Reliability of dr5000

[DMR]

Hello,

 

I was wondering if anyone that has used the digikeijs dr5000 can comment on its reliability? 

 

I am trying to decide on a command station for a new layout (small shelf layout) and was thinking about getting a UWT-100 for the throttle (along with a digitrax LNWI).  The 2 command stations that make the most sense to me is either a zephyr or a dr5000.  The networking ability of the dr5000 sounds good but I dont want to sacrifice reliability as I have read some not so great things about that.  The zephyr seems like a more bullet proof system.

Edited September 1, 2021 by DMR
update

[roundhouse]

I have a DR5000 for use on my high level test tracks around the shed. I have the Digitrax Loconet plugged into it to operate one Digitrax DS64 accessory decoder for the turnouts and two UP5  panels where the Digitrax throttles can be plugged in around the shed.

 

It generally works fine but occassinoally the DR5000 will lock up and so I have to  power it off to stop a train that is already running. I think that this mainly occurs (but not always) when I turn on the connected computer after switching on the DR5000. I use the Computer for running JMRI panels which shows the track plan and allows control of the turnouts. I also have a Roco Mutimaus controller that I can plug into the Lenz Express net socket on the DR5000.

 

If you program and loco decoder address over 99 as a 2 digit address then the DR5000 doesn't see them which I gather is the same with Lenz systems?(I dont have much knowledge of the Lenz system being a Digitrax user for many years so others may know more about this) I have since programmed any such locos as a long (4 digit) address through JMRI and they now work fine on the DR5000.

 

I am generally happy with it apart from the occasional locking up.

 

For my exhibition layouts I use the Digitrax DCS100 command station.

[KingEdwardII]

I have a DR5000 and I do not experience any reliability problems with it.

 

I should mention that I connect my DR5000 to a Raspberry Pi running JMRI via Ethernet/Loconet.

 

I perform all driving & control of the layout via JMRI, either using the Pi (Turnouts, etc) or using WiFi attached devices (smartphones).

 

Yours, Mike.

[AndrewC]

I've had a DR5000 for a few years now. It has been used to operate large modular layouts as well as just my home layouts. The only time I get any issues is when I try to interrogate anything connected to Loconet via the Digikeijs configuration app.

Then it needs a reboot. It has been reported but no solid fix or workaround yet. It does seem that certain Loconet activities will cause issues. (adding laptop, adding or removing a booster, etc) None of these would normally happen during regular operation. 

 

At one modular meet we had trains running with Lenz, Digitrax duplex wireless, Digitrax tethered, WiThrottle, Z21 app, and Multimaus all at the same time. 

 

My normal operation is DR5000 as the master, 4 Digikeijs DR5033 boosters, 2 ancient Digitrax command station/boosters running in booster mode. Loconet T with DT400 throttles + DS64 & DAC20 stationary decoders. Loconet B to the boosters. USB to laptop running JMRI & WiServer which in turn allows me to run trains using iPad and iPhone throttles. I also use the DR5000's built in wifi to run Roco MultiMaus throttles. 

 

For the price I don't think you can really beat it. 

Edited September 1, 2021 by AndrewC

[Nigelcliffe]

If going with the DR5000, then I make the following observations.

 

1 - yes, the Digitrax LNWI will work.   But, given the DR5000 is a computer-centric device, then a computer running JMRI will give far more features on the WiThrottle service than the LNWI offers.   That computer could be a RaspberryPI, which probably costs less than a LNWI.   

 

2 - the DR5000 offers RailCom.  Which may or may not be useful later on along the line.  

 

3 - As AndrewC suggests,  consider the Roco WiFi MultiMaus as an alternative to the TCS throttle.   I'm unable to say which is better, but the Roco is an option, with a much longer history of support.  

 

 

[WIMorrison]

I can make no definitive comment on the reliability of the DR5000, suffice to say that myself and a few others found it inconsistent in performance and reverted to the Roco Z21. The firmware has been updated since I used it as they resolved the court case and settled with the designer which enabled the issue some recent updates - however they did manage to break a few items in the updates which are also being looked at.

 

This link shows you the current status of known issues Digikeijs 1st generation roadmap You will see that there several 'bugs' to be sorted, and more keep appearing.

 

I would point out a major issue with the hardware, which is that it only supports one protocol on the network, which includes the Wi-Fi. This means that if you set the Wi-Fi to Z21 Protocol (which is required for Roco Wi-Fi Multimaus) then you also need to use that protocol on the LAN. You cannot use Z21 on the Wi-Fi and LocoNet TCP/IP on the LAN and Wi-Fi at the same time. If you use USB to connect to your computer then this will not be an issue, but it is if you want to use LAN.

 

I would think carefully before jumping in, especially as this is the most important purchase you will be making to control an expensive fleet of locos and other items.

[DMR]

Thank you everyone for your comments and sharing your experience with it.  

 

A bit more info for context.  I am a new modeler (but had a layout as a kid), the layout is a small 9ft long (~3 Meters) HO switching shelf that really doesn't need a lot to run.  I only expect to have maybe 3 loco's with only 1 operating at a time (maybe 2 in a consist).  Turnouts will be manually switched, and being a short shelf i dont see any need for block detection etc etc, or computer control.  Unless im missing something here..

 

Nigelcliffe,  Can you provide more info on what features I would be giving up by using a LNWI?  Based on my needs I'm not sure if I would really need any of them,  and the LNWI does seem simpler then relying on another computer.

 

The thought of a run away train is concerning as with the size of my layout it would mean either running into the backdrop/building or off the layout! lol.

 

I'm really leaning strongly to the zephyr, it would still give me the option to use jmri for decoder programming.  The other option is to use a NCE powercab which is likely more then enough for my layout (and a lot cheaper then also buying a uwt-100) but it really seems like out dated tech that it bothers me spending money on.  I would need to buy the USB adapter to run jmri.  Also it seems strange to still be needing a cord in the year 2021..  I know some people will disagree with that..

                    

 

Edited September 1, 2021 by DMR
update

[Nigelcliffe]

You'll need to do your own assessment of features on throttles.   
Broadly, using the LNWI means anything about a loco has to be carried in the throttle (eg. function key types, locomotive descriptions etc..).  Whereas using a computer running JMRI gives control of those features centrally (and you say you plan to connect JMRI anyway...).   Can't say how much of those features the TCS throttle makes use of. 

 

The DR5000 will talk to JMRI, just as it talkes to a Zephyr.    JMRI is identical in functionality for programming on the systems - the differences will be how fast the programming interface is on each device.  

 

For a layout of the size discussed, anything mentioned so far will do the job. 

The big difference with throttles is the older US designs have fixed function behaviour, where only F2 is "non-latching" (tends to be used for a horn noise).  The remainder are "latching", so one push for on, another push for off.    European influenced throttles tend to allow customisation of which key is latching and which is not latching.   

This behaviour issue matters for some sound decoders.     Can't say how the TCS throttle deals with this. 

The remainder becomes "personal feel" - I find throttles like the Zephyr's desk knob leads to a different driving style to the buttons/wheel of a NCE PowerCab.  A TCS throttle will be different again.   

 

 

 

 

 

[melmerby]

5 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

I can make no definitive comment on the reliability of the DR5000, suffice to say that myself and a few others found it inconsistent in performance and reverted to the Roco Z21. The firmware has been updated since I used it as they resolved the court case and settled with the designer which enabled the issue some recent updates - however they did manage to break a few items in the updates which are also being looked at.

 

This link shows you the current status of known issues Digikeijs 1st generation roadmap You will see that there several 'bugs' to be sorted, and more keep appearing.

 

I would point out a major issue with the hardware, which is that it only supports one protocol on the network, which includes the Wi-Fi. This means that if you set the Wi-Fi to Z21 Protocol (which is required for Roco Wi-Fi Multimaus) then you also need to use that protocol on the LAN. You cannot use Z21 on the Wi-Fi and LocoNet TCP/IP on the LAN and Wi-Fi at the same time. If you use USB to connect to your computer then this will not be an issue, but it is if you want to use LAN.

 

I would think carefully before jumping in, especially as this is the most important purchase you will be making to control an expensive fleet of locos and other items.

Seconded re: issues.

I have had two and still use one for odd testing but both exhibited problems when used for train automation.

IIRC the latest firmware I tried was 1.5.2 (3?) without an improvement.

The latest firmware is now 1.6.1, so as Iain says might have improved the situation.

 

IMHO this was a very underdeveloped product when it first hit the market with several missing functions. (I was an early adopter at ver 1.1.2) and should have gone through much more testing before release.

 

BTW the prices are about to rise by 5-10% due to increased component costs.

[DMR]

40 minutes ago, Nigelcliffe said:

You'll need to do your own assessment of features on throttles.   
Broadly, using the LNWI means anything about a loco has to be carried in the throttle (eg. function key types, locomotive descriptions etc..).  Whereas using a computer running JMRI gives control of those features centrally (and you say you plan to connect JMRI anyway...).   Can't say how much of those features the TCS throttle makes use of. 

 

 

Thanks!  Just trying to understand what i would be giving up by going with a LNWI..  My understanding of the TCS throttle is it can get button functions and loco info from a jmri roster..  I'm having a tough time figuring out what happens if it doesn't though. the manual is not totally clear on that.

 

Regarding running Jmri my intention was to only run it on a laptop when needed to program a loco, otherwise it wouldn't be used.

 

If i go with a zephyr and UWT-100 i would likely never use the built in throttle on the zephyr, unless for testing.

[Nigelcliffe]

6 minutes ago, DMR said:

 

Thanks!  Just trying to understand what i would be giving up by going with a LNWI..  My understanding of the TCS throttle is it can get button functions and loco info from a jmri roster..  I'm having a tough time figuring out what happens if it doesn't though. the manual is not totally clear on that.

 

Regarding running Jmri my intention was to only run it on a laptop when needed to program a loco, otherwise it wouldn't be used.

 

 

Hence why I suggested a Raspberry PI rather than a LNWI.   The PI is small and probably costs less than the LNWI.  The PI runs JMRI.  The PI can act as the WiFi access point (like the LNWI).  The PI doesn't need a screen, keyboard or mouse.   There is a single download for the PI with everything for JMRI pre-configured; download the file and put it on a SD card, put SD card in PI, turn on PI.  That's it done.   You can control the PI using "remote desktop" on a Windows10 laptop (and something equivalent on a Mac laptop).  

 

You'll get more info on what the TCS throttle actually does on some US forums running on Groups.IO.   They're more likely to have used one.  

 

[DMR]

3 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

 

Hence why I suggested a Raspberry PI rather than a LNWI.   The PI is small and probably costs less than the LNWI.  The PI runs JMRI.  The PI can act as the WiFi access point (like the LNWI).  The PI doesn't need a screen, keyboard or mouse.   There is a single download for the PI with everything for JMRI pre-configured; download the file and put it on a SD card, put SD card in PI, turn on PI.  That's it done.   You can control the PI using "remote desktop" on a Windows10 laptop (and something equivalent on a Mac laptop).  

 

You'll get more info on what the TCS throttle actually does on some US forums running on Groups.IO.   They're more likely to have used one.  

 

 

I am familiar with pi's as i have a zero running pi-hole.  Just wasnt really looking to have one on the layout.   I do like the idea of the roster being available though instead of typing in the loco number..  Small things though lol.

 

Is it a problem if the PI & JMRI gets its power cut instead of using a shutdown command?  Would prefer to just flip a switch on/off ;).

 

Looking at pricing, once you add in the power supply, case, memory card etc its really about the same price as a LNWI.  But I could access JMRI wirelessly from a laptop then instead of hooking up a usb cable..  Again small things as programming loco's is not something that will happen very often.

 

It seems like if im going to use a UWT-100 i just need to find the cheapest and most reliable dcc box i can find. hahaha  Which the zephyr sounds like the way to go, and the built in throttle would be ok for debugging.

Edited September 1, 2021 by DMR

[Erixtar1992]

I have this exact setup.

DR5000

Digitrax LNWI

TCS UWT-100

 

cant fault it, its excellent, i have never regretted it once. 
UWT-100 is easly the nicest to use handset on the market.

 

yes JMRI would allow you to name the functions (you cant otherwise) but i didnt want to rely on a laptop to be able to use my layout. I simply turn on and go.

 

i reviewed the handset on youtube if you search for it

 

 

Edited September 1, 2021 by Erixtar1992

[DMR]

3 hours ago, Erixtar1992 said:

I have this exact setup.

DR5000

Digitrax LNWI

TCS UWT-100

 

cant fault it, its excellent, i have never regretted it once. 
UWT-100 is easly the nicest to use handset on the market.

 

yes JMRI would allow you to name the functions (you cant otherwise) but i didnt want to rely on a laptop to be able to use my layout. I simply turn on and go.

 

i reviewed the handset on youtube if you search for it

 

 

 

Actually I have seen your video, this is great as i can ask you some direct questions LOL

 

When you say you can't name the functions, I assume you mean custom naming or renaming?  I ask because in this video 

 at time 18:35 the person is changing button functions to what looks like pre defined options that have names.  I noticed in your video that yours just showed the function number (f20 etc).  Is that because those functions didnt have a predefined common function?

 

Another question, your custom button programming. What happens when you change locomotives or power cycle the remote? Does it retain the programming or reset back to the factory button settings?

 

Thanks again for posting!

Edited September 2, 2021 by DMR

[Erixtar1992]

On 02/09/2021 at 01:45, DMR said:

 

Actually I have seen your video, this is great as i can ask you some direct questions LOL

 

When you say you can't name the functions, I assume you mean custom naming or renaming?  I ask because in this video 

 at time 18:35 the person is changing button functions to what looks like pre defined options that have names.  I noticed in your video that yours just showed the function number (f20 etc).  Is that because those functions didnt have a predefined common function?

 

Another question, your custom button programming. What happens when you change locomotives or power cycle the remote? Does it retain the programming or reset back to the factory button settings?

 

Thanks again for posting!

Yeah to put your own custom names in you need to be running the layout via JMRI.

Otherwise you just have the standard list of button names to choose from.

 

the reason mine just show F20 ect, is because i use ESU Loksound on every loco and i reprogram every loco to a standard button layout, so for example F20 on my locos is always tail lights on both ends where possible hence i dont need to name them.

 

you can choose any function for those 4 though but sadly their list of names isnt very good.

 

Without JMRI the custom buttons at the top will stay the same ones no matter the locos.

 

if you turn the remote off then back on if i remember it comes back to what it was doing before.

 

its expensive but its an excellent bit of kit IMO. Best display out there, no awful touch screen, and has the powercab setup with a centre thumbwheel & +/- 1 or 10 speed step buttons.

you will like it.

 

the LNWI was pretty much plug in and play. Very easy just a shame to need it in the first place as its pricey, thats the only issue.

 

eric

[DMR]

On 01/09/2021 at 06:45, WIMorrison said:

I can make no definitive comment on the reliability of the DR5000, suffice to say that myself and a few others found it inconsistent in performance and reverted to the Roco Z21. The firmware has been updated since I used it as they resolved the court case and settled with the designer which enabled the issue some recent updates - however they did manage to break a few items in the updates which are also being looked at.

 

This link shows you the current status of known issues Digikeijs 1st generation roadmap You will see that there several 'bugs' to be sorted, and more keep appearing.

 

I would point out a major issue with the hardware, which is that it only supports one protocol on the network, which includes the Wi-Fi. This means that if you set the Wi-Fi to Z21 Protocol (which is required for Roco Wi-Fi Multimaus) then you also need to use that protocol on the LAN. You cannot use Z21 on the Wi-Fi and LocoNet TCP/IP on the LAN and Wi-Fi at the same time. If you use USB to connect to your computer then this will not be an issue, but it is if you want to use LAN.

 

I would think carefully before jumping in, especially as this is the most important purchase you will be making to control an expensive fleet of locos and other items.

 

WIMorrison &  melmerby   

Can you give some more info on the issues you had?  In searching online it seems like a lot of the issues where related to train automation (itrain etc),  and also there was a lot of user error with the protocols, and then 1 or 2 that the units needed to be replaced.  

 

I have found a source for a white z21 that is likely enough for my layout, but once i add the network unlock the price is more then a zephyr..

Edited September 8, 2021 by DMR