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Pick Up Goods Services and Station Goods Yard Configurations


Ian J.
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Hi all,

 

I'd like to try and get a better understanding of how pick up goods (trip working?) services and station goods yard layouts & configurations affected each other.

 

Initially I need a better understanding of how a pick up goods working shunted any given station yard in order to drop off inbound wagons, and pick up outbound wagons, within the limits of the main line, any/all sidings and any headshunt.

 

I've tried to work things out how they might have been purely logically, but I know logic is likely not to be representative of reality. I think that single line branches and multi track lines would probably have been worked differently, mainly because the branch line was likely far less busy and therefore could likely use the 'main' for headshunt, etc, whereas the multi track lines would likely to have been busy enough that the headshunt etc would have to have been self-contained.

 

But my knowledge simply isn't enough to know for sure.

 

TIA

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I think it was very much something that depended on the location - often on a branch stations would only be shunted in one direction (whichever was more convenient for the layout), with wagons being tripped via the terminus. I believe they would also try to marshal the train appropriately, so that all the wagons for a given station were together.

 

It's worth looking at the signalling diagrams on the SRS site for the company you're modelling (e.g. https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/srdiagrams.htm), as they can often give insights, and of course photos.

 

I'll use the example of Alresford, on the LSWR Alton-Winchester line, now the Watercress line (https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/srn/R9.htm) simply because I've recently seen a photo of it being shunted. In the photo (top of https://watercressline.co.uk/our-history/), you can see a down train sat in the up platform, which doesn't appear to be a signalled move from the single line at the time. The points are set, and the shunt dummy cleared, for the loco to draw forwards (presumably with some of the wagons) into the headshunt, leaving the brake in the platform. It'd then shunt the sidings, which all kick back off the headshunt, before returning to the train and continuing towards Winchester.

 

 

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Ian, here is a typical example of a reasonable size town goods yard. Nearly all traffic arrived on the Down Main and was set back in to rhe sidings, the brake van being "Knocked Off" into a spare road and the train then shunted or made up as required. If I can help further please ask.

1 CHERRY TREE 1972.jpg

CHERRY TREE SB Mick's first box in March 1980.jpg

CHERRY TREE Colour..jpg

TANDEM CHERRY TREE 2.jpg

CHERRY TREE Looking south 1.jpg

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We tend to focus on branch pickups and their working at branch termini, and of course the daily (or sometimes twice daily) pickup was an important part of branch line work, but the bulk of pickup trains plied their trade along sections of main lines, servicing yards at passing stations.  Few survived the Beeching era.  With my revolting pedant hat on, a trip freight is a slighlty different beast, working out of a local yard to service an industry or group of industries.  A transfer freight is a working clearing traffic that has accumulated at a marshalling yard for another marshalling yard.

 

As has been said, the traffic is marshalled at the marshalling yard to facilitate working along and back along the branch.  At the terminus, the train will arrive, run around if necessary, and begin to shunt, leaving some wagons on the reception loop; those it has picked up on the outward journey and those it has yet to deliver on the return run.  Traffic for the terminus is then positioned where it is required.  A typical goods yard might have a goods shed road with an end loading dock, and a 'mileage' siding which might incorporate the coal merchants' cells. 

 

This requires a basic understanding of the types of traffic.  Very roughly, pre-Beeching railways were 'common carriers', obliged by their authorising Acts to take any freight traffic presented to them that could be accommodated within the loading gauge at a mileage rate determined by governement.  This traffic would be loaded and unloaded by the customer's employees, and brought to the loading yard/taken away from the delivery yard in his vehicles.  But railways were keen to promote services they could charge for, and TBCF (To Be Called For by the customer), and collection/delivery in railway road vehicles, which both involved loading and unloading by railway staff, used the goods shed road.  There would be a lockup for storage of items on hand overnight.  Add to this any specialised vehicles such as shocvans, insulated, fruit, and so on. 

 

Mineral traffic may have it's own road or be incorporated into the mileage facility, depending on the layout of the yard and how busy it was.  The household coal merchants had their own offices, storage cells/staithes/drops (on the NER and LYR) and the work was done by their staff.  A similar operation in principle was the 'Provender Store' for animal feed, usually owned by a local farmers' association or co-operative. 

 

A common feature is the 18 foot distance between the goods shed road and the mileage road, the turning circle of a horse drawn 4 wheeled cart and replicated by the 3 wheeled Scammell Scarab and similar 'mechanical horse' vehicles.  There will also be a weighbridge near the road entrance to the yard, and, in rural areas or towns with slaughterhouses, cattle pens with a washable platform surface, often associated with the end loading dock.

 

The pickup loco postitions the incoming wagons/vans, collects the outgoing traffic (mostly empties on most branch lines, more came in than went out), and moves any that have to stay either because they are required for outbound traffic or are mileage and not yet unloaded.  Failure of mileage customers to unload their stuff was common, despite demurrage being charged, as the demurrage worked out cheaper than the customer providing storage of his own.  'Specialist' wagons, anything other than standard 5-plank opens and 10 ton vans, were usually required for traffic elsewhere and might have to be dug out from behind other traffic.

 

A good bit of time in the WTT must be allowed for this work.  Usually, there is only the pickup guard to do the shunting, and there is little point in the loco working any faster than he can walk between the places he needs to be to change hand operated points, uncouple, and couple up.  Movements into roads where men are working, especially the shed, which the driver cannot see the inside of, must take place very slowly and with great caution.

 

As well as doing the shunting (larger yards will have shunters to help), the guard must calculate the new load and present it to the driver in the form of a 'load slip' which he signs, giving him the weight and speed the train is allowed to travel at (that of the slowest wagon), examine the train, and change the lamps on his van (and lights them if it is night, fog or falling snow, or there is a tunnel in the next section which requires them to be lit) before giving the driver the 'right away'.  The driver is responible for the loco lamps, which also have to be changed, though the fireman usually actually does this!  Depending on the actual yard layout, the loco may need to run around now instead of at the beginning of the work, or even several times during it!

 

At passing stations, much the same procedure is carried out, with the 'uninvolved' portion of the train left on a running line if there is no refuge siding or similar place to put it, and is sometimes between the loco and the portions being shunted.  Depending on the layout of the yards, the loco may run around to propel into the yard, or set back into it, or access from both ends to position/collect traffic.

 

Any private sidings on the branch are not part of goods yards, but unless they generate enough traffic for a trip freight will be shunted by the pickup as part of it's work.  Again, time must be allowed in WTT for this work to be carried out.  A colliery, quarry, china clay dries, or similar will usually be serviced by trip workings specific to them, but a dairy, depending on it's size, may generate traffic for the pickup or even tail traffic for passenger trains.

 

Goods yards in coal mining areas may not have household coal facilities, as household coal is obtained from landsale yards at the pits.  Many of the post 1947 customers will be NCB employees and entitled to an allowance of free coal, which they are responsible for collecting. 'Informal' local arrangements meant that the bulk of locally used household coal was obtained in this way.

 

My own layout, Cwmdimbath, breaks many of these 'rules' but is within the 'normal for the Tondu valleys' parameter.  There is a single goods road with no shed, only a platform, lockup and an office, which caters for all general merchandise traffic including mileage, and a private siding accessing a food canning plant and a galvanising/electroplating factory.  Traffic for the factory comes up on the pickup from Tondu goods, but the food canning is a trip job from Bridgend connecting to a class C main line express goods working from Bristol to Swansea and return,  Further down the branch, not modelled but the traffic comes up to the terminus to be run around, is a sawmill, an agricultural dealer's warehouse and small forge which takes in an occasional load of casting sand.  The pickup also deals with non-mineral traffic for the colliery, the exchange siding of which is modelled; this consists of pitprops, and the returning empties, and sand, gravel, bricks, pipes, and so on for the pithead baths and canteen building which the NCB promised in 1947 and which is now, sometime in the late 40s and early 50s, under construction.  The colliery also takes occasional delivery of cable drums as well, needed for the shaft cages and the overhead buckets line to the spoil heap.  As the product here is steam coal, it even takes in a very occasional mineral wagon of household coal for landsale.  All of this is handled by the pickup, and there is a path in the WTT for an afternoon pickup if required.

 

Because the WTT has to allow for the most complex shunting work possible to take place if needed, much pickup shunting, simpler and with less moves than that, could take place at the bucolic pace we often associate with it, and there may be some time in the pub involved, but if every siding including the privates has to be worked, and traffic dug out from behind other traffic, the pressure is on; the work must be completed at safe speeds in the allotted time before the signalman starts blowing whistles and pointing to his watch because a passenger is only 3 sections away and closing.  If, as at Cwmdimbath, the shunting may need to have stock left on the running line in the section, he must block back, which may delay the passenger even more, and have a knock on effect on the busy single track network of the Tondu branches.  At a through station on a double track main line, he can shunt the pickup on to one running line or another to allow traffic in both directions to pass.

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Very useful all replies so far, thanks, some confirming my thoughts.

 

My logic has been suggesting to me that if a goods yard is on a quiet branch line at a mid point through station, it can comfortably use the running line (and any passing loop at the station) for holding parts of the train not involved in the movements as the rest of the line's traffic is infrequent enough to allow it to do so.

 

If the branch line is otherwise busier, or we're on a busy multi track line, my thoughts are that there would have to be separate sidings and headshunt for the movements away from the running line.

 

The minimum would be two sidings and a headshunt. One of the sidings would be needed to put the guard's van and any rear wagons not involved in the movements out of the way, while other shunting moves to get out the outbound wagons then put in the inbound wagons from/to the 'customer' siding(s) are undertaken.

 

I'm not sure of the length of said holding siding or headshunt, bearing in mind that the length of track required would change (longer holding, shorter headshunt for early stations; shorter holding, longer headshunt for later stations). This presumes that the train would be marshalled in station order, first station at front, last station at back, with guard's van tailing, along the line to whatever terminus awaits.

 

Terminii would have differences due to the need to do running round more (to get the guard's van to the other end, for instance).

 

Of course, each location could differ considerably, but I'm wanting to confirm that need to put to one side the uninvolved portion of the train out of the way of marshalling movements meaning a certain minimum number of sidings are required (if to keep the running line clear), and perhaps minimum length of holding siding and headshunt?

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1 hour ago, Ian J. said:

I'm wanting to confirm that need to put to one side the uninvolved portion of the train out of the way of marshalling movements meaning a certain minimum number of sidings are required (if to keep the running line clear), and perhaps minimum length of holding siding and headshunt?

 

How busy is the running line?

 

If it's only seeing one or two trains an hour then you are probably fine leaving the train on the running line.

 

If like me.you are modelling a busy mainline which has a train every 9 minutes then you need space to put the train while not in use.

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It can be surprising how busy even a single line branch can be, with the consequence that goods trains end up crossing with passenger services at various of the stations on the branch - and therefore needing to be out of the way. This is especially so if the line serves industries of some kind.

 

Reading the story of the East Somerset & Cheddar Valley line in the 1920s & 1930s, which was a single line from Yatton to Witham via places including Axbridge, Cheddar, Wells, Shepton Mallet. There were about 20 trains (passenger & goods) in each direction on weekdays, some covering only part of the 32 mile route. There were numerous industries on the line, especially quarries.

 

The 1st goods train of the day from Yatton to Wells - just over 17 miles - left @ 4.45 and arrived @ 7.43 - i.e. 3 hours. Stops at some stations were relatively short - 10 minutes or so - while others like Cheddar were lengthier. This train crossed with the first passenger train from Wells to Bristol at Wookey station. Wookey had a goods loop with a headshunt. The working timetables for the branch marked each train crossing with an "X" and there were quite a number throughout the day.

 

Many of the stations along the line had passing loops and facilities for goods shunting off the main running line. This applied even to small places like Winscombe, for example. Larger places like Cheddar had extensive goods handling facilities that enabled goods trains to keep clear of the passenger workings.

 

Of course, not all branches were as extensive or as busy as the East Somerset & Cheddar Valley, but it gives an idea of how things might be organized.

 

Yours, Mike.

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As this knowledge is to be used for my S&P idea during its heritage era, it's less critical than if it were during its fictional national railway period. The need for me is to understand how to run a demonstration pick up freight in a heritage context with actual pick ups and set downs rather than just running through.

 

It would terminate at either end of the line, with one (or maybe two) through stops on the way (one up, one down maybe). I wanted to know enough to be able to set up the through stations goods sidings 'correctly', as well as set up the termination stations to allow the wagons to be varied before each demonstration run.

 

I may have enough to do that already, thanks to the replies given. However the more information I can get, the better I can judge what would feel 'authentic'.

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8 hours ago, Ian J. said:

As this knowledge is to be used for my S&P idea during its heritage era, it's less critical than if it were during its fictional national railway period. The need for me is to understand how to run a demonstration pick up freight in a heritage context with actual pick ups and set downs rather than just running through.

 

It would terminate at either end of the line, with one (or maybe two) through stops on the way (one up, one down maybe). I wanted to know enough to be able to set up the through stations goods sidings 'correctly', as well as set up the termination stations to allow the wagons to be varied before each demonstration run.

 

I may have enough to do that already, thanks to the replies given. However the more information I can get, the better I can judge what would feel 'authentic'.

 

The design of your goods yard is another important consideration aswell.

 

Most goods yards had their siding laid in the same direction for ease of shunting and would typically only be shunted by the loco for the pick up goods travelling in the right direction to be able to shunt them. If there was a pickup goods operating in the opposite direction aswell this train would usually only stop to drop off wagons.

 

 

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Local trip working was built around a variety of factors -

 

Frequency was very much influenced by the level and type of traffic on offer.  In most cases wayside stations would be served by no more than one freight trip daily (daily meaning Monday - Saturday although Saturday working was unusual from the mod 1950s onwards as traffic levels declined).  But quite often there would be no traffic for/from a  particular station every day of the week so the trip wouldn't need to call there.

But on the other hand some stations would need to forward traffic quite urgently so there would either be a second trip later in the day, or a maninline freight calling to pick up that traffic (mainly on busier routes but it did happen on single lines).

 

Station Order/Train Formation trip freights were usually formed (ie the way the wagons were arranged in the train) in what was known as 'station order'.  Very simply this meant that the wagons for each station were marshalled together and that portion of the train was arranged in the easiest/most convenient way for shunting at each station as the train reached it.  For example the wagons for the first calling point would be immediately behind the engine, the wagons for the second calling point would be behind those, and so on for subsequent stations while wagons which were picked up from each station would go in at the rear immediately ahead of the brakevan.  Shunting off the front was - as a rule of thumb - quicker than shunting off the rear (unless it was short train) so that was how the station order was arranged but sometimes it would be a mixture of front and rear.  And attachments might also require to be segregated (i.e. sorted into specific order and this could easily be done enroute with a less busy train or it would be done at a calling point with suitable space and time available to re-form the train.  Many trips worked to a destination where they turned round to go back to their starting point and they could if necessary be re-formed there.

 

Shunting at Intermediate stations.  Here the first thing to remember is that in the past on most routes the passenger train service was nothing like it is today - not only were trains less frequent but they didn't run to anything like the clock face pattern of timetable we have nowadays.  Thuse there could be long gaps between passenger trains and the freight services and trips would fit into those gaps.

How a station was shunted depended very much on its track layout (see Micknich's post above for an excellent example) but in most cases a train could most readily shunt any station only if it was travelling in the ideal direction.  For example on our local branch line there were two intermediate stations but the freight trip could only shunt one of them while travelling down the branch and could only shunt the other when going back up the branch.

 

The critical thing to remember at any station is that invariably the sidings weren't empty when the trip arrived there so the first job would inevitably be shunting any outbound wagons to both get them on the start of their journey and make space for new arrivals.  a complicating factor might be that some wagons were only part unloaded but there were others blocked by them that had to depart so shunting could at times be a complicated process.  But it was normally done quickly - trainmen didn't like to waste time and local staff wanted to get back to work dealing with the newly arrived traffic.

 

Inwards traffic had varying degrees of importance hence thu is would affect the way in which things were shunted and particularly where wagons were positioned if it was possible to get them to their ideal spot.  Asa general rule traffic for goods sheds was the most important and all being well would be positioned immediately at the goods shed.  But there might be urgent wagon load traffic for particular traders and the local staff would try to make sure that also got priority in being positioned ('spotted').  However it was fairly easy to move wagons, even loaded ones which weren't too heavy by a couple of men using pinchbars to get the wagon rolling.  So even if the trip didn't leave a particular wagon in exactly the right place it wasn't necessarily a problem for the local staff.

 

Standing the trip aside from passing trains.  The overwhelming majority of local goods yards didn't have space to stand a freight trip clear of the running lines and they didn't have that seeming favourite of many modellers - a shunting neck.  They were invariably shunted from the running line with no option to do anything else.  very occasionally you might find a refuge siding immediately adjacent to a yard (Lampeter was an excellent example of this) where part of a train could be stood aside during shunting work or a freight/trip could be held while a passenger train overtook or, on a single line - crossed it.  But otherwise it was matter of doing the job in gaps in the timetables or on busier lines standing the trip aside in a refuge siding (also called a layby siding on some parts of the railway) or possibly even getting it into a goods loop as these became far more common from the time of WWII onwards

 

Incidentally the junction station for our local branch is on a busy quadruple track main line route and it had no sort of headshunt or spur at all - not even long enough to stand a single wagon clear of the points.  So it inevitably had to be shunted from the running line (across a junction) although there was refuge siding very close at hand where part of the train. or all of it when needed, could be stood aside.

 

Hope that helps a bit.

Edited by The Stationmaster
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10 hours ago, Ian J. said:

As this knowledge is to be used for my S&P idea during its heritage era, it's less critical than if it were during its fictional national railway period. The need for me is to understand how to run a demonstration pick up freight in a heritage context with actual pick ups and set downs rather than just running through.

 

It would terminate at either end of the line, with one (or maybe two) through stops on the way (one up, one down maybe). I wanted to know enough to be able to set up the through stations goods sidings 'correctly', as well as set up the termination stations to allow the wagons to be varied before each demonstration run.

 

I may have enough to do that already, thanks to the replies given. However the more information I can get, the better I can judge what would feel 'authentic'.

 

There was some discussion of goods train shunting demonstrations on heritage lines quite recently, probably within this part of the forum. For me, the take home point was that such operations bear no relation to the way things were done in the days of the "traditional" railway, not least because of changed H&S requirements.

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7 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Local trip working was built around a variety of factors -

 

Mike, I hope you are keeping posts of this sort as text files ready to cut and paste into the forum and not typing everything out from scratch every time! Perhaps there should be a "Stationmaster FAQ" pinned topic with a general instruction to "look here first before posting your operational enquiry"!

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5 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

There was some discussion of goods train shunting demonstrations on heritage lines quite recently, probably within this part of the forum. For me, the take home point was that such operations bear no relation to the way things were done in the days of the "traditional" railway, not least because of changed H&S requirements.

Absolutely the case.  You can more or less completely forget loose shunting on a preserved railway because the staff just haven't got the necessary experience (and frequency of doing it) to carry it out safely.  Thus shunting invariably can only be safely carried out with vehicles attached to an engine with the wagons being fully secured before the engine is detached from them.  And that means each shunt will take a lot longer than it would have done being done the way the real railway did it.

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10 hours ago, Ian J. said:

As this knowledge is to be used for my S&P idea during its heritage era, it's less critical than if it were during its fictional national railway period. The need for me is to understand how to run a demonstration pick up freight in a heritage context with actual pick ups and set downs rather than just running through.

 

It would terminate at either end of the line, with one (or maybe two) through stops on the way (one up, one down maybe). I wanted to know enough to be able to set up the through stations goods sidings 'correctly', as well as set up the termination stations to allow the wagons to be varied before each demonstration run.

 

I may have enough to do that already, thanks to the replies given. However the more information I can get, the better I can judge what would feel 'authentic'.

As @Compound2632 says, this changes things significantly.

 

Most, if not all, heritgage railways don't run demonstration goods trains as traditional pick-up goods - there simply isn't enough time between the revenue-earning passenger services, which, by their nature, are much more frequent than in BR days. Generally a demonstration freight will run in a 'spare' passenger path - for example, if the railway runs a 'Sunday Lunch' train, the freight might use the same path on a Saturday. It'll often be run with a brake van on both ends (to avoid having to shunt at each end), and may well be fully-fitted, or at least through piped - indeed it will have to be if any passengers are carried (i.e. offering brake van rides, usualy for a small donation to help the wagon group funds)

 

I've been involved in a couple of pick-up goods at the MHR, which were done for photographic charters, on days when the normal public service wasn't running. Even with radios and a dedicated shunter, they take a long time - pretty much all day to do a full round trip, although that does include doing many of the moves several times for the benefit of the photographers.

 

Also, most heritage railway stations won't have a goods yard, or if they do it will be much smaller than original - generally, at many stations, yards will have been converted to loco and carriage works (e.g. Sheffield Park, Ropley, Havenstreet), or appropriated by the various other departments that need space - PW, S&T etc - at others the yards may well have been lost, sold off before preservation for industry/housing/car parks etc (e.g. Swanage). You tend to have to make do with whatever sidings you do have, and working around whatever is in them already!

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26 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Mike, I hope you are keeping posts of this sort as text files ready to cut and paste into the forum and not typing everything out from scratch every time! Perhaps there should be a "Stationmaster FAQ" pinned topic with a general instruction to "look here first before posting your operational enquiry"!

Stephen what I try to do is keep readily available links to all the threads where I post this sort of stuff  although I do vary the format of replies to suit the question(ner) because they might ask for things for slightly different reasons or in a different way

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I thank you all once again, but with particular thanks to Mike ( @The Stationmaster ) due to the wealth of information in there. Of particular note is the practice of putting outbound wagons at the back immediately in front f the guard's van, which I didn't know about. Many other things confirm my logic.

 

As regards running a pick up freight on a heritage railway, it will of course not be entirely accurate to historical reality, but then how much of any heritage railway is accurate to historical practice these days anyway?

 

The stations where the pick up goods would be worked on the S&P system will have had their yards arranged deliberately to accomodate it, and I think I will have it that they will have been configured so no movements use the main running line. As for not replicating such things as loose shunting, that's fine, bearing in mind they can't effectively be modelled anyway, so it would be shunted as per a model railway... :D

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3 hours ago, Nick C said:

Also, most heritage railway stations won't have a goods yard, or if they do it will be much smaller than original

That's the real nugget here - most heritage lines are strapped for space. Anything approaching an original goods yard in size seems to be rapidly taken over either for storage or for buildings in which restoration and maintenance work takes place.  They don't have a Swindon to send their stuff off for engineering :(!  What you don't get are lots of sidings with empty space - shunting operations, when they do happen, are often very complex affairs simply because of the amount of stock crammed in to individual sidings. The GWSR did a major shunt of this kind recently and it took a good deal of planning.

 

Perhaps the astounding exception is Kidderminster on the SVR - the carriage storage building is simply HUGE - you could easily get lost in there! The building can accommodate multiple whole rakes of carriages. But even they don't have bags of sidings for shunting goods wagons. Swithland sidings on the GCR is also quite substantial, but in addition to large buildings, the open sidings are simply stuffed with stock.

 

Yours,  Mike.

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Mature heritage lines which are well organised and have sufficient space and money (that probably doesn't mean many, possibly not any) could have facilities for storage already set up such that the old goods yards aren't full of stock. In my S&P fiction, this is one such line. They have access to an expansive old quarry site where they've put their stock sidings, so the various goods yards are relatively uncluttered. The fictional history wouldn't have had the running of demonstration freights happening overnight though, it would be something they were able to do after getting the rest of the line opened and the passenger/customer side of things comfortably settled in.

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2 hours ago, KingEdwardII said:

:rofl:

 

That made me laugh - I think you are describing a unicorn !!! One with wings too...

 

Yours, Mike.

 

Maybe not so much unicorn as rocking horse manure... ;)

 

As far as S&P goes, it's fiction was set up to allow it these possibilities. It's a little bit of Rule One in amongst the striving for authenticity.

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Whilst I understand that trains would be organised with wagons for successive stations down the line being located sequentially behind the locomotive and that some stations would be shunted by the pick up goods in certain directions depending on the layout of the station, I have spent a lot of time trying going through the WTT for Whitchurch to Welshpool and  Ellesemere to Wrexham.

 

Ellesmere was served by an Oswestry bound morning freight and an afternoon Whichurch to Ellesmere.  The local appears to have spend much of the afternoon shunting before returning to Oswestry double heading the afteroon Wrexham-Oswestry (via Ellesmere) freight.  There were freights in the opposite direction although they spent little time at Ellesmere so I assume most inbound or outbound traffic was handled by the freights originating in Whitchurch.  The Wrexham-Oswestry freights may also have supplemented this, although I have no evidence of that.

 

There was and afternoon Wrexham freight which originated in Ellesmere rather than Oswestry.  According to the WTT this served the Cadburys siding at pickhill.  Because it left before the afternoon Whichurch-Ellesmere freight but after the morning Whichurch to Oswestry I assume any traffic for Cadburys arriving in Ellesmere with this train.  This poses a couple of questions (in my mind at least):

 

 

I have assumed any traffic for Pickhill (or indeed other sidings/stations between Ellesmere and Wrexham) would be left in Ellesmere's up sidings.  It is also possible it arrive the previous day and sat in a siding in Ellesmere overnight.  Either way, how likely is that 

 

a) These wagons or vans for the Wrexham branch would form a distinct cut marshalled at the rear.  This would require locomotive to run round, detach these wagons plus brake van, shunt them into the up sidings, then reattach the brake van, run round before propelling the train into the down sidings, where the main goods year was located; or

 

b) The wagons are attached behind the locomotive.  It propels the whole train into the good yard, then draws forward again with just the Wrexham wagons, the loco runs round, shunts the wagons into the up sidings and then returns to the goods yard to shunt the inbound/outbound traffic from Whichurch/to Oswestry; or

 

c) the Wrexham wagons are simply left in the down goods yard along with any wagons specially bound for Ellesmere, and the locomotive for the Wrexham freight picks the wagons up from there, along with any others from Ellesmere that are destined for Wrexham when assembling the train.

 

Given that the freights on the Whitchurch to Oswestry section were timetabled to shunt at Ellesmere for a couple of hours, any of the above could have taken place.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by MDP78
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