed it and will proceed to paint it crimson and cream before adding new handrails and door handles.  I'll be interested to see how it turns out.

 

DT

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