Can anyone identify this DC controller?

[Michael Hodgson]

13 minutes ago, AndyID said:

 

Electric kettles work fine on 120 anyway but If that's a major concern you can always have a 240 outlet installed. And line to earth will still only be 120 volts . You have to work quite hard to get a 240 volt jolt here.

Our kettles are typically 2200-2800W.  I understand the American 120v ones are only about 1500W.  So it will take quite a lot longer to boil enough to fill a teapot.  No wonder they only drink coffee.

[spikey]

On 28/08/2021 at 16:09, JohnDMJ said:

If anyone calls, in my professional capacity, to discuss anything Hammant & Morgan, I will give them concise answers and mention asbestosis!

 

Why? 

 

How many H&M controllers do you think a person would have to breathe the crushed innards of to risk asbestosis?

[Derekl]

8 minutes ago, spikey said:

 

Why? 

 

How many H&M controllers do you think a person would have to breathe the crushed innards of to risk asbestosis?

 

You are very unlikely to contract asbestosis as a result of low levels of exposure to asbestos, but mesothelioma can result from fairly low levels of exposure, particularly if breathing it in directly. There is usually a 30 year or so lead time for development of symptoms, so if you are over 60 it probably won't matter much, although lead times of 15 years are not unknown. Best avoided.

[melmerby]

Nobody's mentioned checking fuse ratings

 

That iss one of the first things of the inspection part of testing electrical equipment.

The fuse must be capable of protecting the cable in the event of fault conditions

[Dagworth]

3 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Nobody's mentioned checking fuse ratings

 

That iss one of the first things of the inspection part of testing electrical equipment.

The fuse must be capable of protecting the cable in the event of fault conditions

 

19 hours ago, Dagworth said:

As long as the earth is good, the fuse is correct, the cord in good condition and the device passes an insulation test there's no reason to condemn it.

 

[AndyID]

33 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Our kettles are typically 2200-2800W.  I understand the American 120v ones are only about 1500W.  So it will take quite a lot longer to boil enough to fill a teapot.  No wonder they only drink coffee.

 

Yes, they do take a bit longer but the minor inconvenience (if it even is an inconvenience) is IMHO worth it for the 75% risk reduction.

 

I really don't know if safety was even a consideration when the US adopted 120. I suspect it was driven more by other factors but having been exposed to both systems I think I prefer this one. Of course it's by no means perfect.

[kevinlms]

15 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Nobody's mentioned checking fuse ratings

 

That iss one of the first things of the inspection part of testing electrical equipment.

The fuse must be capable of protecting the cable in the event of fault conditions

I didn't mention it, because there is no fuse to check the ratings of, in Australia and indeed most of the world!

 

Some items do have fuses inside the equipment, but never the plugs.

Is that a major issue? Draw your own conclusions from the evidence.

But note it is illegal for unqualified people to work on mains equipment. None of the British idea of 'fit your own plugs'!

 

https://www.erac.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/ERAC_Electrical_fatality_benchmarking_2018-2019.pdf

[kevinlms]

8 minutes ago, AndyID said:

 

Yes, they do take a bit longer but the minor inconvenience (if it even is an inconvenience) is IMHO worth it for the 75% risk reduction.

 

I really don't know if safety was even a consideration when the US adopted 120. I suspect it was driven more by other factors but having been exposed to both systems I think I prefer this one. Of course it's by no means perfect.

My understanding that pioneer installations in the US was of 110 Volts DC. The value has stayed the same, but it's changed to AC.

[John M Upton]

I agree that most electrical items for inspection usually failed before they got anywhere near any tools or testing kit.  My worst (and most comical) was a standard lamp that I found.

 

It had numerous tears in the mains cable exposing the copper cable inside, a mysterious nut and bolt someone had helpfully bodged on to hold part of it together which was chafing another part of the cable, plug held together with badly yellowed old sellotape with the classic exposed inner wires at the base and all sat in an old fire bucket of wet(!) sand as the base had long since broken off.  

 

I condemned it on the spot whilst trying not to laugh. The only serviceable and safe bit of the whole thing was the bulb, and I accidentally dropped that on the floor and broke it...

Edited August 29, 2021 by John M Upton

[AndyID]

10 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

My understanding that pioneer installations in the US was of 110 Volts DC. The value has stayed the same, but it's changed to AC.

 

It's nominally 120/240 now but it could well have been just a follow-on from the original DC systems.

 

Of course the UK finagled the voltage from 240 to 230 without actually doing anything too

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, AndyID said:

 

It's nominally 120/240 now but it could well have been just a follow-on from the original DC systems.

 

Of course the UK finagled the voltage from 240 to 230 without actually doing anything too

Changed the tolerance.

I can't remember the actual figures but it was 240+/- something

Now 230v +/- something bigger so that it covers the previous supply tolerance.

 

[AMJ]

I'd always have an external transformer similar to those for laptops these days giving low voltage to the controller.

 

Many years ago whilst working at a boarding school one of the lads brought his desktop machine for us to repair after the PSU went pop.  He was from USA and didn't realise that he didn't have a switching PSU.  Easy replacement PSU ensured that OK in UK and USA.

 

[AndyID]

40 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Changed the tolerance.

I can't remember the actual figures but it was 240+/- something

Now 230v +/- something bigger so that it covers the previous supply tolerance.

 

 

Yes the supplies in the UK and Europe never actually changed. The difference is that equipment is required to operate on 230V plus or minus 10% which most of it likely already did.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, AndyID said:

 

Yes the supplies in the UK and Europe never actually changed. The difference is that equipment is required to operate on 230V plus or minus 10% which most of it likely already did.

In that case it was probably nominally 240v +/- 5% prior to the change

[kevinlms]

4 hours ago, AMJ said:

I'd always have an external transformer similar to those for laptops these days giving low voltage to the controller.

 

Many years ago whilst working at a boarding school one of the lads brought his desktop machine for us to repair after the PSU went pop.  He was from USA and didn't realise that he didn't have a switching PSU.  Easy replacement PSU ensured that OK in UK and USA.

 

A friend of mine son, blow up his PC a few years ago.

He was looking at it and noticed a switch marked 110 V or 240 V and wondered what it did. So he flicked it and BANG. Now he knows!

[jpendle]

13 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

A friend of mine son, blow up his PC a few years ago.

He was looking at it and noticed a switch marked 110 V or 240 V and wondered what it did. So he flicked it and BANG. Now he knows!

My son did that to his PC.

I didn't realise that we were friends 

 

John P

 

[AndyID]

11 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

A friend of mine son, blow up his PC a few years ago.

He was looking at it and noticed a switch marked 110 V or 240 V and wondered what it did. So he flicked it and BANG. Now he knows!

 

We sent a system to the US from the UK. It included a Zilog computer with Shugart 8 inch floppies. IIRC we got the voltage settings right but we forgot about the frequency. The floppy drives had synchronous motors  (or maybe it was the other way round).

[AndyID]

2 hours ago, melmerby said:

In that case it was probably nominally 240v +/- 5% prior to the change

 

I suppose the UK could now revert to the original tolerances but it would just be a big waste of time 

[AndyID]

7 hours ago, kevinlms said:

My understanding that pioneer installations in the US was of 110 Volts DC. The value has stayed the same, but it's changed to AC.

 

So really getting into off-topic drift it's not inconceivable that we'll revert to DC power transmission, at least for small areas. The reason is power-factor. With pure DC it's impossible to have a phase difference between the voltage and the current.

[SamThomas]

15 hours ago, melmerby said:

Nobody's mentioned checking fuse ratings

 

Fuse rating is part of the visual test (as is checking 13a plugs for having shielded pins).

[Crosland]

Now nominally 230V but, just to confuse things, the tolerances in the EU and UK are different, and asymmetrical.

 

The +/-10% is the spec for equipment to work on the original (and unchanged!) 220 and 240V supplies https://www.leadsdirect.co.uk/knowledge-base/what-is-the-difference-between-uk-voltage-and-european-voltage/

[Penlan]

Some 15 years ago at an exhibition, exhibitors had to have their circuit breakers tested.
I always carry a 240v outlet tester with me to exhibitions, to test supply (e.g. is it on?).
The inset floor supply sockets allocated to my layout and a couple of others at the (very large) premises, was wired wrongly. 
They weren't happy that I pointed this out to them.

[kevinlms]

11 minutes ago, Penlan said:

Some 15 years ago at an exhibition, exhibitors had to have their circuit breakers tested.
I always carry a 240v outlet tester with me to exhibitions, to test supply (e.g. is it on?).
The inset floor supply sockets allocated to my layout and a couple of others at the (very large) premises, was wired wrongly. 
They weren't happy that I pointed this out to them.

They never are when you point out their mistakes, when they take others to task. It is a simple and cheap piece of test equipment.

 

 

On a similar matter, I was testing and tagging for my club's exhibition one evening. Last minute I know!

 

Anyway there was a bit of a discussion and the organiser was complaining to an exhibitor. Apparently when this exhibitor plugged something in and turned on, it tripped the circuit breaker for the entire hall. So obviously it was their equipment causing it, says the organiser.

 

So I went to investigate and there was nothing wrong with their equipment, it tested fine. OK so what was wrong? Their equipment was plugged into an extension lead, which just so happened to belong to the organiser. On checking that, it turned out that the active and neutral were reversed!

 

He denied anything was wrong with it, because he used it every day for work! I apologised to this other group and loaned them another extension lead and so stopped them from going home, before the exhibition even started! It all worked fine.

 

Later, when he went home, I repaired his extension lead and put a tag on it!

 

[Brian]

Active??  Do you mean Live?

Put a green Passed tag on the extension after repairing it... Technically it should have a Red Failed tag and the plug cut off.  But if the owner agreed to you repairing or replacing the extension cable then that is fine, so long as the repair passes all tests afterwards.

 

Replacing an incorrectly rated fuse in the plug should I believe really be FOC by the PAT Tester, as a fuse costs around 10p and its cost is more than covered by the testing charge, assuming a charge is being leveed? Even if its a free testing, the cost should be bourn my the tester IMO.     Also IMO and as a qualified PAT tester of some at least 13  plus years, replacing an incorrectly rated fuse is not a fail, its a comment to the equipment owner!

At times I do wonder how some PAT testers make a living, especially if they fail everything! But perhaps that is how they make money!   

 

Edit to correct typo.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Brian

[NinOz]

Well it is certainly risky to try and sell.  If only for possibilities of liability.  Agree that decommissioning would be the best option.

In UK is it ok to solder mains conductor as in this unit?  I was told by electrical professions in Oz to only mechanically attach, crimp and to cover all joints with insulation.  The main reason given was melting of unsecured solder joints with fault currents and unrestrained conductors flopping about in the case.