More Signals at Hessle Haven & Scarborough

[Rick White]

...

The only things I do, which many others don't, are simply try and then persevere until it's right, as right as I can achieve; that's all I do.

...

 

Well i have to agree with your modelling philosophy also. Very well stated and very encouraging to all modellers, Mike.

 

Rick

[mikemeg]

Much of what I do, on these things, is trial and error. It's a case of deciding how I want to do something and then seeing if it is possible or, more precisely, whether I can do it. So here's a case in point.

 

On all of the signals which I have made to date, and they are all upper quadrant, I have looped the operating wire through the signal spectacle casting and through the balance lever. On these I decided to try and get closer to the prototype, especially as the fixing on the MSE NER lower quadrant arm doesn't lend itself to that approach.

 

So, I first formed a small tongue from .8 mm x .010" nickel silver, into which a .4 mm hole was drilled. This then had a 2mm tang filed onto it approximately .4 mm wide. Using a 4mm length of 1/32" tube, this was drilled out to .4 mm and the tang of the tongue was soldered into the tube. So far so good; this worked ok. The tongue with the hole in it fits between the two operating arms, with not a lot to spare.

 

A piece of .4 mm wire was then threaded through the actuating arm on the signal arm and through the tongue and then soldered to the actuating arm, taking care not to solder the whole thing up rigid. The tube assembly will now pivot within the two parts of the actuating arm.

 

The actual operating rod, formed from .3 mm wire will simply push into the remaining 2 mm of the tube and be either soldered in or superglued into the rod. This should also allow some fine adjustment of the length of the operating rod, once cut.

 

The whole thing took just ten minutes and should look far better than a bent wire.

 

The operating wire, on the photographs, is not fixed but just pushed into the tube to show the principle. This should also allow the shaping of the two operating rods - there is a home and a distant on this doll - to be done much more easily.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

The first doll is now assmbled and will be left for a day to set before the final finishing and the chamfers added to the section below the slot.

 

This signal, as with most NER brackets, gantries and bridges used a shortened arm 5' 0" against the 5' 6" used on single post signals. Those arms look a little too wide to me; they should be 3 mm a scale 9"; those are > 3.7 mm, > a scale 11", so I shall narrow them slightly, as soon as the doll is set.

 

I still have to add the arm bearing plates, spectacle plates and lamps, finial and the various balance levers and operating rods before this doll can be assembled into the lattice bridge.

 

The photo on the left shows the doll asembled with the arms as supplied. The one on the right has had the arms very slightly reduced in width, down to around 3.3 mm or a scale 10". Given that it took only five minutes to do, for each arm, was it worth it; I think so?

 

Amazing how just reducing the width of the arms by that small amount, really accentuates the NER 'flavour' of these things!

 

The origin of the slotted post signal lay in the time when any failure along the linkage to a signal arm, would cause the arm to drop and disappear into the slot in the post - no signal indicated danger. Slotted posts with a slot long enough to accommodate the arm continued to be made and installed up to about 1924 after which the slot was made just long enough to allow the arm to move but not to disappear. Old habits died hard on the pre-grouping railways!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

Here's another of those black and white photos. This one seems to have been taken from the landing of Washbeck Signal Box, looking through the Washbeck signal bridge towards the loco shed.

 

This Washbeck signal bridge had lattice girders around 3' 0" deep so I still have to work out the sizing details on this one and then make the drawing.

 

Look at the signal bridge in the middle distance. This one spanned five roads and four sidings so even at the minimum spacing (nine x 5' 0" plus 8 x 6' 0" plus at least four feet at each end) this thing spanned over a hundred feet. There was a similar signal bridge at Holgate, York, with a similar span.

 

That trackwork looks pretty interesting too, with slips and scissors crossovers on the curve, three way turnouts, etc.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Gallows Close]

This Washbeck signal bridge had lattice girders around 3' 0" deep so I still have to work out the sizing details on this one and then make the drawing.

 

Look at the signal bridge in the middle distance.

 

Hi Mike,

 

The photo is indeed the Washbeck signal bridge. I would say (from the theatre indicator) that this photo post dates the closure of the loco sheds on 20 May 1963. The brackets from the original indicator board can be seen on the right-most wooden doll as two horizontal black lines.

 

The bridge in the middle distance is the Gasworks gantry. This bridge was supported by a lattice 'A' frame at each end - a true monster. Do you need detail on the 'A' frame?

 

Cheers,

Chris.

[the penguin of doom]

Look at the signal bridge in the middle distance. This one spanned five roads and four sidings so even at the minimum spacing (nine x 5' 0" plus 8 x 6' 0" plus at least four feet at each end) this thing spanned over a hundred feet. There was a similar signal bridge at Holgate, York, with a similar span.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Mike.

 

This one, (the one in the middle distance), is the one I mentioned in my previous post.

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[mikemeg]

Hi Mike,

 

The photo is indeed the Washbeck signal bridge. I would say (from the theatre indicator) that this photo post dates the closure of the loco sheds on 20 May 1963. The brackets from the original indicator board can be seen on the right-most wooden doll as two horizontal black lines.

 

The bridge in the middle distance is the Gasworks gantry. This bridge was supported by a lattice 'A' frame at each end - a true monster. Do you need detail on the 'A' frame?

 

Cheers,

Chris.

 

Chris,

 

Regarding the 'A' frame supports, I do have an article by O.S. Nock from a 1941 issue of The Engineer, where he has shown detailed plans of these A frame legs.

 

Thanks for the offer.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[dolland]

I love this thread.

 

However, following my link to the planning application to remove the gantry at Falsgrave we have a further dose of progress, you may not know about this.

 

http://www.scarborou...rail.6439648.jp

 

Can we start a collection now. I wonder whether the planners would let me convert it into a house?

[mikemeg]

 

However, following my link to the planning application to remove the gantry at Falsgrave we have a further dose of progress, you may not know about this.

 

http://www.scarborou...rail.6439648.jp

 

Can we start a collection now. I wonder whether the planners would let me convert it into a house?

 

When is the decision likely to be made as to the future location of the signal bridge? Clearly it cannot be moved until it is rendered obsolete by the new signalling arrangements but that isn't far off now.

 

Interesting that Network Rail have stated that they intend to improve the access for re-fuelling visiting steam locomotives. That is surely a very positive recognition, by Network Rail, of the importance of the steam specials which run into Scarborough. I wonder if that provision will extend to retaining or relaying any of the sidings for the stabling of coaching stock?

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

So while I make the model of the next signal bridge at Hessle Haven - with slotted posts and lower quadrants, then by way of a change from that I am continuing to produce the drawings for the various signals at Scarborough - some change eh?

 

This one stood by the old gasworks and was adjacent to the wall of the straight shed in the mpd. After this shed was demolished, part of the wall was left standing, to support one end of this bridge.

 

Why were there so many of these bridges at Scarborough? Largely because the trackwork was squeezed into quite a narrow space which prevented pairs of tracks from being separated by the later standard spacing of 10'. Thus signal installations had to span the tracks, necessitating signal bridges.

 

This will be the first of the Scarborough signals to be built once the current bridge is finished and will use the same jig for the lattice assembly as the current bridge. One departure, already apparent, is that the decking on this bridge was 5' 0" wide, which is wider than the MSE etch (3' 6") for these wider decks. So this deck will have to be scratch built, though it doesn't need the stanchion castings (1/32" tube).

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

Earlier in this thread I mentioned that I do enjoy experimenting with ways of doing things. Here's another. The MSE etching for the NER lever casting base plate is a very nice piece of etching but, on the prototype there were protruding lugs at each of the two corners furthest from the bearing on this baseplate to govern the extent of movement of the balance lever.

 

On the upper quadrants which I have made, I used arm stops for each arm which would prevent the arm from going below the horizontal, though there was no limitation on the degree of upward travel. On these lower quadrants to do the same thing would actually involve adding something over the slot in the posts which would be very visible.

 

This doll and its slightly shorter neighbour, will both have three levers on them and here the NER provided extended lugs on the baseplate casting.

 

So how to replicate the prototype. I filed a notch into each corner of the widest part of the baseplate, roughly 1 mm by .5 mm. I then bent up a square 'U' out of .6 mm x .015" brass strip and soldered this to the back of the baseplate. This was then filed down to around .005" at the back of the baseplate which will be the extent of protrusion of this baseplate from the post.

 

The spindle for the balance levers - .5 mm wire - is then soldered into the baseplate while the lugs are held firm to prevent the whole thing falling apart. The lugs will be slightly tapered to reproduce the taper on the prototype.

 

So, by this means, and by the use of the tube on the signal arm, which gives about 2 mm latitude on cutting the length of the operating rod, I can fine tune the movement of the arm to more or less the distance required.

 

As ever a photo says it far more effectively, though this thing is less than 4 mm x 4 mm so not easy to photograph.

 

And the .3mm operating rod will pass those lugs - just!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

The next stage is to fit the distant lever to the lever slotted with the next home signal. I have fitted slot bars before, on dolls with both home and distant but decided against it here. So the two levers will move as one (yes I know a departure from the prototype but there's only so much time to make these things) by virtue of being fixed together.

 

The operating rod to the distant was fitted before these two levers were soldered together; much easier than trying to fiddle a looped wire into the thing when it is joined. This rod can now be profiled while the assembly is free standing and then cut to final size once the whole assembly is fixed to the doll. This also allows the loop to be formed to look like one of the clasps which were present on the prototype. the down wire to the pulley wheel, which will be .2 mm wire can be juggled into this assembly and the length of that still needs to be established.

 

So just the home lever to do and fit then this whole assembly can be trimmed up and fixed to the doll, though that won't be done until the decking is fitted to the bridge because clearances between the ends of the balance levers and the handrails will be quite tight.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

The next stage is to add the slight bend in the operating rod - and this was done on the prototypes - to bring the operating rod as close to the post as possible. This needs to be a fairly shallow kink to prevent the wire from bending at this point during operation.

 

The operating rod has still not been cut to its final length and won't be until the lever assembly is located and fixed to the doll.

 

Now it's possible to see how the tiny piece of pivotted tubing, which is attached to the arm, will work.

 

There's a little bit of something which needs to come off that distant arm; ain't that the disadvantage (or advantage) of these close up shots?

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

Finally the home balance lever is made and the operating rod attached in the same way. The loops in the .3 mm wire linking these rods to the levers are less than 2mm long and are nipped to almost the same separation as the thickness of the lever, just opening them out very slightly so that they will pivot around the lever.

 

Both rods should lie almost flush with the post and, as the tube on the distant is offset by around .3 mm then the rod for the home arm should pass it without any interference.

 

So once I purchase some cigarette papers to act as a soldering buffer, I can solder a washer to the spindle trapping both levers reasonably tight on the bearing spindle.

 

This assembly can then be laid aside until the decking is added, after which it can be fitted to the doll.

 

So that's the end of another little experiment and one which seems to have worked reasonably well.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

On all of the signal models which I have made, to date, I have tried to arrange the linkage mechanism so that the arms will return to danger under their own weight. This by using very fine gauge wire (with almost no weight) for the linkages and making the spindle bearings very free running. So far this has proved reasonably successful.

 

On these lower quadrants, the effect of gravity - the weight of the arm - will pull them off; that and the pulling forces of the linkage. But on some of these Scarborough bridges, there were operating wires, across the decking, of sixty, seventy, even eighty or more feet. As well as this, many of the arms which were so driven, were the smaller shunting and calling on lower quadrants, which were much smaller and lighter than the main line arms. So, there will be almost no effect from the weight of the arm; they have virtually no weight.

 

So if I use these very fine gauge wires for the linkages, where there is very little rigidity in the wire and hence no pushing capability, then how to return these arms to danger linked over these very long distances?

 

So, here I am intending to try and use very small springs to return the arms to the danger position - the springs as used with Alan Gibson sprung loco axleboxes might work. Quite how this can/will be done is still to be worked out, though most of the dolls where this will be necessary are relatively short, so the operating rods from the balance levers to the arms are also quite short and shouldn't flex too much.

 

Anyway that is going to be the subject of a few further experiments. If anyone does know of any other sources of these very fine springs, then I would be grateful for the information.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

Having had a couple of weeks off from building signals, it's now time to resume work on the Hessle Haven signal bridge.

 

The decking is the standard MSE extended decking etch but, even then, is not long enough (it is 180 mm) for these bridges, so the decking must be made in two sections. Once again, the stanchion castings are drilled and fitted at the edge of each fifth successive plank of the decking. As luck would have it, this worked out exactly on this bridge. The castings are 1/32" tube, soldered into the decking and then reduced in height to .060", by the simple expedient of placing a piece of .060" plasticard, with a hole drilled in it slightly over 1/32", over the tube. This is then filed down to the thickness of the plasticard. The tiny stanchion castings are also slightly reduced in diameter, by eye, to something around .65 - .7 mm which does improve the scale appearance of them.

 

The forty four holes and stanchion castings on this decking took around five hours to do and were done in a single session. Breaking off from jobs like this can be fatal in that it becomes very difficult to motivate oneself to then complete them; it's too easy to move onto something else.

 

As I get older, somehow the discipline of following a very strict sequence of construction seems to become much easier to adhere to! Meanwhile, by way of a change, I am continuing to draw the various signal bridges and gantries at Scarborough.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

The decking is now done, with both sides edged with 1.0 mm angle and then checked for straightness. Everything seems straight so the decking has been soldered to the top of the lattice girders, taking care that the decking remains horizontal during this process and that nothing moves on the lattice girders. Progress has been a little spasmodic, on this one, due to the distraction of building the D20's, though they are both making slow progress as well. All of this rain is forcing more and more attention to be paid to the garden, which is a good, seasonal excuse.

 

The first doll is just sat in the lattice, still needing its operating rods finally fixing and then the various lamp and spectacle assemblies adding. I still have to add the diagonal bracing across the bottom of the two lattice girders, which is the next job.

 

At least having got to here, the thing is beginning to look like an NER signal bridge. Looking at the arrangements on some of those Scarborough signals, with six to a dozen dolls and arms everywhere, this one seems a poor relation, with its two dolls. Still, this should act as a useful 'practice run' on these slotted posts and lower quadrants for the much larger and more complex Scarborough bridges.

 

I wonder if I dare add the NER 'umbrella and spike' finial at this stage; chances are it will either get knocked or bent, so perhaps wait until the doll is completed!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[the penguin of doom]

 

At least having got to here, the thing is beginning to look like an NER signal bridge. Looking at the arrangements on some of those Scarborough signals, with six to a dozen dolls and arms everywhere, this one seems a poor relation, with its two dolls. Still, this should act as a useful 'practice run' on these slotted posts and lower quadrants for the much larger and more complex Scarborough bridges.

 

I wonder if I dare add the NER 'umbrella and spike' finial at this stage; chances are it will either get knocked or bent, so perhaps wait until the doll is completed!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Definately looking very NER Mike! - go on, add the finial...... As I recall, they're very elegant. I put some on a scratchbuilt signal box years ago. I'm going to put some on my model of Bridlingtons Quay Crossing, (My first box and sadly, no longer with us) and I think this will be the finishing touch, so to speak.....

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[mikemeg]

The diagonal bracing, across the bottom of the two lattice girders is now done. This is one of those examples of following prototype practice, for this bracing is barely visible to anyone other than the 4mm loco drivers who pass under this thing and they'll probably not notice anyway. But following my modelling ethic - if it is on the prototype, then it is on the model, if I can do it.

 

So now the whole of the lattice structure can be primed, before any of the dolls are fitted, ready for the final painting.

 

Now on to finishing the dolls and building some more of those operating pulleys.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[micknich2003]

Definately looking very NER Mike! - go on, add the finial...... As I recall, they're very elegant. I put some on a scratchbuilt signal box years ago. I'm going to put some on my model of Bridlingtons Quay Crossing, (My first box and sadly, no longer with us) and I think this will be the finishing touch, so to speak.....

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

Signal box finials and signal finials are two completely different animals. Mick.

[mikemeg]

Definately looking very NER Mike! - go on, add the finial...... As I recall, they're very elegant.

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

 

There are some things, tiny details, which just breath atmosphere into a model. I guess on these things it was those incredibly elegant finials. So, Sean, here's the picture with this doll now well on, though still not yet fixed into the lattice. Those arms are at the fullest extent of their travel, limited by the stops on the balance lever casting.

 

I know I've said this before (oh, many times before) but these things were just incredibly elegant objects; they were essays in the aesthetics of functional design and, for me, it is a great joy to be able to re-create them in miniature.

 

That lattice has squared up nicely, with the diagonal bracing under the girders. This photo probably also illustrates the advantages of using jigs to build these things, especially in ensuring that everything is absolutely straight and square.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

Here's another of those Scarborough signal bridges. This one stood directly opposite one end of Washbeck signal box until around 1968/69. Absolutely typical North Eastern, with every possible movement signalled and with landings all over the place.

 

Photographs of this thing suggest that by 1950, one arm had been removed and one of the NER finials had been replaced with an LNER post cap. Also, the signal lamps were a mixture of NER and LNER standard types.

 

Now wouldn't this be a challenge to model, all 66 feet span of it?

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

I remember when MickLNER made some of these NER lower quadrant signals from the MSE kits he mentioned, on here, that there is not a lot of room behind the lamp bracket for the operating rods. The standard MSE NER lamp bracket etch includes the front bearing plate for the arm spindle, which is the reason for the restricted clearance. As I used 1/32" tube for the final fixing of the operating rods to the arms, then I needed more clearance than the MSE arrangement provides.

 

So the solution was to separate the spindle bearing from the lamp bracket, so that additional clearnace could be gained. Hopefully the photo shows how this was done and how the two resulting pieces are now arranged.

 

Mick (LNER), many thanks for the information; you saved me a fair bit of time and effort in identifying and solving this.

 

The other photograph shows the arm positions at the other extreme of travel of the balance levers, constrained by the stops on the balance lever casting. These things were rarely truly horizontal, especially in their later years as linkages stretched and wore, so I think I'm happy with that.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[micklner]

Looking good Mike

 

Glad you solved the problem. MSE are looking at the problem, Andrew kindly sent me some alternative etches which I havent tried yet.

 

Mick

[Horsetan]

This is terrific stuff!