Class 37s at 100mph

[18B]

Hi, 

 

would anyone happen to know the numbers of the class 37s regeared for 100mph running on the WR in 1966 please? 

Edited August 24, 2021 by 18B
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[russ p]

40 minutes ago, 18B said:

Hi, 

 

would anyone happen to know the numbers of the class 37s regeared for 100mph running on the WR in 1966 please? 

 

I'm not sure they actually regeared.  All 37s are capable of doing a ton but its not that good for them 

[Mike_Walker]

No, they weren't, just a small group that got enhanced maintenance.  I have details of the locos involved and will look them up in the morning.

[hexagon789]

1 hour ago, 18B said:

Hi, 

 

would anyone happen to know the numbers of the class 37s regeared for 100mph running on the WR in 1966 please? 

Some sources say they were re-geared, others not. As it is preserved Deltics have received ex-37 bogies and been passed for 100mph so I suspect no actual re-gearing was involved and simply as Mr Walker says above it was just enhanced maintenance.

 

The pool was D6875-6892 from memory.

 

I have an idea there was a thread on this site with some details but a search didn't locate anything so it may have been on the old version of the site (2007-2009) which is sadly no longer accessible.

[Mike_Walker]

As promised here is the text of an article I prepared for the March 2020 issue of The Marlow Donkey, the magazine of the Marlow & District Railway Society:

 

As GWR launch their new high speed services between Paddington and Bristol it’s worth remembering a short-lived earlier attempt by BR’s Western Region to speed up services on the Paddington to Bristol and South Wales routes.  The genesis of this idea came whilst the legendary Gerry Fiennes was General Manager of the Western Region (1963-65) and some test runs were made in 1964.  However it was to be from the 18th April 1966 that a speeded up timetable was launched allowing certain trains to run at 100mph when the general maximum limit on the WR was 90mph.

 

Two train sets were provided, one of them formed from the experimental XP64 set the other a set of freshly overhauled Mk1s riding on ‘Commonwealth’ bogies. Both carried the then newly introduced blue and grey livery.  The former worked the 08:20 Swansea-Paddington, the 12:45 Paddington-Bristol Temple Meads and 16:15 Bristol TM to Paddington whilst the other covered the 08:45 Paddington-Bristol TM, the 11:15 Bristol TM to Paddington, 14:45 Paddington-Bristol TM and 18:15 Bristol TM-Paddington.

 

Motive power was a complete break for the WR which allocated eighteen of its then recently acquired English Electric Type 3s, D6875-D6892 to the trains operating in pairs. Normally, these were limited to 90mph but this group received additional maintenance and were specially authorised to operate up to 100mph.

 

The 100mph running was allowed on two sections in each direction.  On the Down Main it was permitted from MP 11 (Hayes & Harlington) to MP 29½ (Ruscombe) and from MP 43 (Lower Basildon) to MP 63¾ (Challow). In the Up direction it applied from MP 63¾ to MP 43¾ and from MP 43¼ to MP 10. 

 

The experiment didn’t last long. Timings were tight, for example Paddington to Chippenham in 72 minutes but time was often lost and by January 1967 single Brush Type 4s were mostly in charge.

[Fat Controller]

After the trials had finished, the locos returned to normal duties; 6879-6885 spent most of the late sixties and early 1970s on local trips around Llandeilo Jct, and rarely exceeding 30 mph.

[37114]

Most Class 37/0s were capable of 100, the 37/6s had bogies from Class 37/0s as they were planned to run at 100mph on the night star project.  I also recall being on a railtour in the mid 90s behind 2 Class 37/0s and we were travelling at a speed approaching 100.

[russ p]

1 hour ago, 37114 said:

Most Class 37/0s were capable of 100, the 37/6s had bogies from Class 37/0s as they were planned to run at 100mph on the night star project.  I also recall being on a railtour in the mid 90s behind 2 Class 37/0s and we were travelling at a speed approaching 100.

 

Even the regeared 4s and 5s will do a ton , not saying how I know but a very long time ago,!

Most BR mainline diesels will do a ton if its not too heavy a load or light engine but traction motors aren't that keen on some

[Michael Hodgson]

I thought you were supposed to keep the speed down when running light engine ?

[Ian Hargrave]

13 hours ago, Mike_Walker said:

As promised here is the text of an article I prepared for the March 2020 issue of The Marlow Donkey, the magazine of the Marlow & District Railway Society:

 

As GWR launch their new high speed services between Paddington and Bristol it’s worth remembering a short-lived earlier attempt by BR’s Western Region to speed up services on the Paddington to Bristol and South Wales routes.  The genesis of this idea came whilst the legendary Gerry Fiennes was General Manager of the Western Region (1963-65) and some test runs were made in 1964.  However it was to be from the 18th April 1966 that a speeded up timetable was launched allowing certain trains to run at 100mph when the general maximum limit on the WR was 90mph.

 

Two train sets were provided, one of them formed from the experimental XP64 set the other a set of freshly overhauled Mk1s riding on ‘Commonwealth’ bogies. Both carried the then newly introduced blue and grey livery.  The former worked the 08:20 Swansea-Paddington, the 12:45 Paddington-Bristol Temple Meads and 16:15 Bristol TM to Paddington whilst the other covered the 08:45 Paddington-Bristol TM, the 11:15 Bristol TM to Paddington, 14:45 Paddington-Bristol TM and 18:15 Bristol TM-Paddington.

 

Motive power was a complete break for the WR which allocated eighteen of its then recently acquired English Electric Type 3s, D6875-D6892 to the trains operating in pairs. Normally, these were limited to 90mph but this group received additional maintenance and were specially authorised to operate up to 100mph.

 

The 100mph running was allowed on two sections in each direction.  On the Down Main it was permitted from MP 11 (Hayes & Harlington) to MP 29½ (Ruscombe) and from MP 43 (Lower Basildon) to MP 63¾ (Challow). In the Up direction it applied from MP 63¾ to MP 43¾ and from MP 43¼ to MP 10. 

 

The experiment didn’t last long. Timings were tight, for example Paddington to Chippenham in 72 minutes but time was often lost and by January 1967 single Brush Type 4s were mostly in charge.

Thanks for the memory. I had a trip between Bridgend and Cardiff one day in 1966 on the XP64 set behind a pair of EE Type 3. Quite an adventure ( short lived ) at the time.

[The Johnster]

Class 37s were rated for 100mph, the only diesels on the WR capable of this in 1966 (the hydraulics were rated for 90mph, and the Class 47s for 95mph).  But the overall top line speed on the region in 1966 was 90mph, and this remained the case until the HST timetables were introduced in 1975.  Top speed is not just a matter of what the locomotive can do, it is also a matter of signal sighting, braking distance, and safety overlaps.  The 1966 high speed trials used the 37s, double headed for power, because they were the only locomotives on the WR that were fast enough.  The Deltics were I believe rated for 105mph, and the class 50s for 110.  ISTR 31s were good for 100mph as well; 44/5/6 were rated for 90mph.  As has been said, most diesel locos are capable of around 100mph, and the WR's 90mph overall line speed was not always as strictly observed as it could have been; I can testify to 98 on the speedometer of a Hymek on the Cardiff-Peterborough parcels, 4E11, to Gloucester.  The ride was very good.

 

I timed my fastest ever locomotive hauled run ever in the 80s with a 50 on an up Cardiff-Paddington, a Sunday morning Bristol Bath Road diagram that involved working the train over from Weston Super Mare, the Cardiff-Paddington leg, and a return from Paddington to Bristol; 50s were not common in South Wales in those days.  It would be an annual day out for the club I was with at the time for the Easter Show at Central Hall or Wembley, and we chose this train because it was booked to run via Gloucester, and with a high possibility of diversions or speed restrictions on a Sunday, frequently had to be given the beans coming up from Swindon.  We confirmed each others' timings between Cholsey & Moulsford and Pangbourne at 114mph for the whole stretch, quite exciting in a mk1 CK howling like a banshee...

[russ p]

8 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I thought you were supposed to keep the speed down when running light engine ?

 

You are, a lot of the old boys who were drivers when I started didn't seem to agree with that!

68s and 88s are allowed to do line speed up to 100mph light engine 

[Pandora]

The E5001 electric locos, the tales I have heard  from retired drivers, light engine at the end of a turn "job and knock"  120 mph on the speedometer.

[101]

It was just something that was done years ago, though you did have to give yourself a lot of room to stop!

Class 47s light loco would regularly be taken off the clock, and I've personally had 37s up around the 100 mark several times, though I remember well a 37 reading around 115 on the speedo, but I wasn't driving on that occasion and the reason I remember it so well because the whole loco was shaking and I was relieved when we began slowing down!

Edited August 26, 2021 by 101

[griffgriff]

…. She can’t take anymore captain

[Bucoops]

48 minutes ago, 101 said:

It was just something that was done years ago, though you did have to give yourself a lot of room to stop!

Class 47s light loco would regularly be taken off the clock, and I've personally had 37s up around the 100 mark several times, though I remember well a 37 reading around 115 on the speedo, but I wasn't driving on that occasion and the reason I remember it so well because the whole loco was shaking and I was relieved when we began slowing down!

 

Not the same I know but I was rather concerned about the structural integrity of the morris minor that I got the speedo round to zero again

[DY444]

7 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Class 37s were rated for 100mph, the only diesels on the WR capable of this in 1966 (the hydraulics were rated for 90mph, and the Class 47s for 95mph).  But the overall top line speed on the region in 1966 was 90mph, and this remained the case until the HST timetables were introduced in 1975. 

 

Couple of points:

The HST timetables were 1976 surely?

My recollection may be wrong but I was sure that some sections of the WR main line between Paddington and Bristol were cleared for 100mph before 1975 to exploit the ability of the Class 50s to run at that speed. 

[The Stationmaster]

17 minutes ago, DY444 said:

 

Couple of points:

The HST timetables were 1976 surely?

My recollection may be wrong but I was sure that some sections of the WR main line between Paddington and Bristol were cleared for 100mph before 1975 to exploit the ability of the Class 50s to run at that speed. 

Definitely so.  In fact both the 1968 and 1975 Sectional Appendix show exactly the same stretches authorised for 100mph running although the 'Note' changed and the 1975 Note refers specifically to trains authorised to run at 100mph and marked accordingly in the WTT.  In both cases MP 11 to 63m60ch on the Down Main and 63m60ch to MP10 on the Up Main - and don't mention an underbraked signal in that stretch (there was only one, on the Down Main at a place which can remain nameless). and there were a number of locations where repeating double yellows existed.