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Mystery NPCCS - "Long" Coach with Ducket


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Whilst looking for something else in Russell "Pictorial Record of GW Wagons"   (the thin first one not the Appendix.) I found an interesting Full Brake.

 

It is 50' long or longer.  With top-lights but a ducket just off centre.

 

Page 98 figures 187 and 188.

 

One shot shows perhaps the end of the roof which seems to curve down to the corridor connector.   

 

LNER Gresley full brake or ??

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They are supposed to be  photos of Oxford's Cordon gas tank!    There's a GWR shunting disc in the foreground too.

 

But what's so mysterious about this very restricted view of what does indeed look like a LNER Gresley full brake ?  But it's on an adjacent siding and obscured by the Cordon and a Siphon. 

 

The running number begins 70, which is consistent with it being a full brake, something like this perhaps http://www.railway-models-and-art.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/IMG_5489.jpg

 

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Ah yes, the ‘what’s that’ in the background that’s more interesting than the actual subject of the image.  An LMS container loaded onto an LNER Lowfit for instance, as found elsewhere in the book.

 

What can we see of the vehicle in the background to Figs 187 and 188:

 

a)    It has a deep, curved roof

b)    The roof also curves down at the (nearly) visible end

c)    There’s a single, curving rain strip running the length of the roof

d)    The vehicle has brackets for three roof boards.

e)    There’s a row of top lights along the length of the vehicle, excepting the doors

f)     Above the waistline the vehicle in panelled in a series of vertical rectangular panels

g)    It has a pressed steel ducket adjacent to a single door

h)    Below the waist line, the vehicle has two horizontal panels; a deep waistband and second panel below that

i)      All panelling, including the top lights is square cornered

j)      There’s an individual step board under the one set of fully visible doors

k)    The underframe trussing is of angle iron

l)      The left hand end of the trussing begins to rise up to the main underframe member beneath a set of doors, and

m)  As noted there is a number beginning ’70…’ at the right hand end of the vehicle

 

Turning to my one, easily to hand reference (See Ref):

 

a), b), e), f), h) and i) are certainly all characteristic of Gresley design.  k) suggests a late build version and m) indicates the vehicle has been renumbered under the LNER’s 1940’s scheme.

l) says that this is 61’ 6” vehicle, and not one the similar 52’ 6” vans.  g) and j) eliminate a Dia 43 vehicle, so it would seem that what we see is an LNER 61’ 6” Corridor Full Brake (or BG) to one of diagrams 113 or 245.

 

Better informed people are invited to share their knowledge with us.  In fact, let’s have a shout out to @jwealleans and @Clive Mortimore, both of whom have considerable form with Gresley coaching stock to see if they can shed any light on the matter.

 

Reference

Historic Carriage Drawings Volume 2 LNER and Constituents, Campling N, Pendragon Partnership 1997.

 

Regards

TMc

29/08/2021

 

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Morning,

 

It all sounds as though it's a Gresley, but I don't have the book.  Is it possible to see  the pictures?

 

It if is a Gresley BG, it won't be D113 which had turnbuckle trussing.  It'll be D245 or one of the similar later diagrams.

 

This may help although he concentrates on the earlier diagram.

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I do have the book, and have little to add to watfordtmc's conclusions.

 

It is either one of the handful of vans built to dia 113 that had angle-iron trussing (see Harris, 1998, p174 for an example), a dia 245, or a dia 260.  I don't think there's a way of telling which without the full number.

 

12 hours ago, watfordtmc said:

m) indicates the vehicle has been renumbered under the LNER’s 1940’s scheme.

The final examples of the later diagrams appeared in 1943, and had 70XXX numbers from new.

 

D

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