Bachmann & Hornby Southern 4-wheel PLVs - different uses?

[BillB]

Hi, I note that the Bachmann Southern 4-wheel PLV (Bachmann 39-525 series) has lots of big ventilators on the sides and ends that the Hornby Southern 4-wheel Passenger Brake Van "C" does not (Hornby R4301 series). Does this mean they were used differently / had different design purposes? I wondered if the prototypes for the Bachmann van were designed to be able to be used for milk traffic? Other perishables?? Or some other reason???

 

And were either / both types used on the Isle of Wight? Or were there other territorial differences??

 

Either way they are both great looking vans, full of character, and sufficiently different to make an interesting contrast.

 

Grateful for any info.

 

Best Regards,

Bill.

[hmrspaul]

The SR C, BR B is, as you describe a brake van. Yes a general parcels vehicle but also able to form the brake vehicle in a train which was necessary, and also somewhere for a guard and a stove. 

 

The PMV and CCT were general purpose and the SR in particular had a lot of express delivery fresh produce to carry - fruit, veg and flowers - including quite an important trade from the Channel Islands but also from the main glasshouse areas around Chichester and along the coast. Ventilation was useful for all such traffic. 

 

Paul

[Wickham Green too]

Yes a handful of PLVs were transferred to the Isle of Widget in early B.R. days.

[Wickham Green too]

Another point to make is that the first Vans 'C' the Southern built were the three for the 'Night Ferry' : these were virtually a PLV - complete with vents - with a guard's compartment inserted in the middle ( on a lengthened frame ) ........ could it be that the guards found these rather draughty and insisted on a redesign ? ( The subsequent guard's brakes did, of course, have droplights in the doors so the luggage compartment could be ventilated if required.)

[The Johnster]

A CCT (Covered Carriage Truck) has end doors, while a PMV (Parcels & Milk Van) does not.  AFAIK there is no RTR Southern CCT, but I think Parkside do a kit; Bachmann do an RTR PMV as do Dapol and Wrenn.  The common Southern bogie vehicles are Van B, non-gangwayed with a guard's compartment located centrally, and PLV (Passenger Luggage Van), gangwayed but with no guard's compartment, both produced RTR by Hornby.  The Van C, also Hornby RTR is a 4 wheeled brake van, and the Van B is a bogie vehicle; neither are gangwayed.

 

Van Bs had an enclosed compartment for the guard, so draughts were not a major issue for him, well, not more than they were in general... 

 

As well as the fast goods traffic already mentioned, there was also a need for bogie PLVs, effectively GUVs but without the end doors, for the ferry boat trains, and especially for the 'not required on voyage' luggage of Southampton ocean liner trains. unloaded from the vans directly into the ships' holds, to be unloaded at Cape Town, Sydney, New York, or wherever.  The trains ran directly into the Transhipment/Customs shed at Southampton Docks.

[Steamport Southport]

Psst. The M stood for Miscellaneous .

 

For models look here. Written before the current RTR models though.

 

https://sremg.org.uk/model/4mm_lugg_vans_01.html

 

Also for prototype information.

 

https://sremg.org.uk/photoind.shtml#vans

 

If you really want to delve into the delights of SR NPCCS vans then this is very good. Should be about a tenner though. Shop around as they do turn up. 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Southern-Railway-Passenger-Vans-X/dp/0853614288

 

 

Jason

[Steamport Southport]

Just had a little look and Bachmann did do a CCT.

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/Bachmann-39-529-ex-southern-cct-covered-carriage-truck-br-departmental-green

 

 

Jason

[Wickham Green too]

..... and the Dapol, ex Wrenn, nee Hornby Dublo one is also a CovCar ( CCT ).

 

Sorry to correct you, again, Johnster - but the Southern knew the gangwayed vans as 'GBL' .... or Corr PMV in B.R. days.

[hmrspaul]

21 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Just had a little look and Bachmann did do a CCT.

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/Bachmann-39-529-ex-southern-cct-covered-carriage-truck-br-departmental-green

 

 

Jason

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/srcctdepartmental/eb075975

 

Paul

[phil-b259]

21 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Just had a little look and Bachmann did do a CCT.

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/Bachmann-39-529-ex-southern-cct-covered-carriage-truck-br-departmental-green

 

 

Jason

 

Indeed they did - introduced at the same time as their PMVs in BR crimson and Southern Olive (with which the CCT shares an underframe).

 

Its simply a case that Bachmann have yet to release a further batch of Southern vans - and as such the CCT is only available in BR Green at present even though such vans did indeed carry SR Olive etc.

 

 

[Wickham Green too]

Under a coating of traditional N.P.C.S. crud you'd have great difficulty differentiating departmental olive from Maunsell green !

[The Johnster]

On 27/08/2021 at 08:42, Wickham Green too said:

..... and the Dapol, ex Wrenn, nee Hornby Dublo one is also a CovCar ( CCT ).

 

Sorry to correct you, again, Johnster - but the Southern knew the gangwayed vans as 'GBL' .... or Corr PMV in B.R. days.

No worries; maybe some of it will sink in one day, we live in hope.  Actually, I live in Roath, a part of Cardiff where hope has long been abandoned...