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How folks value of (kit built) items differ


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Over the weekend I bought a DJH SECR/SR E1 tender loco, paintwork OK (wrongly assumed as a Wills) clearly showing a etched brass chassis, Romford (nickel) wheels and stating a Mashima motor and gearbox. Given new DJH kits are well over £100 without motor, gears and wheels, plus this is discontinued I was happy to pay £61. Spray painted black SR livery, but showing wear on exposed surfaces. In this case easy to touch up with satin or dirty black, dirty wheels giving pick up issues

 

Just after a Wills Q class loco sold for slightly less (just under £52) Triang chassis, Romford wheels (2 of which are Mazak, plus 2 flangeless centre drivers). Non runner when body is put on, parts have come unstuck and paintwork much the same, it does have a form of brake gear, but still had the oversize coupling rods

 

Don't get me wrong, I have a couple of Wills/SEF Q class locos, they are great with SEF etched chassis and a decent motor and gears, but they are quite common and usually sell for less.  

 

I do accept others see things differently and perhaps I benefitted from a wrong (Guessed) description, but a Wills SECR E class seems a rarer loco than any of these two

 

 

I must admit on what I was watching on eBay yesterday these two were both quite cheap. Most items sold well

 

I even ended up paying over £60 for some spares/parts, but I would only get a couple of decent motors for this if buying new

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Its chalk and cheese,  The Wills Q is a big hairy chested train pulling device on a super reliable proprietary chassis,  we have one and it pulls plastic bodied 2-8-0s backwards. I was actually following two Qis on eBay to see what ours is worth as its really ugly  and one went for about £50 and the other with no tender about £20.

The E1 is a showcase or exhibition layout device, delicate needing careful building and fettling, OK for high days and holidays but a watchmakers job not something you can fix with a kitchen knife.  Most of the pleasure is in the building and it don't look different enough to a Hornby L1/2P to attract much interest.  I even think they advertised it as a D1/E1, er make up yer mind lad. Spray painted black, I do that. Poundland rattle can Matt Black, covers a multitude of horrors.

I have noticed non runners fetch as much or more than runners, I put this down to most runners needing paint or work, Cab roofs droop, the windows are undersize, chimneys or boilers are lop sided , running plates and overall height excessive, and its more satisfying to fix a non runner than fix a runner, and less work.    

 

Edited by DCB
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The DJH chassis are quite robust, usually in thicker grade brass and fold up. Plus if it does have a gear box rather than a motor mount, with a Mashima motor the performance should be much better

 

As for non runners, you are quite right, the old Jinty chassis are bomb proof, usually dirty wheels or a lead come adrift. Older (possibly called vintage now) RTR locos like kit built locos are easily repaired, I do accept some kit built locos do have quite a lot of detail which if bent could effect the running. I would be far more worries with a more modern loco being a non runner 

 

Possibly for me the E1 was badly presented, firstly the correct title would have helped, next up were a selection of dark photos. Lastly a quick clean and a slight touch up would make all the difference

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9 hours ago, Asterix2012 said:

eBay is a strange place sometimes.

 

 I see items that are still available new going for more money than they would direct from the supplier from time to time.

Indeed. I was doing an idle search earlier, and these two items came up next to each other.ebay.jpg.446c2ad96a7075fa1f6ba2e3899b7213.jpg

The top posting is by the manufacturer.

 

 

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Pete

 

These are seemingly two different kits, by the same company with the larger (more expensive) one unavailable. I know little about DEMU's but the dearer one looks far more comprehensive

 

Having all of the locos I need and most of what I like, I am now looking to upgrade the older style kits with etched (or at worst milled) chassis, preferably with can motors and gearboxes, Plus I have recently started to move to EM gauge, complicating things a bit further

 

Initially it was a case of obtaining new chassis, motors and gearboxes for the locos I have. In some cases I have deconstructed the bodies, and rebuilt them with a better finish

 

In the case of the older Wills locos I am slowly replacing them where possible with Southeastern Finecast models, however for a friend I found a Wills J69 beautifully built and lined in GER livery, it had an old Triang chassis so I managed to obtain a new etched chassis, he had wheels and motor just need a High Level gearbox, plus the cab interior needs retro refitting

 

With the DJH E1 I got over the weekend, I have an unbuilt DJH kit where someone robbed it of the wheels, motor and gears. Which is as you would buy it now (for well over £100) if it were not discontinued. I now have a kit built loco, with wheels, gearbox and motor for the price of a DJH gearbox and motor, If its any good, its a keeper and I may have a kit to sell and all I need to do is to tidy up the paint work and rebuild the chassis costing a few new axles. The worst case scenario is I have a set of wheels and or a motor and gearbox, plus a discontinued kit built loco for sale minus the motor and wheels.

 

Back to the Q1 which was £9 cheaper, the chassis was a Triang Jinty, with probably a chassis worth more broken down into spares than as a runner. I was just thinking where is the value especially as it is shorting out ? I understand that the Jinty chassis is bomb proof, the shorting out should be an easy fix and for some this chassis may be more desirable due to its simplicity

 

Perhaps the question should have been, what do others look for when buying a second hand kit/kitbuilt loco

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On 30/08/2021 at 11:55, Asterix2012 said:

eBay is a strange place sometimes.

 

 I see items that are still available new going for more money than they would direct from the supplier from time to time.

 

This happens in all areas of ebay. I was after a non-railway related item once, had set my price range I was willing to pay 2nd hand and then watched 6 months of auctions where the price of 2nd hand items went for more than you could buy brand new. Eventually I managed to get one and bizarrely it was on a bid I put in a couple of days before as I was away the day the auction ended and couldn't do any manual last minute bidding.

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I guess to some extent it depends on the quality of the pictures and description - I’ve picked up some bits over the years where I’ve had to take a punt on what it actually is (not always successfully) based on the description. End of the day on eBay it depends on whether many people are willing to bid, and what advice they receive from the eBay thing that recommends a start price…

Edited by MrSimon
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44 minutes ago, MrSimon said:

I guess to some extent it depends on the quality of the pictures and description - I’ve picked up some bits over the years where I’ve had to take a punt on what it actually is (not always successfully) based on the description.

 

 

This is the trick if you want to grab a bargain, you need to spot something that others have not seen. I love bad photo's it puts people off. I hate plenty of good quality photo's as they push up the price. And as you say lack of a description or an incorrect description can depress the price. Be careful as a wrong description can increase the price meaning you are paying too much

 

44 minutes ago, MrSimon said:

 

End of the day on eBay it depends on whether many people are willing to bid, and what advice they receive from the eBay thing that recommends a start price…

 

At the weekend I had to pay just over £60 for a bunch of spares, it was 5p above the next highest bidder, so we both saw the value of the lot which had at todays prices more than £200 worth of items that I could identify, those I could not see properly I disregarded in my valuation. Would you get £200 is selling I guess not on the other hand I could quite easily pay £60  or more for the items I fancied 

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Guest Jack Benson

For the past few days, I have been carefully watching the progress of a curious loco on eBay, it was identified as a Wills/K’s N15 painted mixed traffic black and numbered 30521. The auction attracted a good number (19) of bids as the true identity was readily apparent and it looked well made, a typical DJH product of the ‘80s. Whether the final figure was justified is open to conjecture, if I am correct the last price on the ML Website was around £130 without wheels/motordrive and the final figure was less than the sum of the parts. My only modifications will be backdating of the corporate lion and a simple Zimo decoder followed by ex-works grime as befits 1951.

 

So, the initial valuation I placed on the loco was about twice the actual cost therefore I regard it as a bargain of some significance. 
 

StaySafe

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Jack

 

As I said at the start, I too am waiting for a similar purchase to arrive (today?) Wills/SEF do the SECR E but this kit is still quite rare s/h, but available new at £100 plus wheels, motor and gears

 

However for what ever reason DJH kits are more expensive with the small to mid size tender locos costing between £140 to £150.  Motor and gearbox now cost £80 and wheel sets £70

 

On s/h models the gear boxes are much the same , but one I have has the D11 motor, the other a Mashima

 

But a High level gearbox and motor now coats between £30 and £60, Romford wheels are expensive, though depending on type a bit less than via DJH

 

As for the N class, a year or more ago I bought one with a big box of spares (motors and wheels) it was tucked at the back of the photo with a poor description with everything jumbled up

Go to 20th June 

 

This lot (I actually think I brought two if not 3 lots ) was probable one of my best coup, and started me off collecting DJH kits, I must have 12 or more

 

The chassis are a bit of a pain being 00 gauge, of very early brass bar ones with K's  HP2M motors and those dreadful plastic insert wheels

Edited by hayfield
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Guest Jack Benson

'A picture is worth a thousand words' without further ado, this is the afore mentioned DJH H15 model.

spacer.png

 

Not too shabby, it will need some 'fettling' but it will do

 

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The DJH E1 arrived today, just needing the wheels to be cleaned, a few bits of black paint touch ups and 2 steps are missing

 

Has a DS10 motor and funs very well, the builder added a rear motor support, I  think the tender will pose the most problems in converting it to EM gauge. I may opt for a SEF etched chassis kit though

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