Jump to content
 

Please use M,M&M only for topics that do not fit within other forum areas. All topics posted here await admin team approval to ensure they don't belong elsewhere.

Creating a push-along 00 locomotive.


jonny777
 Share

Recommended Posts

My youngest grandson has been staying with us for a few days. He loves building tracks on the floor and pushing carriages around the routes he has made. He is in his own little world, and even the fact that SWMBO asked him where the engine was did not faze him. 

 

This set me thinking, if I could match a tender drive loco body/chassis with a loco drive tender, he would have a proper engine to pull his carriages. 

 

I was hoping someone with a more detailed knowledge of which locomotives might fit the bill (having been sold as both tender and loco drive during their history. 

I don't suppose he would care if the tender was not appropriate for the engine in real life (he is only four and a half) but my nerdy self would prefer an accurate pairing. 

 

I know I could just remove the motors from existing models, but that seems to be wasteful as far as I am concerned. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

Would it have to be a loco with tender, I'd have said an 0-4-0 or 0-6-0 tank would be more manageable, get something cheap you can just remove the motor or gears. 

  • Agree 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, that is true Andy; but he likes locos with tenders due to him having a dvd with Gordon, Henry and James on it; and they seem to have impressed him with their speed and importance. 

 

I was going to get a 57xx and call it Duck, but thought he might benefit from a 'big engine policy' where subsequently I can utilise my old Lima Mk1s which have been in their boxes for decades. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

Yes, that is true Andy; but he likes locos with tenders due to him having a dvd with Gordon, Henry and James on it; and they seem to have impressed him with their speed and importance. 

 

I was going to get a 57xx and call it Duck, but thought he might benefit from a 'big engine policy' where subsequently I can utilise my old Lima Mk1s which have been in their boxes for decades. 

 

Dead tender drive Hornby Flying Scotsman are probably still ten a penny. The 1980s version. Old Mainline or Airfix Royal Scots, and Jubilees as well. Lima Crab for James?

 

 

I thought it was a pity those cheap GBL magazine models weren't moveable rather than having a diecast chassis. Maybe it would have made them subject to copyright though.

 

 

Jason

Link to post
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Dead tender drive Hornby Flying Scotsman are probably still ten a penny. The 1980s version. Old Mainline or Airfix Royal Scots, and Jubilees as well. Lima Crab for James?

 

 

 

Jason

 

 

Thanks Jason. That is the kind of inspiration I need. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The original Triang Britannia was converted to tender drive in the 1970s. The only snag was the general change in the colour green used in the 1970s compared to the 1960s. Possibly the 1980s Hornby Saint could be paired with the earlier Hall tender. They did run with bigger tenders in their later years.

Edited by BernardTPM
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps something with inside cylinders may be more robust, I’m thinking of the Hornby B12 if you’re wanting a ‘big’ loco otherwise the Hornby Jinty and GWR pannier and LNER J83 are cheap and cheerful.

All the above have very few loose parts like chimneys, handrails etc.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

He's clearly a lad after my own heart; I spent many happy hours on the floor or the living room table as an anklebiter in precisely this activity, but I had the advantage of the 'Lone Star' range, which were ideal for it!  The die cast precursor of N gauge, and eventually morphed into 'Treble-O-Lectric' in plastic bodied form, these were die cast locos, coaches, and wagons largely based on rough copies of the Rovex Triang range, with the addition of a Hornby Dublo inspired A4. 

 

As well as the A4, there were Princess Royals, the BR 3MT prairie tank, a Jinty, and a 350hp shunter with a Jinty chassis.  Rolling stock was clones of the original Rovex shorty LMS coaches, and the Triang 9" Mk1s, 7 plank coal wagons, the Rovex type cattle wagon, a 1 planker, and a tanker (tank mounted on the 1 planker), along with a GW toad brake van; can't recall any vans.  There was also a version of the 'Transcontinental' diesel with aluminium coaches to match, and there was plastic freight stock to go with these in Treblo days. 

 

They were crude; no windows, and solid flangeless pony and bogie wheels on the A4, Princess, and 3MT.  There was no attempt at motion and outside cylinders were dummy, and no buffers to lock.  Couplings were simple hook and loop.  The track was also die cast, and based on the Rovex/Triang 'Standard' grey train set track.  There were left and right turnouts and a matching diamond crossing, bridge incline piers, and  a bowstrung girder bridge for the top, platforms, station buildings, and a signal box.  But they were ideally suited to pushalong play, easy to put on the track with a level crossing rail piece, and bombproof indestructible. 

 

Their modern equivalents are the Brio and similar wooden trains, but it sounds as if your lad wants something a little less toy-like; good for him!  It is not difficult to remove the motors from older RTR locos, making them effectively pushalong models, and the older Triang and Hornby Dublo models are more robust and better able to withstand this sort of treatment.  It is inevitable that a good bit of pressure is going to be applied to the models from above, and a single piece body tooling is much better able to cope with this, but use on the carpet will mean that a good bit of fluff is picked up and it will need to be frequently cleaned out. 

 

I would avoid locos with outside cylinders, a weak spot, and if there are any, I would remove the motion and coupling rods and store them safely.  On Triang and Triang Hornby locos you simply remove the crankpin screws in the centre wheelset.  To remove the motors, unclip the feed wires from the spring clip on the top of the motor and remove the motor retaining screw; the motor simply pulls out.  On older Triang or Hornby Dublo locos, the axles run through holes bored in the chassis block, so you can remove the pickup plate and the pickups as well to keep the fluff away from them; this will also result in a freeer running pushalong loco. 

 

Later models, by which I think I mean post about 1975, with more separate detail parts and chassis with brake detail included, are less amenable to this type of treatment, and track is a major problem as it is rarely designed to withstand continual taking apart and re-connecting by kids, who will be less fussy about not twisting the connections in the process.  Probably the best and most robust track to use is Hornby Dublo 3 rail.  For rolling stock, I would take into account the 13" radius curves and avoid scale length mk1 coaches (later Triang, Lima, Mainline).  The absolute best couplings are the original Rovex hook and loop, but in practice most of the stock you will be using for this game will have either the early stamped out metal Triang tension locks, the later type of t/l, or the Hornby Dublo/Trix Twin 'Peco' buckeye. 

 

3 rail Hornby Dublo and Trix Twin coaches and wagons are not rare on the 'Bay, despite what some of the sellers want you to think, and the coarse scale flanges will be fine on the HD 3-rail track, also in plentiful supply.  Your problem will be the excessive curve to straight piece ratio.

 

A selection of track, including turnouts and at least one diamond xing, and some Triang, Hornby Dublo, or Trix Twin stock should cost less than £100 second hand; 2 or 3 locos, say 4 coaches (big express or two smaller trains), and a dozen wagons with 2 brake vans, and the rest spent on track, and the lad will be in railway heaven for many long hours.  If he then progresses to a working layout, then the stock may need re-wheeling (any HD 3 rail or Trix Twin will, definitely) to cope with the finer standards of the track, but any Triang with the later type of tension lock coupling should cope with setrack, and of course with the pickups and motors replaced, will work as well as they ever did.  3 rail track, of course, will have no further use, but might become the basis  of a 'retro' layout.  He can then 'progress' to current stock and 'proper' modelling, whatever that is; he will then be one of us (one of us, one of us) and as lost to the world as we are for any practicable purposes.

 

One of us, one of us...

Edited by The Johnster
Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually the Treble-0-Lectric models only contained enough plastic to stop them shorting out and were largely diecast still, though the coaches did get clear plastic windows.

 

I'd say a de-motored Triang Princess would make a robust pushalong with very little in the way of detail parts to fall off. Must be thousands of them around too.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
7 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

The 1980s version. Old Mainline or Airfix Royal Scots, and Jubilees as well. Lima Crab for James?

 

 

 

I'd avoid Mainline - the split axles might not stand up to rough play and disconnecting the motor from the wheels will involve significant disassembly of the chassis.

Link to post
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, The Johnster said:

He's clearly a lad after my own heart; I spent many happy hours on the floor or the living room table as an anklebiter in precisely this activity, but I had the advantage of the 'Lone Star' range, which were ideal for it!  The die cast precursor of N gauge, and eventually morphed into 'Treble-O-Lectric' in plastic bodied form, these were die cast locos, coaches, and wagons largely based on rough copies of the Rovex Triang range, with the addition of a Hornby Dublo inspired A4. 

 

As well as the A4, there were Princess Royals, the BR 3MT prairie tank, a Jinty, and a 350hp shunter with a Jinty chassis.  Rolling stock was clones of the original Rovex shorty LMS coaches, and the Triang 9" Mk1s, 7 plank coal wagons, the Rovex type cattle wagon, a 1 planker, and a tanker (tank mounted on the 1 planker), along with a GW toad brake van; can't recall any vans.  There was also a version of the 'Transcontinental' diesel with aluminium coaches to match, and there was plastic freight stock to go with these in Treblo days. 

 

They were crude; no windows, and solid flangeless pony and bogie wheels on the A4, Princess, and 3MT.  There was no attempt at motion and outside cylinders were dummy, and no buffers to lock.  Couplings were simple hook and loop.  The track was also die cast, and based on the Rovex/Triang 'Standard' grey train set track.  There were left and right turnouts and a matching diamond crossing, bridge incline piers, and  a bowstrung girder bridge for the top, platforms, station buildings, and a signal box.  But they were ideally suited to pushalong play, easy to put on the track with a level crossing rail piece, and bombproof indestructible. 

 

Their modern equivalents are the Brio and similar wooden trains, but it sounds as if your lad wants something a little less toy-like; good for him!  It is not difficult to remove the motors from older RTR locos, making them effectively pushalong models, and the older Triang and Hornby Dublo models are more robust and better able to withstand this sort of treatment.  It is inevitable that a good bit of pressure is going to be applied to the models from above, and a single piece body tooling is much better able to cope with this, but use on the carpet will mean that a good bit of fluff is picked up and it will need to be frequently cleaned out. 

 

I would avoid locos with outside cylinders, a weak spot, and if there are any, I would remove the motion and coupling rods and store them safely.  On Triang and Triang Hornby locos you simply remove the crankpin screws in the centre wheelset.  To remove the motors, unclip the feed wires from the spring clip on the top of the motor and remove the motor retaining screw; the motor simply pulls out.  On older Triang or Hornby Dublo locos, the axles run through holes bored in the chassis block, so you can remove the pickup plate and the pickups as well to keep the fluff away from them; this will also result in a freeer running pushalong loco. 

 

Later models, by which I think I mean post about 1975, with more separate detail parts and chassis with brake detail included, are less amenable to this type of treatment, and track is a major problem as it is rarely designed to withstand continual taking apart and re-connecting by kids, who will be less fussy about not twisting the connections in the process.  Probably the best and most robust track to use is Hornby Dublo 3 rail.  For rolling stock, I would take into account the 13" radius curves and avoid scale length mk1 coaches (later Triang, Lima, Mainline).  The absolute best couplings are the original Rovex hook and loop, but in practice most of the stock you will be using for this game will have either the early stamped out metal Triang tension locks, the later type of t/l, or the Hornby Dublo/Trix Twin 'Peco' buckeye. 

 

3 rail Hornby Dublo and Trix Twin coaches and wagons are not rare on the 'Bay, despite what some of the sellers want you to think, and the coarse scale flanges will be fine on the HD 3-rail track, also in plentiful supply.  Your problem will be the excessive curve to straight piece ratio.

 

A selection of track, including turnouts and at least one diamond xing, and some Triang, Hornby Dublo, or Trix Twin stock should cost less than £100 second hand; 2 or 3 locos, say 4 coaches (big express or two smaller trains), and a dozen wagons with 2 brake vans, and the rest spent on track, and the lad will be in railway heaven for many long hours.  If he then progresses to a working layout, then the stock may need re-wheeling (any HD 3 rail or Trix Twin will, definitely) to cope with the finer standards of the track, but any Triang with the later type of tension lock coupling should cope with setrack, and of course with the pickups and motors replaced, will work as well as they ever did.  3 rail track, of course, will have no further use, but might become the basis  of a 'retro' layout.  He can then 'progress' to current stock and 'proper' modelling, whatever that is; he will then be one of us (one of us, one of us) and as lost to the world as we are for any practicable purposes.

 

One of us, one of us...

 

Thanks very much. A lot of good advice for me to ponder on. 

 

I was also a Lone Star addict in my early years, and had all of the items you describe including the station, signal box and level crossing. In fact, I may still have it all in a box up in the loft. 

 

My track was always as big a junction station as I could produce from the points and crossings I owned, and when a schoolmate offered to sell me his collection for about 2/6d (a lot of money in those days, but then he had a lot of track and had tried to model Sleaford West Junction) I ended up with enough to stretch half way around the living room. I had no realism in the ends of the track work - trains were just pushed off the end onto the carpet and were picked up and made ready to appear anywhere as a completely different service. 

 

Later I painted the US single ended diesel blue, with a full yellow end, and the US carriages became blue and 'grey' (actually white, as that was the only pale colour I had) once the newly painted Mk1s started appearing on the real railway. 

 

Sometimes, I would get bored with locomotives and just ran my highly sacrilegious SR third rail scenario, using the carriages as EMUs and guards vans as tram engines pulling occasional goods trains. East Croydon it was certainly not. 

 

I spent hours and hours with this, much to the annoyance of my mother who thought I should be outside playing cowboys and indians like other kids; but I was not at all enthusiastic about pretending to kill people. 

 

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember the Lone Star push along stuff, I had loads that I gave / sold (for peanuts) when I got my first Tri-ang TT set back around 1960 - still had to push it occasionally !!!

 

Look on ebay for old locos sold for spares / repair, or model shops, remove motor / gears (fairly easy on older stuff).

 

Brit15

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a collection of Lone Star stuff too, it lived in a shoe box. Still have a signal somewhere......

I'd agree with @BernardTPM, something as robust as a demotored old Tri-ang Princess would fit the bill, if the bogie/pony truck combination would be too fiddly for small hands then there should be a fair number of old B12s out there too. Hold on the the motors though, they may ultimately be still sound enough to get running again. Generally speaking though, more detail = more fragile.

 

Back in the mid 80s I had a spare and slightly battered Tri-ang Hornby Hymek body so I screwed a piece of 2x1 into it and added a couple of spare Tri-ang Pullman/DMU bogies as a pushalong for my 3-year-old son. Typically I couldn't resist the temptation to paint it blue as 7017 in its final guise. It must have got some use as it got even more battered and the wheel flanges wore away. My son went on to acquire an encyclopedic knowledge of...............cars. No interest in trains at all. Sigh.

  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
2 hours ago, jonny777 said:

trains were just pushed off the end onto the carpet and were picked up and made ready to appear anywhere as a completely different service. 

 

You had clearly already grasped the fiddle yard concept...

 

2 hours ago, jonny777 said:

In fact, I may still have it all in a box up in the loft. 

 

If you do, problem solved; the lad will enjoy it and not be able to destroy it.  It will also teach him some good stuff; how to exploit setrack geometry, how to devise workable track plans, and so forth.  When he outgrows it, it can go back in the loft for his kids one day.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

As he is quite young I would advise staying well clear of any engines after the 1980's. Too many pieces to fall off. But something like an old Triang/Hornby Princess or Albert Hall would fit the bill. Or even at a push a B12. Not counting the L1 and 2P 4-4-0's. Just look for the spares and repairs engines. They are all robust and  tender engines. No little fiddly bits to fall off. And easy to make a push along. Just take the motor out. Or if push really came to shove price wise a Deely 3F still fits the bill.

There is actually a pair up for sale on Ebay for £25.00 right now. There are always loads of them going cheap for spares.

1a princess.jpg

Triang-Great-Western-Albert-Hall-Locomotive-4983.jpg

triang b12.jpg

L1 o1.jpg

2P 2.jpg

deely step 3.jpg

Edited by cypherman
Link to post
Share on other sites

A 4-4-0 would make a good ‘Edward’.

 

Lonestar? Having two brothers, we used to build three-track circuits on the dining table, one road each. Biggest disappoint was having to dismantle it all at meal times; second biggest disappointment were those little ‘ears’ which held the axles in the axle-boxes, and which were always breaking off, causing the wheels to fall out.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Both Gaeity and Budgie did push along tanks in OO in the 50s/60s - the Gaeity was an N2 (and maybe did a Pannier too), and Budgie did a Jinty. You can pick the Budgie version up on Ebay quite cheaply (there are some on at the moment for less than a tenner) but the N2 might be a bit more difficult.

 

Just a thought, I don't know if they could use proprietry track, however.

Edited by billy_anorak59
A track warning...
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 04/09/2021 at 19:39, The Johnster said:

He's clearly a lad after my own heart; I spent many happy hours on the floor or the living room table as an anklebiter in precisely this activity, but I had the advantage of the 'Lone Star' range, which were ideal for it!  The die cast precursor of N gauge, and eventually morphed into 'Treble-O-Lectric' in plastic bodied form, these were die cast locos, coaches, and wagons largely based on rough copies of the Rovex Triang range, with the addition of a Hornby Dublo inspired A4. 

 

As well as the A4, there were Princess Royals, the BR 3MT prairie tank, a Jinty, and a 350hp shunter with a Jinty chassis.  Rolling stock was clones of the original Rovex shorty LMS coaches, and the Triang 9" Mk1s, 7 plank coal wagons, the Rovex type cattle wagon, a 1 planker, and a tanker (tank mounted on the 1 planker), along with a GW toad brake van; can't recall any vans.  There was also a version of the 'Transcontinental' diesel with aluminium coaches to match, and there was plastic freight stock to go with these in Treblo days. 

 

They were crude; no windows, and solid flangeless pony and bogie wheels on the A4, Princess, and 3MT.  There was no attempt at motion and outside cylinders were dummy, and no buffers to lock.  Couplings were simple hook and loop.  The track was also die cast, and based on the Rovex/Triang 'Standard' grey train set track.  There were left and right turnouts and a matching diamond crossing, bridge incline piers, and  a bowstrung girder bridge for the top, platforms, station buildings, and a signal box.  But they were ideally suited to pushalong play, easy to put on the track with a level crossing rail piece, and bombproof indestructible. 

 

Their modern equivalents are the Brio and similar wooden trains, but it sounds as if your lad wants something a little less toy-like; good for him!  It is not difficult to remove the motors from older RTR locos, making them effectively pushalong models, and the older Triang and Hornby Dublo models are more robust and better able to withstand this sort of treatment.  It is inevitable that a good bit of pressure is going to be applied to the models from above, and a single piece body tooling is much better able to cope with this, but use on the carpet will mean that a good bit of fluff is picked up and it will need to be frequently cleaned out. 

 

I would avoid locos with outside cylinders, a weak spot, and if there are any, I would remove the motion and coupling rods and store them safely.  On Triang and Triang Hornby locos you simply remove the crankpin screws in the centre wheelset.  To remove the motors, unclip the feed wires from the spring clip on the top of the motor and remove the motor retaining screw; the motor simply pulls out.  On older Triang or Hornby Dublo locos, the axles run through holes bored in the chassis block, so you can remove the pickup plate and the pickups as well to keep the fluff away from them; this will also result in a freeer running pushalong loco. 

 

Later models, by which I think I mean post about 1975, with more separate detail parts and chassis with brake detail included, are less amenable to this type of treatment, and track is a major problem as it is rarely designed to withstand continual taking apart and re-connecting by kids, who will be less fussy about not twisting the connections in the process.  Probably the best and most robust track to use is Hornby Dublo 3 rail.  For rolling stock, I would take into account the 13" radius curves and avoid scale length mk1 coaches (later Triang, Lima, Mainline).  The absolute best couplings are the original Rovex hook and loop, but in practice most of the stock you will be using for this game will have either the early stamped out metal Triang tension locks, the later type of t/l, or the Hornby Dublo/Trix Twin 'Peco' buckeye. 

 

3 rail Hornby Dublo and Trix Twin coaches and wagons are not rare on the 'Bay, despite what some of the sellers want you to think, and the coarse scale flanges will be fine on the HD 3-rail track, also in plentiful supply.  Your problem will be the excessive curve to straight piece ratio.

 

A selection of track, including turnouts and at least one diamond xing, and some Triang, Hornby Dublo, or Trix Twin stock should cost less than £100 second hand; 2 or 3 locos, say 4 coaches (big express or two smaller trains), and a dozen wagons with 2 brake vans, and the rest spent on track, and the lad will be in railway heaven for many long hours.  If he then progresses to a working layout, then the stock may need re-wheeling (any HD 3 rail or Trix Twin will, definitely) to cope with the finer standards of the track, but any Triang with the later type of tension lock coupling should cope with setrack, and of course with the pickups and motors replaced, will work as well as they ever did.  3 rail track, of course, will have no further use, but might become the basis  of a 'retro' layout.  He can then 'progress' to current stock and 'proper' modelling, whatever that is; he will then be one of us (one of us, one of us) and as lost to the world as we are for any practicable purposes.

 

One of us, one of us...

I had these too  .Good fun .I had a weird dream  once that they would put motors in them but nah......

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm too young to have had any of these the first time round but did collect some old (cheap) diecast trains as a kid, including Lone Star (still quite into Lone Star stuff as they used to have a factory nearby and it has track and proper wheels, unlike a lot of others, although originally I started with Matchbox locos to go with more modern Ertl stuff).

 

Anyway, having read some of the responses I'm reminded that the Dinky GER loco fits on 00 track, as seen here: 

Dinky Toys 784 Goods Train Set and track

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

I'm too young to have had any of these the first time round but did collect some old (cheap) diecast trains as a kid, including Lone Star (still quite into Lone Star stuff as they used to have a factory nearby and it has track and proper wheels, unlike a lot of others, although originally I started with Matchbox locos to go with more modern Ertl stuff).

 

Anyway, having read some of the responses I'm reminded that the Dinky GER loco fits on 00 track, as seen here: 

Dinky Toys 784 Goods Train Set and track

 

 

 

 

I think they must have had a Tri-ang 'Nellie' in front of them when they designed that.........but at least it has outside cylinders and steam pipes, so is technically more plausible (just about!)

Link to post
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Neil Phillips said:

 

I think they must have had a Tri-ang 'Nellie' in front of them when they designed that.........but at least it has outside cylinders and steam pipes, so is technically more plausible (just about!)

It's a diecast version of the Hornby Dublo/ Wrenn, 2-rail Junior electric set locomotive. A last throw of the dice for the firm.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...