Travelling by train

[rockershovel]

16 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Around London its settling to a new normal.

 

Some trains are full to the point of being unable to board, others half empty.

its not pre-2019 when everything was jammed to the roof, but its certainly not half empty.

 

i’m finding going into the office is more fun / social than a real business activity.

we have 400 in our office, we reached 40 in for the first time last week.. though that was only because the big boss put his name on the list and people wanted to be seen schmoozing… day before and after were near zero… It makes me laugh people who do that, afterall the booking sheet is open for all to see…inc the CEO who can see no one was in day before or after. 

 

 

My experience is that productivity has plummeted under WFH. There is definitely a minimum level of face to face engagement necessary too work effectively. 

[rockershovel]

Well THAT was an interesting day. #205 bus to Liverpool St, occupancy about 30%, about 50% wearing masks (sometimes around the chin). Overground to White Hart Lane, train packed, many standing, general match-day exuberance. Mask wearing minimal, possibly 5%. Station staff mostly wearing masks around chins. Periodic announcements on tannoy but nil enforcement. Return journey was the usual fiasco of order, counter-order and disorder - took us 90 minutes from ground to Liverpool St and there were STILL people arriving when we had finished our pizza, an hour later. Mask wearing nil, cheerful banter fading into bursts of ironic cheering at every announcement. Train packed to the doors. 2100 KX to Newcastle, occupancy maybe 20% mask wearing maybe 25%

Edited October 18, 2021 by rockershovel

[rockershovel]

A few general comments....

1) why don't First Class seats on new stock, have USB ports for charging from? Most buses and cars now have them. 

2) at a time when serious questions are being raised about the whole financial structure of the railways and any sort of job security or salary-related pension is under constant media attack, First Class travel for off-duty staff out of uniform is bad PR 

3) the travel from the stadium was embarrassingly poor. You might think that London in particular, a place where major events at urban stadia are a weekly occurrence would do better. From various comments in the crowd, it's clear that our experience of taking 90 mins to 2 hours to get away from the ground was nothing out of the ordinary. The comparison with our experiences in Japan in 2019 was obvious and wholly unfavourable. 

 

 

[Liam]

On 13/10/2021 at 17:21, Siberian Snooper said:

Last month I had an all line rail rover ticket and most trains were comfortably full and all commuter time trains were standing only. One train I was going to travel on from Stoke to Derby came in full and was near to full crush load, with football fans when it left. Not many people were wearing masks  except in Scotland where it was still mandatory.

 

 

In July I did an All Line Rover too. It began on the day that face coverings became no longer mandatory in England, but I still kept a few with me and would go by the rule that I would wear one if I couldn’t stay socially distanced from other people. 
 

I started my rover ticket in Scotland, where face coverings were still mandatory, but once I crossed the border in England I went by the rule that I would wear a face mask if I couldn’t space out sufficiently from others. Despite this being mid July, a lot of the trains I travelled on weren’t terribly busy so in the course of the week I’d say that I wore my mask around 20% of the time. 

[KeithMacdonald]

On 27/08/2021 at 19:09, rockershovel said:

My experiences of XC between Plymouth and London during the autumn and winter of 2018-19 might be summarised as "utterly disgraceful". 

 

Was it utterly disgraceful that XC wouldn't go out of their way to make a special XC train into London especially for you?

 

On 27/08/2021 at 20:58, Oldddudders said:

I didn't know XC did Plymouth to London. GWR has in recent years always been the operator I used from Newton Abbot.

 

Same here from Plymouth and Exeter.

[KeithMacdonald]

#1 Son is travelling in & out of London every day. He reports that there's a regular pattern to the level of occupancy on train and tube.

 

Monday : Nearly empty

Tuesday : 1/3rd full

Wednesday : 2/3rds to full

Thursday : 2/3rds to full

Friday : 1/3rd full

 

He reckons most people (mostly Working From Home) have settled into a routine of just one or two days in the office, arranged to give them the longest weekends possible.

 

 

[Oldddudders]

43 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

#1 Son is travelling in & out of London every day. He reports that there's a regular pattern to the level of occupancy on train and tube.

 

Monday : Nearly empty

Tuesday : 1/3rd full

Wednesday : 2/3rds to full

Thursday : 2/3rds to full

Friday : 1/3rd full

 

He reckons most people (mostly Working From Home) have settled into a routine of just one or two days in the office, arranged to give them the longest weekends possible.

 

 

Were I still in work I would regard that as eminently sensible where the job enabled it. My last 18 months in work (2003/4) were part time, and I chose to go in the days when there was a need. This sounds just as intelligent. 

[rockershovel]

10 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Was it utterly disgraceful that XC wouldn't go out of their way to make a special XC train into London especially for you?

 

 

Same here from Plymouth and Exeter.

Try reading my thread and blogs from that period. I made a series of work-related journeys between Plymouth, Bristol, London, Birmingham and Peterborough. XC were easily the worst of the operators I encountered. 

[rockershovel]

10 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

#1 Son is travelling in & out of London every day. He reports that there's a regular pattern to the level of occupancy on train and tube.

 

Monday : Nearly empty

Tuesday : 1/3rd full

Wednesday : 2/3rds to full

Thursday : 2/3rds to full

Friday : 1/3rd full

 

He reckons most people (mostly Working From Home) have settled into a routine of just one or two days in the office, arranged to give them the longest weekends possible.

 

 

... which would be consistent with my experience of WFH and remote working. My now-previous employer already had a general practice of "short Fridays" (common in construction at some times of the year, where work/life balance is a chronic problem). The problem is now that the accompanying practice - of sending in requisitions etc on Friday for action by Head Office staff who didn't work these foreshortened hours - is definitely less effective. It also affects trying to get things done on Monday 

Edited October 18, 2021 by rockershovel

[Wheatley]

On 18/10/2021 at 06:19, rockershovel said:

2) at a time when serious questions are being raised about the whole financial structure of the railways and any sort of job security or salary-related pension is under constant media attack, First Class travel for off-duty staff out of uniform is bad PR 

 

Because it doesn't cost the operator any more to sit them in the empty first class compartment than to leave them in standard class taking up space and contributing to the general lack of social distancing. A vanishingly small number of staff now get actual paid for by their employer first class travel, shoving the others in first to alleviate crowding in standard has long been some conductors' preferred option. 

[rockershovel]

1 hour ago, Wheatley said:

 

Because it doesn't cost the operator any more to sit them in the empty first class compartment than to leave them in standard class taking up space and contributing to the general lack of social distancing. A vanishingly small number of staff now get actual paid for by their employer first class travel, shoving the others in first to alleviate crowding in standard has long been some conductors' preferred option. 

I did say "bad PR" rather than having any actual merit, or otherwise. It needs to be seen in the context of issues such as the press coverage surrounding teaching staff, in particular returning to

work or otherwise, or the present controversy surrounding GP appointments.

 

I've worked as a key worker throughout the whole affair and it has been obvious throughout, that a sizeable section of the population have either given up completely on social distancing, or never took it up at all. 

 

There is a workforce of around 1 million in the position of paying full PAYE but having no meaningful employment rights, including the option of furlough. There are another million plus in the opaque landscape of self-employment and IR35. There is a lot of dissatisfaction and resentment out there. 

 

Meanwhile, the railways appear to be drifting into de-facto re-nationalisation....

 

Do I think it matters that off-duty staff travel first class if there is space? No, not really; but do I see a potential for it to be a "shock horror" in the Daily Beast? Different question.....

 

 

[Oldddudders]

So, what do these dreadful off-duty staff get up to that identifies them for the deplorables they obviously are, and makes their presence in first so unappealing? 

 

I have been entitled to travel first class since 1978, when I reached a certain grade as a Station Manager. My rights to continuing staff travel were enshrined in the 1993 Act, and into retirement (17 years). Those entering the industry since the mid-90s have considerably fewer travel perks, I believe, and if their company offers first class travel off duty I regard that as something of a makeweight. 

 

Pre-Covid, when I would travel more often between London and the West Country, I often saw FGW managers in first class, clearly on duty, using a laptop etc and in most cases actually having an identity badge visible. They were using the company car, which cost FGW nothing to provide and had no harmful environmental effect, unlike many other UK employees who are cheerfully provided with a car for work and leisure purposes, and not known for deferring to private motorists at intersections or the filling station forecourt. 

 

[Mark Saunders]

6 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

So, what do these dreadful off-duty staff get up to that identifies them for the deplorables they obviously are, and makes their presence in first so unappealing? 

 

I have been entitled to travel first class since 1978, when I reached a certain grade as a Station Manager. My rights to continuing staff travel were enshrined in the 1993 Act, and into retirement (17 years). Those entering the industry since the mid-90s have considerably fewer travel perks, I believe, and if their company offers first class travel off duty I regard that as something of a makeweight. 

 

Pre-Covid, when I would travel more often between London and the West Country, I often saw FGW managers in first class, clearly on duty, using a laptop etc and in most cases actually having an identity badge visible. They were using the company car, which cost FGW nothing to provide and had no harmful environmental effect, unlike many other UK employees who are cheerfully provided with a car for work and leisure purposes, and not known for deferring to private motorists at intersections or the filling station forecourt. 

 

The whole of the UK seems to have a bad dose of sour grapes and if someone gets something they don’t then they shouldn’t be allowed it!

 

 

[Grizz]

47 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

I did say "bad PR" rather than having any actual merit, or otherwise. It needs to be seen in the context of issues such as the press coverage surrounding teaching staff, in particular returning to

work or otherwise, or the present controversy surrounding GP appointments.

 

I've worked as a key worker throughout the whole affair and it has been obvious throughout, that a sizeable section of the population have either given up completely on social distancing, or never took it up at all. 

 

There is a workforce of around 1 million in the position of paying full PAYE but having no meaningful employment rights, including the option of furlough. There are another million plus in the opaque landscape of self-employment and IR35. There is a lot of dissatisfaction and resentment out there. 

 

Meanwhile, the railways appear to be drifting into de-facto re-nationalisation....

 

Do I think it matters that off-duty staff travel first class if there is space? No, not really; but do I see a potential for it to be a "shock horror" in the Daily Beast? Different question.....

 

 

 

Screw the press.

 

If the PR was handled (managed) correctly then it would be seen that there are some other merits to staff travelling in the first class, especially where these 1st are nearly empty or actually empty.

It usually deters dodgy little herberts and serial fare dodgers hanging out there. It reduces the likelihood of other groups of dodgy herberts from vandalising the 1st class as well.

And especially during rising passenger numbers, rising Covid infection numbers and the onset of winter, it reduces the risk of infection to Safety Critical Railway workers, without who there would be fewer trains. 

[APOLLO]

1 minute ago, Mark Saunders said:

The whole of the UK seems to have a bad dose of sour grapes and if someone gets something they don’t then they shouldn’t be allowed it!

 

 

 

Don't mention us Boomers to the Snowflakes - They'll have palpitations !!!!!!!!!

 

I've only travelled first class once, back around 1990. Being a senior officer (!!) with British Gas I was entitled to travel first class, I only used the option once as I had a company car. A weeks training course at Newcastle, Boss suggested I go by train so I did. Waste of time Wigan to Manchester Vic on a Nodding Donkey (mixing with the Plebs !!!!!!), Manchester to York behind a Brush 4 & Mk 1 coach. I changed at York to a HST for the first class HST "experience" !!!!

 

Come think of it that's the last time I rode in a Mk1 on BR, on the Journey home, Newcastle to Man Vic direct.

 

Brit15

 

 

[cravensdmufan]

Last Saturday I took my first journey by rail for three years (prior to Covid I was full time carer to my late wife who since passed away with MND in June 2020).  In fact it was my first proper day out in three years.  

 

I thought I'd attend the model railway exhibition at North Road Darlington, held in the Head of Steam museum.

 

07.48 Peterborough - Darlington :  LNER Azuma, first class carriage less than 20% occupied.  No mask wearers except staff. (Walked 1.2 miles to North Road).  Attended exhibition - not many visitors and hardly anyone wearing mask, though I chose to. 

 

11.48 North Road - Darlington : Northern Class 158,  crowded  - I would estimate 95% occupied.  Not many mask wearers.  I sat in the empty vestibule on a fold down seat for the 5 minute journey.

 

12.02 Darlington - Peterborough :  LNER Azuma, first class carriage 80% occupied as far as York then emptied out to around 20%.  Some mask wearers, though not many.

 

(As an aside I was hugely disappointed by my first ever journeys on the Azumas.  Couldn't get comfortable even in first class.  Not nearly as nice as the Mk4s and Mk3s that were on the route previously).

[rockershovel]

2 hours ago, Mark Saunders said:

The whole of the UK seems to have a bad dose of sour grapes and if someone gets something they don’t then they shouldn’t be allowed it!

 

 

You are missing my point. The last 18 months have thrown into sharp relief, a number of trends which are not new. Particularly, that at least a million workers are taxed as full employees but have no meaningful employment rights, including furlough, while another large, but indeterminate number are employees in all but name but have had their basis of taxation systematically manipulated. 

 

 

[jonhall]

6 hours ago, Wheatley said:

 

Because it doesn't cost the operator any more to sit them in the empty first class compartment than to leave them in standard class taking up space and contributing to the general lack of social distancing. A vanishingly small number of staff now get actual paid for by their employer first class travel, shoving the others in first to alleviate crowding in standard has long been some conductors' preferred option. 

 

I think there are PR issues with that, not least is that those who hold a first class ticket have paid significantly for the perceived benefit of more space/fewer people. If your argument is that its better for everyone that *someone* is moved into 1st to make more room in Standard, since the price of a standard fare wouldn't have been insignificant, should the guard have offered the space to a customer with a full flexible fare? - that, like airline upgrades, would actually build customer goodwill.

 

A couple of years ago I bought my parents 1st class tickets from Bournemouth to home, to make it easier for them to find two seats together and get their luggage on board, but they reported that most of 1st class was full of SWT/SWR staff who were clearly travelling to the ROC at Basingstoke. SWT/SWR don't do seat reservations.

 

Whilst I'm sure those who retired from British Rail won't have felt the benefit of the salary increases of the privatised railway, its certainly true that with the exception of a few passenger on a few commuter trains into 'the city' at peak times, the highest earner on the train is probably the person driving it, and therefore its not surprising that there might well be eyebrows raised. I also feel that sometimes the quality of the 'service' offered might be rather different if the people delivering it had the same exposure to the cost than their customers (from a delivering 'value' point of view) .

 

Not related to first class, but I have boarded a full and standing 150 pre-pandemic, where the only seat without a backside on it was carrying instead a drivers bag belonging to the uniformed member of staff from the TOC providing the service - I had no qualms about asking him to move it so I could sit, but should not have had to.

 

Jon

[stewartingram]

My daughters work at Tesco and get staff discount. A perk of the job. I don't complain when they are shopping in Tesco and get things cheaper thaan me.

Before I retired I worked for a contractor, maintaining systems on the Underground. I was issued with a travel pass to get around (for free) at work. I used the same trains as other passengers who (presumably) had to pay.

On my journys to and from London, on the GN routes, I often saw their staff (different TOCs over the years) retiring to the empty 1st class seats. 

What are the differences to rail staff sitting in 1st class seats that would be otherwise empty?

 

Stewart

Edited October 20, 2021 by stewartingram
typos

[Ozexpatriate]

On 17/10/2021 at 02:00, rockershovel said:

My experience is that productivity has plummeted under WFH. There is definitely a minimum level of face to face engagement necessary too work effectively. 

It's interesting that you say that. My (pre-pandemic) experience managing people who work from home was that their productivity was questionable.

 

There is an argument that WFH permits more after hours worked, even if there are more interruptions during 'core hours' and that office workers certainly take breaks (some necessary/appropriate and some "vacationing from their desk") so it's very difficult to make an accurate assessment.

 

It does seem that for white collar office workers, mandatory Monday-Friday 'core hours' at the office are, for the time being, a thing of the past.

[Michael Hodgson]

8 minutes ago, Ozexpatriate said:

There is an argument that WFH permits more after hours worked, even if there are more interruptions during 'core hours' and that office workers certainly take breaks (some necessary/appropriate and some "vacationing from their desk") so it's very difficult to make an accurate assessment.

What should matter to the employer is not how many hours the worker puts in, it's whether the work gets done and to an acceptable standard.

 

I appreciate of course that it may well be more difficult to assess and that it may be be open to abuse by some employees.  There is also potentially a problem if the worker is putting in unduly long hours and this could lead to health issues  if he's not up to the job and needs more training, assigning to other duties etc.   And if you never see him, it may be impossible to realise when there are problems such as alcoholism.  It's probably also more difficult to see who is doing well and deserving of promotion.

[Oldddudders]

The trad Dickensian discipline of being in the office every day for set hours suits the Human Resources types, but in reality many jobs involve out-meetings etc and actually that freedom can induce a sense of responsibility. Once I'd achieved a certain level of promotion, I found it occasionally useful, in the the pre-cellphone era, to simply take a day out in that first class seating. Was I skiving? No, I was writing the first draft of an important document, typically an Investment Submission for a 7-figure sum.

 

Colleagues working on the Liverpool Street rebuilding used to find there were sometimes large problems which required several team players to be round a table. Constant interruptions were a real bane. So a trip to Colchester or Ipswich and back was the answer. Paid real dividends. 

[rockershovel]

15 hours ago, Ozexpatriate said:

It's interesting that you say that. My (pre-pandemic) experience managing people who work from home was that their productivity was questionable.

 

There is an argument that WFH permits more after hours worked, even if there are more interruptions during 'core hours' and that office workers certainly take breaks (some necessary/appropriate and some "vacationing from their desk") so it's very difficult to make an accurate assessment.

 

It does seem that for white collar office workers, mandatory Monday-Friday 'core hours' at the office are, for the time being, a thing of the past.

Depends what those workers do. The most productive WFH workers tend to be older workers in functions like accounts and stock control, with data appearing in a daily, weekly or monthly cycle so that goals can be clearly defined, and experienced staff need little supervision and fairly low levels of interaction. 

 

The insufficiently trained, easily distracted, less motivated and plain idle show less well. The same applies to those with domestic pressures (especially small children and/or bored, frightened partners). 

 

I was glad to return to site, at least part time. The office was an unworkable wasteland of screens, stickers, red-and-white tape, solitary castaways on isolated desks, finger-wagging posters and judgmental gazes from the masked and shrouded gatekeepers of the abyss, Main Reception. 

 

WFH was falling into a loop of diminishing returns, too. My good wife was becoming so worn down by the constant cycle of interrupted and deferred surgery and rehab, pain and restricted movement allied to the continuous fear-mongering on tv that she was becoming a constant, deliberate distraction. Our new grandson, allied to my daughter's robust attitude to the media were just what we needed.

Edited October 20, 2021 by rockershovel

[KeithMacdonald]

23 hours ago, stewartingram said:

Before I retired I worked for a contractor, mainting systems on the Underground. I was issued with a travel pass to get around (for free) at work. I used the same trains as other passengers who (presumably) had to pay.

On my journies to and from London, on the G routes, I often saw their staff (different TOCs over the years) retiring to the empty 1st class seats. 

What are the differences to rail staff sitting in 1st class seats that be otherwise empty?

 

@stewartingram

Just for a moment, not reading carefully, I thought you said you'd been travelling 1st Class on the Underground.

 

As mentioned in the Suffolk Gazzette?

https://www.suffolkgazette.com/news/london-underground-introduces-first-class-carriages/

 

[KeithMacdonald]

7 hours ago, rockershovel said:

The most productive WFH workers tend to be older workers in functions like accounts and stock control

 

Agreed.

Plus folk in Information Technology, where using VPN / remote access / video calls was already a routine thing.

 

7 hours ago, rockershovel said:

I was glad to return to site, at least part time.

 

Same here, for one day a week, just to get out the house, get some face-to-face and real human interaction. I even got to hug the very nice cleaning ladies who call everyone darling. And a stop at the supermarket on the way home for some essentials.